247 replies to this topic

[Kasiagora]

William Petersen, on 06 May 2012 - 10:28 PM, said:

Why? As long as they both have identical (or nonexistent) unused Hard-Points, what does it matter?

Because I seriously rock with a Grasshopper and people don't want to pay good hard-earned cash to get their mechs violenced by my hoopty.

[Rejarial Galatan]

Give me a giant fly swatter and we shall see just how hoopty you are

[Displacer]

Depending what sort of deal is/was made, we might have to pay for the Unseen.

[Rejarial Galatan]

@Displacer: um no.

[Kasiagora]

See my earlier post about the Unseen/Reseen mechs. If they've got the rights to the Unseen mechs, I wouldn't be against the Reseen versions being free and the Unseen versions just being a different skin that you pay for. It's the exact same mech, just a cosmetic difference that a lot of people (myself included) would shell out cash for. Like a top-hat and monocle! Only, you know, different.

[THELONGSHANKS]

Orzorn, on 06 May 2012 - 04:12 PM, said:

Here's the thing though, if made properly, there won't be a "better chassis" for mechs, because they all have different things they're good at. That means that buying them with cash does NOT confer and advantage, because you're buying something different, not better.

Christopher Dayson, on 06 May 2012 - 04:19 PM, said:

How does it lead to pay to win? We've already discussed how one mech at 100 tons within a technology level is pretty much the same as another mech of 100 tons. They have different customizability, but there is no advantage conferred to having one mech of the same weight class over another of that same class.

There is no pay to win as soon as there are free chassis for every weight tonnage (20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50, 55, 60, 65, 70, 75, 80, 85, 90, 95, and 100) respectively.

If we were being locked out of XL engines, and Ferro Fibrous, and endo-steel and lostech then yes, I would agree with you. However, we're not being locked out.

I can take an Atlas, throw an XL engine into it and free up tonnage for weaponry (Can't really get more armor onto an Atlas after all) so can add heat sinks, upgrade medium to large lasers, etc etc.

That's why there's no pay to win for offering chassis in cash shop as long as there is a free chassis at the same weight.



No I don't think that they won't make any money, I fully expect there to be both cash and in game currency, I just hope that the amount of cash per in game currency is reasonable and not 20$ for a virtual chassis.

I just think this whole argument is between guys with experience in FTP formats that are afraid of purchasing chassis with real money turning into Pay2win, and guys with TT experience who understand that with access to mechlab and equal technology bases, two chassis of the same weight are basically the same, just look different. It becomes an elaborate skin. Note: all weapons and technology will be available to everyone without paying! If better weapons and technology were real money exclusive, that would be pay to win. This is not what we are talking about. We are talking about rarer chassis, that already have an equal tonnage in game money mech represented. Then would just be an elaborate skin.

[William Petersen]

THELONGSHANKS, on 07 May 2012 - 01:14 AM, said:

I just think this whole argument is between guys with experience in FTP formats that are afraid of purchasing chassis with real money turning into Pay2win, and guys with TT experience who understand that with access to mechlab and equal technology bases, two chassis of the same weight are basically the same, just look different. It becomes an elaborate skin. Note: all weapons and technology will be available to everyone without paying! If better weapons and technology were real money exclusive, that would be pay to win. This is not what we are talking about. We are talking about rarer chassis, that already have an equal tonnage in game money mech represented. Then would just be an elaborate skin.

The only wrench in that is the hard points system.

Also, we don't know if XL, Endo Steel, and FF are going to *stay* all loosy-goosy, use-as-you-please. Right now they are, but it's something they need to test and upon which they need to iterate.

[Aelos03]

THELONGSHANKS, on 07 May 2012 - 01:14 AM, said:

I just think this whole argument is between guys with experience in FTP formats that are afraid of purchasing chassis with real money turning into Pay2win, and guys with TT experience who understand that with access to mechlab and equal technology bases, two chassis of the same weight are basically the same, just look different. It becomes an elaborate skin. Note: all weapons and technology will be available to everyone without paying! If better weapons and technology were real money exclusive, that would be pay to win. This is not what we are talking about. We are talking about rarer chassis, that already have an equal tonnage in game money mech represented. Then would just be an elaborate skin.

chassis and skins are two different things. If people want to be different there are skins for that and other cosmetics, i don't see reason why should one chassis be available to only buyers even if its not better.

[THELONGSHANKS]

William Petersen, on 07 May 2012 - 01:26 AM, said:

The only wrench in that is the hard points system.

Also, we don't know if XL, Endo Steel, and FF are going to *stay* all loosy-goosy, use-as-you-please. Right now they are, but it's something they need to test and upon which they need to iterate.

Ok hard point system makes it less clear cut. But I would rather have some more variety on the battlefield, and have some mechs actually be rare. With multiple variants for each chassis each with very different hardpoints, I don't think it will be that big a deal.

[Woodstock]

OhGilPin, on 06 May 2012 - 11:16 AM, said:

Individual 'Mechs and packs to be released slowly, common 'Mechs players get for free, rare 'Mechs players have to pay for, which theoretically means that the rare 'Mechs are rarer to see on the battlefield.

I hope this does NOT happen!

Real money should be for cutting corners ... speeding up progression. There should be no GOLD 'tanks' ... Sure if you want into your los-tech Atlas without earning the C-bills and faction prestige you should be able to buy it ... but that should not mean that that is the only route available to players to get that mech.

WoT and the GOLD tanks are horrible.

As for the OP ... I quite like your idea of themed releases of mechs. But I would want them to trickle into the game as and when they are finished. But that said a special bundle would be cool from time to time.

[Cruxshadow]

I like the idea that new model types coming out together like the new model year of cars. Having the rarer and special types coming out at random times would be a nice surprise also.

[Caballo]

Kasiagora, on 06 May 2012 - 11:11 AM, said:

I was thinking that after the game comes out and we start getting new mechs released as updates or DLC that it might be kinda cool to have them come out as group installments.

Example: The Ostmann Industries Pack. You hop on after a month of not seeing new mechs and suddenly they've added the Ostsol, Ostroc, Ostscout, and Ostwar all at once with press release data singing the praises (or lack there of) of these new mechs to be added to the forces of the innersphere.
Or the Urban Combat Pack. Similar situation, but this time it's an Enforcer. King Crab, and Urbanmech that all come out under overwhelming fanfare and applause.
Or the Team Banzai Pack. Close Combat has finally been implemented and to celebrate the devs have released the Hatchetman and the Axman upon us all!

Or alternatively, every couple of weeks you get these mechs individually as they're made. There's less waiting time, but also whenever they come out there will be a small rush of players swiping them up and there's less chance on each release of there being something that you've been waiting for.

I'm just wondering which of these people would prefer. Personally I wouldn't mind a little mix of both and I'm going to edit the poll question now to have that as an option.

I've read this post three times, and i found NO SIGLE PARAGRAPH ABOUT MONEY. The guy is talking about the RELEASE of the mechs once they are done, not about paying for those releases.

Everyone rushed into the fearfull pay-to-win situation, and the post is not talking about money.

IMO It would be nice to have the mechs released as packs when they have some kind of link between them: the OST series as you mentioned as example, Fast recon pack, Hard hitting mids, Four legged (as someone suggested before), The mighty couple of Warhammer-Marauder (if we reach to see them one day), Support mechs... you know. But when a single iconic mech turns real, such as the Templar, the Fafnir and the like, it would be not bad to have it released as a single mech.

Edited by Caballo, 07 May 2012 - 03:11 AM.

[100mile]

Rejarial Galatan, on 06 May 2012 - 12:01 PM, said:

that. is. not. balanced. Also, get off the Pay 2 win model. This game DOES NOT SUPPORT that, the devs said so. Premium mechs are a myth given what the devs said. Only fluff can be bought with real money...

exactly...your pretty smart for a Drac...

[Aelos03]

100mile, on 07 May 2012 - 03:15 AM, said:

exactly...your pretty smart for a Drac...

[TheRulesLawyer]

Mech releases should come in 3 forms.

1) A biweekly trickle of new chassis and variants, or maybe something like a new chassis every month and a new variant on the other weeks.
2) As expansion packs. For example when 'level 2' tech becomes available a large number of chassis should be updated with it along with a couple new chassis at the same time. Also when the clans come, it should be as an expansion pack sort of thing. Basically any time there will be a major change.
3) As bundles of already released mechs/variants. Make a bundle of all hunchback variants for example, or a scout mech pack, etc, etc. Slight discount on buy individually.

Edited by TheRulesLawyer, 07 May 2012 - 08:37 AM.

[James Heywood]

I wouldn't like this to suffer the way World of Tanks does with the horrendous gaps between new tanks being released. New mechs being added as they are completed or to coincide with certain dates etc. would be cool.

[KingCobra]

Look all you have to do is go on steam and play STO or DC online to see what is the model for F2P games.Look in there stores on these pages.
http://www.startrekonline.com/f2p

http://www.dcuniverseonline.com/

plus i have a feeling the game will be placed on steam for gameplay.

[Kasiagora]

Caballo, on 07 May 2012 - 03:01 AM, said:

I've read this post three times, and i found NO SIGLE PARAGRAPH ABOUT MONEY. The guy is talking about the RELEASE of the mechs once they are done, not about paying for those releases.

Yeah. I don't know how it happened, but I've been reading all of this anyway.
I like a lot of the ideas that TheRulesLawyer came up with. I hadn't considered variant releases. It may take a long time to model an entire mech from the ground up for release, but a couple of modifications to the skin and some time in a developer-only, no-hard-points version of the mech lab would be much quicker. That way we might not be able to put PPCs on the arms of a Catapult, but once they release the K variant which already has PPCs there, then we've got a version of the chassis with energy hard-points. I'm assuming that there will be some sort of hard-points since it'd been mentioned here that they'll be used. I just don't want anything as restrictive as what that one mechwarrior game that I only played for a half an hour (probably MW4).

I also would like to see the game released through Steam, but if it's not I'll probably tie it into my Steam account anyway.

Edited by Kasiagora, 07 May 2012 - 09:36 AM.

[Iron Harlequin]

Hardpoints will have restrictions



Also showing the size of the AC 20

[Vollstrecker]

There are numerous scenarios where having some chassis available for real money are not "Pay to Win" however, I don't think any of the proponents of that in this thread (including myself) are interested if the purchased chassis confers a true advantage.

I've personally been aiming to point out to people that are screaming "Pay to Win" at any difference of any sort, imagined or real, between a normal and "premium" chassis (such as my Guillotine/Grasshopper example).

Edit: I apparently have trouble marshaling thought and grammar while at work.

Edited by Vollstrecker, 07 May 2012 - 03:09 PM.