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Mechs released as packs.


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Poll: Mechs released as packs. (247 member(s) have cast votes)

How would you like to see mechs released?

  1. Wait longer for themed mechs to be released all at once. (11 votes [4.45%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 4.45%

  2. Wait less and have new mechs trickle into the game as they're created. (93 votes [37.65%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 37.65%

  3. A little bit of each. If a couple of things coincide then so be it, but don't leave us waiting. (143 votes [57.89%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 57.89%

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#61 Rejarial Galatan

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 01:49 PM

NEVER EVER underestimate ppls desire to pay for vanity. I am all for vanity items and efficiency, in terms of speeding up the xp gain by paying 2-3 bucks a crack <limited time chips for xp of course> but, in no way shape, form function fasion should a mech or a weapon be available for real money, thats when the pillar of, its SKILL that makes the difference is broken. and PGI wont do that.

View PostChristopher Dayson, on 06 May 2012 - 01:46 PM, said:

I didn't shoot myself in the foot at all. I've proven without a doubt that it isn't a pay to win situation based on the data we have available to us.

As to what mech's have what total hard points and of what type? We don't know, none of us do, because the only information they've told us is that mech's will have more hard points than their stock configuration suggests. More.

Even if it were identical, it's still give and take, and still a cosmetic/playstyle choice rather than play to win.

wrong. the INSTANT you pay for a mech with REAL $ its pay to win. period.

and now, your troll bait is gone dayson.

#62 Ethan Kell

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 01:52 PM

View PostRejarial Galatan, on 06 May 2012 - 01:49 PM, said:

wrong. the INSTANT you pay for a mech with REAL $ its pay to win. period.


That's just like, your opinion, man.

#63 Christopher Dayson

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 01:54 PM

I fail to see how it's pay to win when I am paying for a mech that is worse than what I get for free by your own schematics...

Sounds like I'd be paying to lose. Or, more perhaps, paying for the cosmetic difference of another chassis.

EDIT: And please do not call me a troller or flaming because I am not, I have been nothing but polite throughout this thread. Just because we do not agree does not make either of us a troll nor flamer. Thank you.

Edited by Christopher Dayson, 06 May 2012 - 01:55 PM.


#64 Phoenixfire

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 01:57 PM

So I have a 50 hour a week career, a family and other priorities and I should not be able to pilot my favorite ride because I can only play 3-4 hours a week and can't grind the c-bills needed to get it in a timely manner. I am not asking for "premium content." I just want a way to get what every other player can get in a decent amount of time on my play schedule. If that means I have to pay for a mech that I want then, so be it.

#65 Ethan Kell

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 02:02 PM

Rej, I just want to say that I totally respect you and your opinion. I simply do not agree. It's nothing personal and I certainly do not mean for you to feel insulted.

At the end of the day what *we* think is unlikely to matter. They've probably already got a good idea of how they're going to make their money and what they intend to do if they don't pull in what they need to.

#66 Iron Harlequin

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 02:03 PM

Dayson, while you spout the nonsense of "purely cosmetic" I'd like to point out that a pilot using that logic would feel rather silly being proven wrong.

(pardon my copy paste from Sarna)

Take your 100 ton King Crab, Armament thats just your weapons.


now for the opposition

Berserker

Armament
would you like to explain to the pilot of the beserker how his Hatchet is "purely cosmetic" after its buried in your cockpit?

Edited by Iron Harlequin, 06 May 2012 - 02:04 PM.


#67 Christopher Dayson

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 02:04 PM

The hatchet is a melee weapon, and melee weapons are not allowed in the game at this time: In essence, that's lots and lots of cosmetic non-sense in that hatchet.

Also: Hatchet? Hits as hard as ONE of the AC-20's, I got two 'hatchets' that can hit you at 270 meters ;)

EDIT: I assume that when hatchets are viable weapons, so will punching and kicking, at which case I don't want a king crab punching me in the cockpit either.

Edited by Christopher Dayson, 06 May 2012 - 02:07 PM.


#68 Ethan Kell

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 02:06 PM

View PostIron Harlequin, on 06 May 2012 - 02:03 PM, said:

Dayson, while you spout the nonsense of "purely cosmetic" I'd like to point out that a pilot using that logic would feel rather silly being proven wrong.

(pardon my copy paste from Sarna)

Take your 100 ton King Crab, Armament thats just your weapons.




now for the opposition

Berserker

Armament would you like to explain to the pilot of the beserker how his Hatchet is "purely cosmetic" after its buried in your cockpit?



But the question becomes.... are either of them superior to the Atlas that we already know is going to be available to us? If the answer to that is "no" then Drayson's argument stands.

*edit* but I got to thinking about the King Crab vs. Berserker argument anyway.... the Berserker as an XL engine, which means that it had better destroy the King Crab before it get shreded by those A/C-20's. The only weakness the King Crab has in this fight is an annoyingly small ammo bay, which could be dealt with in the 'mech bay.

Edited by Ethan Kell, 06 May 2012 - 02:09 PM.


#69 Christopher Dayson

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 02:12 PM

Situationally better at best, which already exists between variants and whatnot. Which is why it's really a cosmetic change imho.

#70 Orzorn

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 02:12 PM

Did everyone in this thread forget about hardpoints? You know, the things that would make a King Crab and an Atlas just about as different as possible? Get back to me when "purely cosmetic" means that an Atlas actually has ballistic hardpoints in its arms.

#71 Christopher Dayson

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 02:14 PM

Nobody knows what hard points are where yet Orzorn. Hard points still do not necessarily provide an in game advantage, they provide a play style difference. These are good things to have differences.

Different != Better as was said before.

Given that arm armor is weaker than torso armor, I'm not sure I'd want all my primary weaponry on the arms or consider that an advantage.

#72 Vollstrecker

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 02:15 PM

View PostChristopher Dayson, on 06 May 2012 - 01:46 PM, said:

As to what mech's have what total hard points and of what type? We don't know, none of us do, because the only information they've told us is that mech's will have more hard points than their stock configuration suggests. More.


Oh, no doubt. I didn't say that was how it would work or anything of the sort, I was saying there could be a legitimate concern, is all. :)

#73 Iron

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 02:23 PM

View PostOrzorn, on 06 May 2012 - 02:12 PM, said:

Did everyone in this thread forget about hardpoints? You know, the things that would make a King Crab and an Atlas just about as different as possible? Get back to me when "purely cosmetic" means that an Atlas actually has ballistic hardpoints in its arms.
What happens to the crab just beeing short range when someone puts a couple GR in the arm's of this thing.so much for being the same because they are a hunderd tons

#74 Orzorn

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 02:24 PM

View PostChristopher Dayson, on 06 May 2012 - 02:14 PM, said:

Nobody knows what hard points are where yet Orzorn. Hard points still do not necessarily provide an in game advantage, they provide a play style difference. These are good things to have differences.

Different != Better as was said before.

Better is subjective. What is better for one might be worse for another.

Quote

Given that arm armor is weaker than torso armor, I'm not sure I'd want all my primary weaponry on the arms or consider that an advantage.

Personally, I would prefer to have the weapons in my arms, because that allows me a greater range of movement with those weapons. I can bring them to bear faster and in greater angles than if they were on my torso.

#75 OhGilPin

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 02:28 PM

View PostOrzorn, on 06 May 2012 - 02:12 PM, said:

Did everyone in this thread forget about hardpoints? You know, the things that would make a King Crab and an Atlas just about as different as possible? Get back to me when "purely cosmetic" means that an Atlas actually has ballistic hardpoints in its arms.


Im not 100% familiar with all the variations of the Atlas, but it is confirmed that the 'Mechs will have alternate variants.

#76 Iron Harlequin

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 02:31 PM

If the devs were under the impression that chassis are just cosmetically different, then why do any of the mechs looks different? Why not just make them all look the same? All the light mechs have the same model, medium mechs have a different model but still the same for the entire weight class, etc. if they were cosmetic only, then whats the point of them going to all the trouble of expending their effort making them all look so different. they've probably taken into account any number of arguments involving "well why would i want that mech over the one i already have?"



I mean c'mon, where on a catapult are you going to put a heavy gauss rifle? the dragon has room for it, but the catapult does not. they clearly have different hardpoints.

#77 Christopher Dayson

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 02:34 PM

View PostOrzorn, on 06 May 2012 - 02:24 PM, said:

Better is subjective. What is better for one might be worse for another.


Personally, I would prefer to have the weapons in my arms, because that allows me a greater range of movement with those weapons. I can bring them to bear faster and in greater angles than if they were on my torso.


Yep and this is yet another proof that diversity is good, what is 'better' for you may not be 'better' for me, etc. There's a lot of sides to these coins, and that's why I am of the feeling that having chassis for sale is not pay 2 win since weight is weight.

True hardpoints /may/ be a cause for concern, but that just creates more diversity.

For example: King Crab we know has two ballistics hard points in it's arms, we know this, because it has 2 AC-20's there. You could easily swap out the AC-20's for Gauss Rifles, or AC-10's and use that weight elsewhere.

We don't know if there is a ballistic mount on the Atlas's arm where the PPC goes now. It could be there, it also might not be, we don't know. Even if it's not there we do know there are multiple missile mounts, so that instead of 2 gauss rifles, the Atlas can load in two LRM-20's instead.

Not precisely the same loadout, but, damage potential is pretty much on par between the two (Going by pure TT stats anyways). For someone who loves a missile boat, the Atlas is clearly the 'better' 100 tonner, for someone who prefers gauss the King Crab is clearly the 'better' chassis.

It all sort of proves my point, offensively weight tends to determine max firepower as there are multiple choices between ballistic, missile, and energy which makes all chassis of any given weight a cosmetic or play style difference over any other chassis of that same weight and /not/ pay 2 win.

Technology types being equal of course.

View PostIron Harlequin, on 06 May 2012 - 02:31 PM, said:

If the devs were under the impression that chassis are just cosmetically different, then why do any of the mechs looks different? Why not just make them all look the same? All the light mechs have the same model, medium mechs have a different model but still the same for the entire weight class, etc. if they were cosmetic only, then whats the point of them going to all the trouble of expending their effort making them all look so different. they've probably taken into account any number of arguments involving "well why would i want that mech over the one i already have?"



I mean c'mon, where on a catapult are you going to put a heavy gauss rifle? the dragon has room for it, but the catapult does not. they clearly have different hardpoints.


Where am I going to put gauss rifle? How about where the PPC's go *shrug*. We don't know the hard points, and there is catapults with ballistics hard points as variants.

As to why they have different models, cuz, it's the IP and people like looking unique. Why would they gimp themselves in such fashion as to make every mech look identical in it's weight class?

#78 Gun Bear

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 02:38 PM

I think the formula that is running works, every 2-3 weeks a new 'mech is released to much fanfare an we all speculate on what comes next.

#79 Phoenixfire

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 02:45 PM

I think everyone is taking cosmetic too literally. It is being used in the argument that paying for a mech in cash is tantamount to Pay 2 Win.

One argument says that it is not Pay 2 Win because no matter what hard points you are given, all mech's in the same weight class have approximately the same damage output and armor protection(for their role) and there is no advantage given for buying a mech in cash(as long as all mechs are also available for ingame c-bills)

The other argument says that any mech or weapon bought with cash automatically makes the game Pay 2 win and not Free to Play. This argument states that being able to buy a mech or weapon with cash immediately gives an advantage to players with more money.

The issue boils down to "premium content" or can all players get access to all equipment whether or not they use cash or in game c-bills. As I stated before that I think all mechs, weapons and fluff should be available to all players in both cash and in-game c-bills. This allows more casual players access to tech that other players get faster because they play more. I believe that this truly makes skill the only determinate in a match because everyone has access to all tech, even the casual player who can't grind for c-bills.

Edited by Phoenixfire, 06 May 2012 - 02:46 PM.


#80 Insidious Johnson

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Posted 06 May 2012 - 02:49 PM

Mechs will start pouring out according to canon most likely. Since it is a sim, the immersive thing to do is release (the mechs they are going to do) by dates according to sarna.net as closely as possible for future mechs. As for past stuff that either makes it in or doesn't? Who knows.





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