247 replies to this topic

[Halfinax]

Hrm, Rej. convenience (i.e. being able to buy something instead of having to grind for it) is a cornerstone of the F2P market. I agree no exclusive, or "premium" 'Mechs, but writing off one of the major routes of monetization for the devs by saying that convenience is the same as power is a bit silly. Basically every f2p game allows you to buy something instead of grinding for it. The problem arises when the ONLY way to get said item is by paying real money for it.

LordDeathStrike, on 07 May 2012 - 08:24 PM, said:

its common practice in non pay to win free to play to charge for "awesome" looking skins. in mwo the "awesome" looking skins are mechs, chasis, that have iconic status. these arent imbalanced since you can tune any mech in the mechlab as you like within its weight and hardpoint limits, but if you really want that special paintjob on that certain chasis, you might have to pony up $5.

i dont have a problem with this, as long as extra dmg ammo, special weapons, and mechs with unlocked or unfair hardpoint loads stay out of the premium content.

This is at least as silly of a suggestion. A skin is a skin. A chassis is not. Here are the key differences:

A skin is the texture/image wrapped around a 3d model. It provides nothing beyond appearances.

A chassis is a 3D model with specific game play properties attributed to it. It is not purely aesthetic unlike skins.

Edited by Halfinax, 07 May 2012 - 08:43 PM.

[Rejarial Galatan]

Halfinax, NEVER underestimate the power of purely vanity items to crack open wallets. Premium Paint Schemes, Faster XP gains, More Mech Bay Space, More C-Bills, Hula Girl for Cockpit, you know, stuff like this, will fly off the digital shelves in droves. I mean hell, go to STO and look at all the players wearing Star Trek The NExt Generation uniforms or Counselor Troi outfits or Enterprise uniforms, pure pure pure vanity items, hell, i shelled out 20+ bucks on uniforms alone for STO. We agree, in part, I think putting mechs or the weapons FOR them on the store is where this can go bad, but, I love the idea of fluff stuff

[Halfinax]

Rejarial Galatan, on 07 May 2012 - 08:45 PM, said:

Halfinax, NEVER underestimate the power of purely vanity items to crack open wallets. Premium Paint Schemes, Faster XP gains, More Mech Bay Space, More C-Bills, Hula Girl for Cockpit, you know, stuff like this, will fly off the digital shelves in droves. I mean hell, go to STO and look at all the players wearing Star Trek The NExt Generation uniforms or Counselor Troi outfits or Enterprise uniforms, pure pure pure vanity items, hell, i shelled out 20+ bucks on uniforms alone for STO. We agree, in part, I think putting mechs or the weapons FOR them on the store is where this can go bad, but, I love the idea of fluff stuff

I didn't argue that point at all. I said that one of the cornerstones is convenience, if you cut it out you remove one whole corner of the F2P market square...then it's just a market triangle. Not everyone wants to grind for every 'Mech/avatar/ship/tank (all relative to each game), and so you sell them the convenience of getting it now without the grind. Let me choose whether spending 5 hours grinding matches is worth it for me to get that Catapult K2, or if I'd rather spend 10 bux on it and have it now. It in no way lessens anyone else's experience, nor does it provide me with an unfair advantage. It just means I felt it was more worth my time to spend real money than to grind for virtual money.

[Rejarial Galatan]

Which is why I think the games currency is a MT buyable, to avoid putting the mechs/weapons on the market, but, again, till like Paul or Garth for example say for certain, we can just guess and circle debate all night.

[DecisivePickle]

Before I add my two cents to this discussion, I'll just note that I didn't read all 11 1/2 pages before me - only the first few, and then skipped to the end.

An interesting and seemingly successful F2P model shown in Tribes : Ascend has been to have two types of 'money' (like in many F2P games) - Gold [premium, real-money purchase, or gifted through promotional offers and whatnot] alongside XP [earned only through playing the game]. By purchasing gold with real money, your account is permanently upgraded to earn +50% xp (if I remember right, or could be +25% or something). Either gold or XP can be used to purchase new suits, weapons, upgrades, etc. However, improvements to each item (such as increased damage for a particular gun, more energy for your suit, etc) can only be purchased through XP. So, while new suits and new weapons can be purchased rapidly with cash, minor improvements that can make a decisive difference in gameplay can only be earned. And if you are short on money, everything can be earned, so nothing is restricted from you (aside from the XP bump).

[Aelos03]

DecisivePickle, on 07 May 2012 - 09:14 PM, said:

Before I add my two cents to this discussion, I'll just note that I didn't read all 11 1/2 pages before me - only the first few, and then skipped to the end.

An interesting and seemingly successful F2P model shown in Tribes : Ascend has been to have two types of 'money' (like in many F2P games) - Gold [premium, real-money purchase, or gifted through promotional offers and whatnot] alongside XP [earned only through playing the game]. By purchasing gold with real money, your account is permanently upgraded to earn +50% xp (if I remember right, or could be +25% or something). Either gold or XP can be used to purchase new suits, weapons, upgrades, etc. However, improvements to each item (such as increased damage for a particular gun, more energy for your suit, etc) can only be purchased through XP. So, while new suits and new weapons can be purchased rapidly with cash, minor improvements that can make a decisive difference in gameplay can only be earned. And if you are short on money, everything can be earned, so nothing is restricted from you (aside from the XP bump).

i'm going to try it and see how it works

[SirDenOfYork]

The prems. worked well in W.o.T.s i could see where it would work here and make the Devs. some money for their effort....

[Rejarial Galatan]

The devs get a paycheck whether or not you buy stuff from the MT store, so, how does this work then?

[Aelos03]

SirDenOfYork, on 07 May 2012 - 09:33 PM, said:

The prems. worked well in W.o.T.s i could see where it would work here and make the Devs. some money for their effort....

well i played wot and its sucks it forces you to pay and i bet devs don't want because then guys that want to play for fee wont enjoy and if they dont enjoy it they wont even consider buying something.

[oswin aurelius]

SirDenOfYork, on 07 May 2012 - 09:33 PM, said:

The prems. worked well in W.o.T.s i could see where it would work here and make the Devs. some money for their effort....

World of Tanks is Pay-to-Win. Premium ammo and chassis? Bad idea. Always.

That being said, the devs will never do that. They've SAID that they will never do that.

Personally, I hope they introduce 'mechs the same way League of Legends adds Champions, except have the C-Bill pricing more or less canon.

[Christopher Dayson]

The devs do /not/ get a paycheck if we don't buy stuff from the cash shop. How the heck you could even think that is beyond me.

Since they're not charging for a box, for the programming, /all/ income to recoup development costs will be coming from the cash shop. Therefor, the cash shop has to be successful.

By the way, selling 'space' in a mech, horridly broken, I can't think of a worst thing really. Look ma! I can put more heat sinks in than should fit cuz I have more criticals!

The simple fact is: Not all chassis are pay to win. Period. Nobody is saying that we should be able to buy clan mechs and clan tech on the inner sphere for real money, THAT would be pay to win, we're just saying there's nothing wrong with putting a chassis out of the same weight class.

Take for example the differences between a Jenner and a Wolfhound. Same weight, can be made the same speed, have exactly the same damage potential, can be made with the same armor. Neither is /better/ than the other, it's not a pay to win scenario, but, people would pay CASH for the Wolfhound, because it's an iconic light mech for those who follow the books.

Nobody is saying we want World of Tanks gold tanks. We're not asking for better. All we're saying is that there's nothing wrong if chassis of the same weight are put out as cash only, since a Jenner can still do the same thing as a wolfhound.

[Aelos03]

Christopher Dayson, on 07 May 2012 - 09:46 PM, said:

The devs do /not/ get a paycheck if we don't buy stuff from the cash shop. How the heck you could even think that is beyond me.

Since they're not charging for a box, for the programming, /all/ income to recoup development costs will be coming from the cash shop. Therefor, the cash shop has to be successful.

By the way, selling 'space' in a mech, horridly broken, I can't think of a worst thing really. Look ma! I can put more heat sinks in than should fit cuz I have more criticals!

The simple fact is: Not all chassis are pay to win. Period. Nobody is saying that we should be able to buy clan mechs and clan tech on the inner sphere for real money, THAT would be pay to win, we're just saying there's nothing wrong with putting a chassis out of the same weight class.

Take for example the differences between a Jenner and a Wolfhound. Same weight, can be made the same speed, have exactly the same damage potential, can be made with the same armor. Neither is /better/ than the other, it's not a pay to win scenario, but, people would pay CASH for the Wolfhound, because it's an iconic light mech for those who follow the books.

Nobody is saying we want World of Tanks gold tanks. We're not asking for better. All we're saying is that there's nothing wrong if chassis of the same weight are put out as cash only, since a Jenner can still do the same thing as a wolfhound.

Man you have no idea how wrong you are, f2p mens all gameplay content is available to me, its like i want to pilot a raven but i have to pay and you tell me hey drive janner its good as raven ***?!? i would be pissed i love wolfhound too and you wont let me drive it unless i pay?Let people use everything but let it be harder to get and i will buy skins and stuff and i want to earn all mech and weapons by playing.
Asking me to buy content is wrong from every aspect why ? because game is f2p why then ask me to buy freking mech.If its p2p then ok i won't have problem with that give me sum and i will buy it, but i know i will spent more then 100 euros on fluff things if game provide me with all content i need.

[Iron Harlequin]

[dymlos2003]

Rejarial Galatan, on 07 May 2012 - 08:53 PM, said:

Which is why I think the games currency is a MT buyable, to avoid putting the mechs/weapons on the market, but, again, till like Paul or Garth for example say for certain, we can just guess and circle debate all night.

Dude you can buy mechs with real money, you can see that in the mech lab video.

[Suicidal Idiot]

Hey Rej,

Something tells me that you're seeing that a small looking mistake, such as inadvertently making a small miscalculation such as 'chassis for sale' can turn this into a game where $ = enjoyment.

That in turn leads directly to our beloved MechWarrior yet going down the tubes for another decade or so.

If that is where you're coming from, I understand and agree.

But that won't stop me from joining the frenzy the moment a banner headline pops up here announcing "Only 100 Timber Wolf Chassis Available this year: Auction at this link"

Rej, I will embrace you as my sibkin when Clan Wolf arrives. Until then, I fear, we must battle.

[Wyzak]

There seems to be a poor understanding of how the hardpoint system works. From looking at the IGN pictures it's clear to me that not only are you having to place criticals a la TT, MW2, MW3 but you also have to keep in mind hardpoints along the same lines as MW4. This is what differentiates mechs of equal tonnage in addition to aesthetics. In the example above, Jenner versus Wolfhound, the mechs are similar only in tonnage, the Wolfhound primary variant has all energy hardpoints whereas the Jenner is about half energy half missiles. You can make both mechs have the same energy loadout in terms of energy weapon quantity if you only use small/medium lasers (or any laser that only use 1 critical.) But it's unlikely that any two chassis would have those energy hardpoints in exactly the same location. So it boils down to individual preference. I think people would pay for that freedom, and it's a reasonable way to keep MWO funded.

[Rejarial Galatan]

dymlos2003, on 07 May 2012 - 10:34 PM, said:

Dude you can buy mechs with real money, you can see that in the mech lab video.

since when in the blue bloody blazes is C-Bill a US Dollar, A Euro, a Yen or any other REAL WORLD MONITARY item?? Oh, and ya, yer wrong dude, I will use my c-bills to buy mah mechs the same as anyone else, but, see Aelos03 post in slot #233 and ANY of the posts I have made on the Pay 2 win model.
Oh, and JUST incase we are missing each other on the whole "REAL" thing, lets go to the dictionary:
re·al, real/ˈrē(ə)l/, /rāˈäl/
Adjective: Actually existing as a thing or occurring in fact; not imagined or supposed: "Julius Caesar was a real person"

NOT trying to be a troll, just making sure we are same page. As to you SI: Till we march as Wolves, I will die by your hand with honor as you shall at mine! <S>

OH side note on the whole Hardpoint system. After watching the Mechlab Dev break down, I am really starting to dig the hardpoint system as PGI has it.

[dymlos2003]

Rejarial Galatan, on 08 May 2012 - 07:53 PM, said:

since when in the blue bloody blazes is C-Bill a US Dollar, A Euro, a Yen or any other REAL WORLD MONITARY item?? Oh, and ya, yer wrong dude, I will use my c-bills to buy mah mechs the same as anyone else, but, see Aelos03 post in slot #233 and ANY of the posts I have made on the Pay 2 win model.
Oh, and JUST incase we are missing each other on the whole "REAL" thing, lets go to the dictionary:
re·al, real/ˈrē(ə)l/, /rāˈäl/
Adjective: Actually existing as a thing or occurring in fact; not imagined or supposed: "Julius Caesar was a real person"

NOT trying to be a troll, just making sure we are same page. As to you SI: Till we march as Wolves, I will die by your hand with honor as you shall at mine! <S>

OH side note on the whole Hardpoint system. After watching the Mechlab Dev break down, I am really starting to dig the hardpoint system as PGI has it.

I'm going to apologize in advance. Sorry to disappoint but...



You can buy mechs with MC. Which is what you get with real cash.

[Rejarial Galatan]

time to circle like a vulture. Explain me this then. IF what they say is correct, and we can buy C-BILLS, why would we need the MC? Can we get someone in the loop to explain? No offense to players on this, speculation isnt whats called for here, so, I ask any dev if they can clear this up please?

[dymlos2003]

Rejarial Galatan, on 08 May 2012 - 09:17 PM, said:

time to circle like a vulture. Explain me this then. IF what they say is correct, and we can buy C-BILLS, why would we need the MC? Can we get someone in the loop to explain? No offense to players on this, speculation isnt whats called for here, so, I ask any dev if they can clear this up please?

I can tell that this model is exactly like the model in League of Legends, where you can buy heroes with both in-game currency and real cash currency and vanity items with real cash.

You can buy a boost to how much cbills you will receive a game. Which is useful for repairs, weapons(equipment), and mechs as well. As you can see in the videos and screenshots you can only buy equipment with cbills. If you want a certain mech right away though you can use MC to buy it instead of Cbills.