12 replies to this topic

[Paul BlackJack Cady]

This is a broad question to ask on this forum but I know with all you "experts" I will get a lot more than I want..

Ok, so I'm writing this (wanna be) book right and I'm thinking to myself, hum.. I don't want to get into trouble so I'll pose this question online..

In this particular paragraph I'm describing how I keep my mech's limbs moveable and I make a mention that I only use Pennzoil gear lube and continue on about how Pennzoil has survived the test of time.

In another paragraph, I describe how this other character received her first aid training from the American red cross on Terra.

Now I'm sure I could change the exact name of things to an imaginary name but I'm curious as to the limit of usage in the written form and what the repercussions could/can be.

Exam 1:
Industrial Light & Magic
PPC production facility

Exam 2:
Crichton Institute & Design
Airframe & Power Plants

Edited by Paul BlackJack Cady, 09 December 2012 - 02:57 AM.

[Kaboodle]

What you're doing is trademark infringement, not plagiarism. Usually in works of fiction, fictitious entities are used to avoid trademark issues. This doesn't mean you HAVE to. Just keep in mind that there's a chance of litigation later if you don't get written permission to use the company's brand in your book. They may/may not win the case, since there's a viable argument for fair use of popular/basic cultural references. But litigation is bad either way.

Best bet (From a purely safe point of view) is to write a letter, explain why you're using the brand in a positive or negative light, and if they're against it, change it.

[dal10]

Kaboodle, on 08 December 2012 - 10:03 PM, said:

What you're doing is trademark infringement, not plagiarism. Usually in works of fiction, fictitious entities are used to avoid trademark issues. This doesn't mean you HAVE to. Just keep in mind that there's a chance of litigation later if you don't get written permission to use the company's brand in your book. They may/may not win the case, since there's a viable argument for fair use of popular/basic cultural references. But litigation is bad either way.

Best bet (From a purely safe point of view) is to write a letter, explain why you're using the brand in a positive or negative light, and if they're against it, change it.

actually, the stuff you are talking about is not against the law, however some time ago a series of court rulings created an artificial right to stop brand dilution, which is not part of trademark law. but that is just some technical details.

[Paul BlackJack Cady]

Kaboodle, on 08 December 2012 - 10:03 PM, said:

What you're doing is trademark infringement, not plagiarism. Usually in works of fiction, fictitious entities are used to avoid trademark issues. This doesn't mean you HAVE to. Just keep in mind that there's a chance of litigation later if you don't get written permission to use the company's brand in your book. They may/may not win the case, since there's a viable argument for fair use of popular/basic cultural references. But litigation is bad either way.

Best bet (From a purely safe point of view) is to write a letter, explain why you're using the brand in a positive or negative light, and if they're against it, change it.

see:

You just proved that I don't even know what I'm talking about!

[ValdnadHartagga]

Also, think about how those properties might change over a few centuries. The American Red Cross might not exist in the 31st century, because in BT lore the USA no longer exists as of 2014 (there can still be an American Red Cross, just not as we currently know it). If the character is military, the bulk of her first aid training should be from the military - volunteer civilian training might not make the grade (and speaking as a Medical Reserve Corps volunteer, the training you get as a civilian is just the tip of the iceberg!).

Think about your audience - the references you are making are to 19th-21st century American (namely, U.S.) brands and institutions, of which there are many in the BT universe already (Rhonda Snord's taste in music, General Motors, among others). Someone reading your story in Britain or even Canada might not get certain references. Maybe think about how those names might appear in 500 years - for example, according to Wikipedia, Pennzoil is owned by Shell. Who's going to acquire Shell?

Also a nitpick, I wouldn't think 'Mech actuators use much in the way of lubricants to achieve freedom of motion, as mechanical movement has moved away from hydraulics and gears towards myomers:



Any lubricant applied to a 'Mech joint would be pretty minimal and probably not worth mentioning the brand. With advances in materials technology, a lubricant might not even be needed - if there is, would a small, ancient American petroleum brand be manufacturing military-grade lube? Would it even be petroleum-based? I use dry graphite lubricant for a lot of things, as well as lithium grease.

I'm guessing you have a personal connection to some of these brands and want to pay homage somehow, but some lateral thought might be needed here.

Edited by ValdnadHartagga, 08 December 2012 - 10:38 PM.

[Paul BlackJack Cady]

ValdnadHartagga, on 08 December 2012 - 10:35 PM, said:

Also, think about how those properties might change over a few centuries. The American Red Cross might not exist in the 31st century, because in BT lore the USA no longer exists as of 2014 (there can still be an American Red Cross, just not as we currently know it).

I totally forgot about that! your right! thank you.

ValdnadHartagga, on 08 December 2012 - 10:35 PM, said:

Think about your audience - the references you are making are to 19th-21st century American (namely, U.S.) brands and institutions, of which there are many in the BT universe already (Rhonda Snord's taste in music, General Motors, among others). Someone reading your story in Britain or even Canada might not get certain references.

That is also very true! but if authors like King, Koontz and Crichton; who have millions of readers don't think it's important, then someone like me who currently only has 12 readers can't really afford to go multinational yet.

ValdnadHartagga, on 08 December 2012 - 10:35 PM, said:

Maybe think about how those names might appear in 500 years - for example, according to Wikipedia, Pennzoil is owned by Shell. Who's going to acquire Shell?

That's way too deep for me right now...KISS (keep it simple stupid) that's my motto

ValdnadHartagga, on 08 December 2012 - 10:35 PM, said:

Also a nitpick, I wouldn't think 'Mech actuators use much in the way of lubricants to achieve freedom of motion, as mechanical movement has moved away from hydraulics and gears towards myomers, any lubricant applied to a 'Mech joint would be pretty minimal and probably not worth mentioning the brand. With advances in materials technology, a lubricant might not even be needed - if there is, would a small, ancient American petroleum brand be manufacturing military-grade lube? Would it even be petroleum-based? I use dry graphite lubricant for a lot of things, as well as lithium grease.

No..just look at the image of the K2 next to this on the left...the amount of lube used in one leg is greater then the total amount of blood in the human body. there has been several instances in bt novels with regards to fluid leaking..
but not to insult you for offering up information your reference to dry graphite and lithium grease would also be outdated by your statement..

ValdnadHartagga, on 08 December 2012 - 10:35 PM, said:

I'm guessing you have a personal connection to some of these brands and want to pay homage somehow, but some lateral thought might be needed here.

No. again....I could have said Havoline, Castrol GTX..heck how about Moble1 synthetic ...
as with any writer I was trying to keep it grounded in what I know, just as any writer in Auckland, Paris, Tokyo might reference something/items from there location.

You have made some very good points, and I will consider them..

Thank you!

[Paul BlackJack Cady]

Also please reference:

http://www.wolfsdrag...20Blueprint.jpg


I can't find any myomer bundles, but I do know some mech's have them.

Edited by Paul BlackJack Cady, 09 December 2012 - 12:29 AM.

[Paul BlackJack Cady]

Were getting off topic so let me bring us back...

I don't really care about the technical side of anything that I'm writing about, how real it is or not, how plausible it is or not.

I wanted to know basically how much trouble I could get in by using words that are products in today's societies..
also while I'm on the subject, before I send my manuscript to an editor for polishing, word count, etc.etc.
is there anyone here that is in that line of work?
second: do I need to notify/ask permission from any entity that currently owns battletech/mechwarrior or trade names like Archer, Warhammer, Schrek PPC Carrier, Hans Davion, Federated Commonwealth??
If so, who would that be?

[Paul BlackJack Cady]

bump.

[cmopatrick]

hmmmm, if you are actually intending to publish as opposed to ff, i can only say it would need canon review and some kind of approval from the current BT names owner. there are some folks on the site that would know (have reportedly published BT, just don't remember who now), but i'm not sure they visit this forum. you might check with pgi, they have had to communicate with the rights holders and can almost certainly point you in the right direction.

if you do find out, please feel free to share enough for those who might have books that never went past online editions but still could (yeah, i had/have one...).

[Paul BlackJack Cady]

cmopatrick, on 10 December 2012 - 06:04 AM, said:

if you do find out, please feel free to share enough for those who might have books that never went past online editions but still could (yeah, i had/have one...).

Thank you

That is exactly why I mentioned that.. I have already sent emails to Michael Stackpole c/o stormwolf, Randall N Bills and Loren L Colemen c/o Catalyst Game Labs.
I know I need someones blessing on these works,but I'm just not sure who's.

It's kinda funny though that most of the authors were the games writers, developers or line directors.

[Paul BlackJack Cady]

cmopatrick, on 10 December 2012 - 06:04 AM, said:

if you do find out, please feel free to share enough for those who might have books that never went past online editions but still could (yeah, i had/have one...).

I found it! yea!!

here it is:
http://battlecorps.c...tic.php?page=14

[cmopatrick]

well done, thanks.