457 replies to this topic

[Ashla Mason]

qultar, on 26 November 2012 - 09:51 PM, said:

http://mwomercs.com/...lan-ghost-bear/

you have to see that none of the groups are flawless

So, Are you speaking of the IS, the Clans or both?

[qultar]

Ashla Mason, on 26 November 2012 - 09:56 PM, said:

So, Are you speaking of the IS, the Clans or both?

All of them have there problems IS and Clan
The other thing is that not all Clans are the same
Trying to group up all the clans is like grouping up all of the IS

[Markkus]

GabrielKnight, on 26 November 2012 - 10:53 AM, said:

Sigh. If only the Timberwolf weren't such a sexy beast!

Steal One.

[Ashla Mason]

qultar, on 27 November 2012 - 07:36 AM, said:


All of them have there problems IS and Clan
The other thing is that not all Clans are the same
Trying to group up all the clans is like grouping up all of the IS

Pretty much.

Draconis combine: Suffers from strict adherence to philosophies that have become outmoded and attempts to move beyond them have met with resistance from a signifigant portion of their society (even when these new tactics and strategies prove supperior).
Free Worlds League: Crippled by it's democracy, the FWL only presents it's self as a true militry power when it is invaded, and has suffered from dozens of civil wars beteen it's constituent regions.
Cappellan confederacy: Basically north Korea with a handful of elite units and an incredibly sloppy intelligence branch (Can't take out the target in the safe house? Blow up the block.)
Lyran commonwealth: Incompetent military that would have collapsed long ago if it wasn't for their incredible economy supplying them wtih stupid ammounts of assault mechs and mercenaries.
Federated commonwealth: Can't keep their regional leaders from launching wars across their borders that they can't sustain and ignoring more pressing matters.

[Vanguard319]

I suppose it would depend on the clan, Like the Smoke Jaguars were undeniably bloodthirsty, wheras the Wolves were not big on formality and generally not out to conquer the Inner Sphere before 3057. I like the Jade Falcons myself since they generally value honor, and for all you Wolves who would use the refusal war to challenge this, I would point out that Vandervahn Chistu paid the ultimate price for his unclanlike killing of Ulric Kerensky.

[Jaroth Corbett]

You know what always amazes me is how someone starts a thread, then idiots who are completely against what the thread is about, post in it. Why do people like the Clans? This thread was created for pro-Clan people to post why they like this particular faction not for some idiots to start flaming especially since he put a disclaimer.

Ragor, the Clans' methods are the same as everyone in the IS. The DC, the FC, the FWL & the CC all have their own agendas & wish to subjugate the other realms. The Coordinator of the DC would like the entire IS to hail him as their leader as would the Emperor of the CC etc. etc. The Clans just have better equipment with which they do it with. Why do you think border worlds get so much action?

Try that nonsense somewhere else.

As to the actual thread, I like the Clans because the best person for the job has to fight to get it & fight to keep it. No matter how well you are liked, or how connected you are, if you do not perform, you do not progress.

Edited by Jaroth Winson, 20 January 2013 - 03:37 AM.

[Damion Wolf]

You really have to understand the Clans to find a reason to like them beyond their shinier aspects. For the uninitaited, the advanced technology, exquisit skill, prowess and lack of contractions is something new and excotic. They strive to be the best and to do more with less as a matter of pride and honor to themselves and their clan. What's not to become enamered by?

Then you start to get into the lore of BattleTech. For many of us, the Clans were our intro into the universe (MW2, MW3, Clan Tech spamming in other games). When I first played MW2 I had no idea what any of it meant. It really was another language to me. So when I really began getting into the universe, the Clans weren't really connected to it in my head. I started out near the end of the Grey Death Saga where they defended Defiance Industries from a rogue Davion commander. But what do I like about them?

They strive for perfection, although they are not perfect.

General Kerensky lead the remains of the Star League Defense Force into exile to prevent the Great Houses from using it against each other in an endless series of wars. His intentions were just but his goal failed. The Inner Sphere tore itself apart. Was it the right decision for him to make? Would he have been able to keep order if he pulled a Victor and started his own Hegimony with a monopolly on Things That Hurt People? Could it have saved the Inner Sphere three hundred years of conflict? Probably not.

When he reached their new hame, his forces were struck with much of the racism and many of the hardships that they faced in the Inner Sphere and civil war soon followed. To save what was left, those still loyal to the General's dream escaped to their new home and rebuilt.

To keep themselves from becoming the thing that they escaped from, and to preserve life and technology, the General's Son, Nicolas Kerensky, formed a new society. This was the genesis for what would later become the Clans. They would be build around a strict honor system and rules of war that were purpose designed to limit the loss of life, irreplacable material and precious technology. Intead of fighting unlimited warfare, they fought proxy battles for an objective and each commander bid as few forces as they thought they needed, thus keeping it as fare to both parties as possible. The fewer forces you used to take out your opponent, the more glorious the victory for you. The more you used, the less your glory. In this way, the truely great commanders and soldiers quickly rose to the top.

It was deemed that nobody who was not fit for the job of leadership would command. Those who wanted leadership had to earn it via battle and maintain it via battle. Leaders actually lead their Warriors into fights on the front line, shoulder to shoulder, because if they did not then somebody would think them weak. If you are weak, then you will have your position taken from you by somebody who is strong.

Just as stated earlier, conflicts in the Clan society last a matter of hours and are decided by the skill of the leaders (in deciding the battlefield, what they will defend with or, if attacking, what they will bring to the contest to counter the defender's advantages), the skill of the Warrios and the skill of the training.

Only the best was wanted. Thus began the selective breeding process, referred to now as the Clan eugenics program. And to support this Warrior culture there must be a workforce. That is were the freeborns come into play.

In Clan society, the likelyhood of a lower castman being killed by war is practicly nonexistant. That is one of the reasons why the Total Warfare unleased upon Smoke Jaguar was so devastating to moral. Sure they have a low value for individual human life but they also abdore waste of any kind. Killing a lower castman is morally wrong because it is wasteful, not because death itself is a taboo. And if a Clansman of any cast is captured by a rival clan (taken bondsman) then they work just as hard to prove that they are every bit as worthy to their new clan as to their old.

One of the reasons why Turtle Bay happened was because, in Clan Society, for a lower castmen to even touch a weapon was a smack in the face for everything that the Warrior caste stood for. The Warriors protected the other castes. So when the citizens rose up against them and took weapons to the streets, the Clanners were confused, enraged and aghast. This kind of thing does not happen in Clan society. They were losing irreplacable Warriors to their own lower castemen! So it was deemed more effective to just kill them all and save their Warriors.

For the reccord, when the upper leadership of the Smoke Jaguars found out what had happened (ie. the Khan), they were outraged. It had clearly spiraled out of control to the point that they bombarded the city. That was NOT what they wanted to happen but they couldn't admit to losing control. So to save face they sucked it up. If they had done anything else then they would have come across as weak - a death nail for any good Clan.

A Clan Warrior would end his own life on the spot if his Khan told him to with no questions asked. For them, honor is taken as seriously as anything can be (at least it was until the ***** era). Fighting the Inner Sphere wore away their resolve toward the RoE but even Warriors taken captive by the Inner Sphere served their new masters as loyally as they would any other. A society that can breed (yes, literally breed) that kind of selfless services is truely something special.

Yes, the Clans are a totalitarian people. No, there are not many freedoms enjoyed by the lower castes (at least not in the way we know it). And yes, the average Clanner (trueborn or otherwise) really believes in the ideals of the Clans and is, on average, happy in his or her life. Is it perfect? Hell no. Is it the root of all evil? Not at all. It's just different.

But all things change with time. After the *****, you really didn't see Clanners squaring off against their foes in one-on-one honorable combat. Instead, they just maul your *** with maximum lethality. So enjoy that scary, scary thought. The Clan Invasion was them hitting the Inner Sphere on easy mode.

I love the Clans. I love the idea of dedicating yourself to something so completely that you would literally fall on your own sword for it. I love it in the same way that I respect Bushido. There is a reason you don't ever accuse a Clan Warrior of having no spirit... at least not more than once! They have a love - no, a lust for life and accomplishment. They live and are content only if they are moving toward their objective. They love their language and hold it sacred (yes, I'm a sap for the spoken word). And to them, words mean something. A Clanner will only ever say what he or she means... and they will mean what they say. No fluff. No smoke. No deception. What you see is what you get.

The way it should be.

[Terran123rd]

Because, for all their flaws, their society is just so d@mned interesting.

And their 'mechs actually look like walking tanks.

[Csypher]

Skill = Rank
Honor = life

Warrior till the end.
do i need to say more.

[Pariah Devalis]

There is a nobility to the clans. Perhaps a misguided nobility, but it is present. Individuals strive to be the best they can be, for the betterment of both themselves and the clan as a whole. They seek to act with honor, in a way giving them a sort of knight like presentation, except with their own form of chivalry.

Sure, the technology they have is fantastic, but it was also written to coexist with a minimum of waste. Of one on one engagements that tested the skill of the pilots.

Furthermore, how ethically questionable any given Clan is depends on the clan itself. I would not say that a primarily Warden vs Crusader approach determines this, as my personal favorite, Clan Nova Cat, was known for being particularly informal and low on oversight when it came to its non-warrior castes, and took a respectful, light handed, and tactful approach to how they handled the inhabitants in worlds under their auspices, even before they went from officially Crusader to Warden.

That said, the warden/crusader differences add an additional layer of depth to a given clan. While I generally detest the crusader approach, I can at least understand that it is done with the best of intentions. Crusaders truly believe they are trying to do good for all by taking the Inner Sphere, as they honestly believe they know what is the best action for the peoples of the Inner Sphere. Meanwhile, the Wardens only want to win because, honestly, they believe that if they do not the people of the Inner Sphere would suffer greatly at the hands of the Crusaders, and would therefore be better off under their protection. I tend to agree with this sentiment. Of course, it all assumes a Clan is going to win at all.

I am not saying it is not an egotistical standpoint from either side, but there are nuances and an abundance of good within the clans that are quick to be ignored. And, frankly, the people who immediately lump the vast majority of clan players as only wanting to play clans for the tech disgust me. They are most certainly not an expert on that subject, and opinions as fact bother the heck out of me. Keep their assumptions out of my killzone, so to speak.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 28 November 2012 - 05:42 AM.

[guardian wolf]

Ragor, on 26 November 2012 - 11:12 AM, said:

I had quite the same experience regarding my stance towards the clans like it was described in the OP.
-snipped for brevity sorry dude-

CRUSADER MINDSET, CRUSADER CRUSADER CRUSADER... Come people how many times do I have to explain this?

[Hayashi]

I like the way how many of the clanners embrace their destiny, in a sense. Those who are warriors striving to be the best warriors. The best scientists striving to be the best scientists.

As a whole I dislike the caste system because I don't think it accurately classes people, and people with aptitudes more suited to other roles will be shoehorned into the wrong roles by birth. Genetics is one thing, but life experiences and mutations will account for variation even with genetics held as a constant. But even so, the way most clanners adapt to be the best they can be within their role - that I respect. People in reality tend to want to strive to be people they really cannot be - lack of aptitude, character mismatches etc, and do often end up doing a fail job of being who they can be, since all their time was wasted chasing after impossible goals that they refuse to acknowledge are impossible for them.

Call it a love-hate relationship. Overall I don't really identify with clanners, but that's one thing I like about them - more so than overpowered weaponry (which is a direct result of their scientists striving to be the best they can be - causing technological progress beyond what is possible in the Inner Sphere, even though the scientist caste isn't a particularly respected one).

[VoodooLou Kerensky]

Eye Lik da Clans Cause I can shoot the guns more before I shut down and I dont haf to be stupid and put weapins in my arms.

[Kurayami]

because is design aside from those from anime looks like crap and clan ones are sexy.

[dal10]

Kurayami, on 28 November 2012 - 10:09 AM, said:

because is design aside from those from anime looks like crap and clan ones are sexy.

no they are not... most will probably have worse hitboxes than the atlas did prior to its head being ungigantized

[BoerInBeton]

Some very good answers here, especially from Hayashi, Pariah and Damion Wolf (in particular). I'll type a bit of a longer reply later when it's not 1AM, but that did give me some food for thought.

[Sid Solis]

i say read some of the books and you'll understand how awesome the Clans are.....tho i favor Mercs....Clan tech is still boss

[Ashla Mason]

HlynkaCG, on 28 November 2012 - 09:59 AM, said:

For the same reason people play as Nazis in world war two games, arrogant racist psychos get the best toys.

Don't do this. It's in exceedingly bad taste.

[JudgeDeathCZ]

I like them bcuz they brought OmniMechs to IS and some lost-tech too

[Stormwolf]

I like the Clans more then the IS factions.

In the IS factions you only matter if atleast one of your parents has a royal bloodline or if your family owns a mech, otherwise you're a nobody. The Clans make you work for your place and position, every warrior who participates in their first Trial of Position has a shot at eventually becoming the leader or hold a high rank in their faction.

Sure there is the entire trueborn and freeborn matter, but this is different from Clan to Clan. Clan Star Adder and 3050 era Clan Wolf were quite easy going about. It is still unfair, but they have a better shot at achieving something then a average Joe that lives in a Successor State.

Additionally, I like the trial style combat, it minimizes civilian casualties and damage to infrastructure. The Draconis Combine thinks nothing of torching a town and selling the captured women to pleasure houses for instance. Anybody captured by the Clans gets adopted into the Clan, you essentially become a civilian instead of a prisoner/slave.

It's true that Clans like the Smoke Jaguars are hard on their non-warrior castes, but compare this to Clans like the Ghost Bears or Diamond Sharks, those guys are actually pretty nice. The Clans are a mixed bag really, there are no real good or bad guys (though you could argue that Ulric Kerensky was a good guy since he helped halt the Invasion).