56 replies to this topic

[Aegis Kleais]

Here's how I hope the base capture mechanic works:

• NO Mech increases the capture rate faster than any other Mech. (ie, Lights don't cap faster than Mediums, etc.)
  
• The more Mechs that occupy an enemy base, the faster the base caps
  
• At least 1 team Mech is needed to occupy the home base in order to stop the capturing progress of that base
  
• Bases do NOT have automated defenses
  
• To promote stealth play, bases should NOT automatically tell a team when an enemy is capturing the base (players should have to read the UI or be told by others)
  
• There should be no place in a base where any Mech can go and not be hurt (ie, hangar bays, repair bays, etc.)
  
• A Mech should not count as "defending" a base until its feet land within the base (ie, you can't have a Mech just jump over the airspace of the base to count as "defending"

Any other thoughts?

[Adridos]

Since this is Mechwarrior, I don't think that resetting the timer with a hit of the capper should be possible, anyon could just turn around and shoot a volley of missiles that way, negatting any tactic that would consider capping an option.

But then again, I'm basing my opinion on 2 base system present in WoT and my experiences with it, more base system of MW:O works a bit differently, by looking at the pictures.

Edited by Adridos, 07 May 2012 - 02:38 PM.

[trycksh0t]

Yeah, have bases large enough to allow for maneuvering when capping/defending. Also, large enough to prevent a single artillery strike from hitting everyone who's capping at the time.

[Zylo]

Aegis Kleais™, on 07 May 2012 - 02:32 PM, said:

Here's how I hope the base capture mechanic works:

• NO Mech increases the capture rate faster than any other Mech. (ie, Lights don't cap faster than Mediums, etc.)
  
• The more Mechs that occupy an enemy base, the faster the base caps
  
• At least 1 team Mech is needed to occupy the home base in order to stop the capturing progress of that base
  
• Bases do NOT have automated defenses
  
• To promote stealth play, bases should NOT automatically tell a team when an enemy is capturing the base (players should have to read the UI or be told by others)
  
• There should be no place in a base where any Mech can go and not be hurt (ie, hangar bays, repair bays, etc.)
  
• A Mech should not count as "defending" a base until its feet land within the base (ie, you can't have a Mech just jump over the airspace of the base to count as "defending"

Any other thoughts?

My guess is a base cap system similar to WoT where more mechs within the cap point would speed capture, damage done to the mechs attempting to cap would slow or reset the cap timer. Base cap should be an option but it shouldn't be so easy that players avoid fighting for an easy base cap win.

I don't agree with the stealth play concept though, if a base is being capped it should be clear to both sides.

[THELONGSHANKS]

Aegis Kleais™, on 07 May 2012 - 02:32 PM, said:

Here's how I hope the base capture mechanic works:

• NO Mech increases the capture rate faster than any other Mech. (ie, Lights don't cap faster than Mediums, etc.)
  
• The more Mechs that occupy an enemy base, the faster the base caps
  
• At least 1 team Mech is needed to occupy the home base in order to stop the capturing progress of that base
  
• Bases do NOT have automated defenses
  
• To promote stealth play, bases should NOT automatically tell a team when an enemy is capturing the base (players should have to read the UI or be told by others)
  
• There should be no place in a base where any Mech can go and not be hurt (ie, hangar bays, repair bays, etc.)
  
• A Mech should not count as "defending" a base until its feet land within the base (ie, you can't have a Mech just jump over the airspace of the base to count as "defending"

Any other thoughts?

I like your jumpjet rule. Hadn't thought of that.

[Inappropriate359]

I have this mental picture of the base being the dropship LZ. Gotta watch those precious dropships..

[Monky]

I've always felt WOT's system was a bit silly.

'Hey this light tank that can't damage anyone slipped by and sat in a circle for 1:40, time to stop fighting!'

I think capture points should probably be gained per second, meaning you control a base for a certain amount of time and you will gain capture points. A certain amount forces a withdrawal as it's clear that there's a dominant force. If the scores are within 10% difference when the limit is reach or the map timer runs out, a 1 minute showdown kicks in. Beyond that, it is A: destroy all enemies, B: Have most capture points at timeout and not have the other team within the showdown window, C: Reach maximum number of cap points and other team is not within showdown window, D: either B or C occurs but enemy is in showdown window, round timer is set to 1 minute and may the best team win. This allows a last minute wipe out attempt or cap points resurgence if played well, and only occurs when it is a close game points-wise anyways. Only 1 showdown should occur per match at maximum.

[Aegis Kleais]

Capturing a base (or at least occupying the base so as to pull X amount of forces off the front line) might be a very viable tactic in order to soften enemy forces into more manageable sizes. Yet another role a Scout can play well.

[Orzorn]

Aegis Kleais™, on 07 May 2012 - 02:32 PM, said:

• A Mech should not count as "defending" a base until its feet land within the base (ie, you can't have a Mech just jump over the airspace of the base to count as "defending"

Yes, yes, yes.

This is very important. This prevents jerks from just darting over the base perimeter to stop it from capturing.

However, are you sure about only requiring one mech to stop a base from capturing? I think it should be about net forces. 1 v 1 will cause no change, but 2 v 1 will cause them to start capturing, and the more people in the base the faster it captures.

This is also important because it means that one mech can attempt to defend on their own, but a strike team can still capture it from him even if he evades them the entire time. Circling around inside the base running away from the enemy forces isn't exactly defending it, you know?

[Aegis Kleais]

Orzorn, on 07 May 2012 - 03:43 PM, said:

Yes, yes, yes.

This is very important. This prevents jerks from just darting over the base perimeter to stop it from capturing.

However, are you sure about only requiring one mech to stop a base from capturing? I think it should be about net forces. 1 v 1 will cause no change, but 2 v 1 will cause them to start capturing, and the more people in the base the faster it captures.

This is also important because it means that one mech can attempt to defend on their own, but a strike team can still capture it from him even if he evades them the entire time. Circling around inside the base running away from the enemy forces isn't exactly defending it, you know?

I've always liked rewarding players who were smart enough to give "defense" as important in tactics as offense is. To me, I feel that 1 Mech should "stop" all progress" (but the moment he jumps or leaves base perimeter, the capture rate continues)

This always gives credence and importance to a Scout running off its own front lines to get into the base to stop it from getting capped and trying to "hold out" against the base aggressors while slower, more formidable teammates can hoof it back to the base.

Of course, against a single player, if the base is getting capped by multiple enemies, that player may not last long at all, but still, I feel personally adamant about only needing 1 player to stop a halt base capture progress.

[Cruxshadow]

Aegis Kleais™, on 07 May 2012 - 03:47 PM, said:

I've always liked rewarding players who were smart enough to give "defense" as important in tactics as offense is. To me, I feel that 1 Mech should "stop" all progress" (but the moment he jumps or leaves base perimeter, the capture rate continues)

This always gives credence and importance to a Scout running off its own front lines to get into the base to stop it from getting capped and trying to "hold out" against the base aggressors while slower, more formidable teammates can hoof it back to the base.

Of course, against a single player, if the base is getting capped by multiple enemies, that player may not last long at all, but still, I feel personally adamant about only needing 1 player to stop a halt base capture progress.

Only needing 1 mech to stop cap is unfair, it should be a 1 for 1 negation. I would almost base it on a weight for weight basis.

[Aelos03]

personally i don't like idea of two bases and having to be in to capture it, i'm more for one base and attackers

[Aegis Kleais]

Cruxshadow, on 07 May 2012 - 04:01 PM, said:

Only needing 1 mech to stop cap is unfair, it should be a 1 for 1 negation. I would almost base it on a weight for weight basis.

Well, it's all subjective. To give you an example, I feel that your idea about 2+ vs. 1 and weight classification altering capture rates to be unfair as well. Whose to say what is right, right?

Aelos03, on 07 May 2012 - 04:09 PM, said:

personally i don't like idea of two bases and having to be in to capture it, i'm more for one base and attackers

My only problem with this is that it puts 1 team on "Offense and Defense" and the others on "Offense and Capture". Having both teams have to worry about losing to loss of team or a base capture feels more fair, IMO.

[Magnificent Bastard]

I'm just glad they're giving us multiple game modes. As fun as team destruction is in MW4 it starts to get old after a while.

[Sears]

I remember when people were worried about a hoard of Atlas' on one team, i am glad base capture is in there as this goes a long way to undermine that strategy.
Plus having to defend while also attack adds another layer of strategy for the commander.

Edited by Sears, 07 May 2012 - 04:23 PM.

[RynCage]

Cruxshadow, on 07 May 2012 - 04:01 PM, said:

Only needing 1 mech to stop cap is unfair, it should be a 1 for 1 negation. I would almost base it on a weight for weight basis.

No, it isnt. If the capture rate is just 1 for 1, what stops a team from all picking scouts, and rushing your base? It would turn matches into campfests and ruin the immersion bigtime. "The enemy team is all scout mechs, the moment we leave base; they're going to cap."
one mech to stop a cap is completely legit and cuts out all the cheese.
One mech will only last so long against multiple cappers if his feet have to be planted on the ground to continue stopping the cap- there in lay the balance.

This also would mean that if say a big, slow, assault mech managed to get to the base and start capping, sending one light mech won't be the best way to stop it, and you could just be throwing away resources. this opens a lot of tactical decisions both teams need to make.

Edited by RynCage, 07 May 2012 - 04:45 PM.

[HeIIequin]

I'm of the opinion that the multiple attackers gives reduced efficiency. Ie: 2 attackers vs 1 defender would only give a 1.5x capture rate, instead of 2x. After all, the more forces you bring, the more likely you are to destroy the enemy nearby, thereby increasing your cap rate.
A defender should be rewarded for defending outnumbered against an assaulting force, not penalized twice by having to kill 2 enemies who cap super fast.

I'm not quite sure about the no jumpjet defending rule though. I can see what you mean about the JJ hopping, butafter all, a light scout NEEDS those jumpjets. Forcing him to stay on the ground to stop a cap will just get him killed quicker. Seems cruel to take away their advantage like that. Anyways, if the JJ mech kept hopping in and out of the cap zone, the enemy would still slowly be capping. If they want to cap faster, then kill the enemy scout.

How large is the cap zone though? If the cap zone was large, I can see how a JJ defender could be annoying, since it could keep at range of the enemy forces, kiting the enemy around while waiting for reinforcements. That's not really defending.

Edited by HeIIequin, 07 May 2012 - 05:35 PM.

[Aelos03]

Aegis Kleais™, on 07 May 2012 - 04:13 PM, said:

My only problem with this is that it puts 1 team on "Offense and Defense" and the others on "Offense and Capture". Having both teams have to worry about losing to loss of team or a base capture feels more fair, IMO.

ye but reason why i dont like this base capturing is because i think i would be way cooler if we fight for some realistic goal (something unlike standing in base to capture it).

[Mike Silva]

I don't like the idea of disadvantaging 'Mechs which are equipped with jump-jets. It doesn't make sense to not allow them to stop or start a capture while in the air. It's not like jump-jets have an infinite amount of fuel, after a jump they need time to recharge.

I also don't like the suggestion that a team not be given notification that someone is attempting to capture the base. If the base doesn't have anybody in it that can get on a radio and yell "yo, all our base are about to belong to them" then what's so important that you're risking your life to defend it?

[Aegis Kleais]

Mike Silva, on 07 May 2012 - 06:36 PM, said:

I don't like the idea of disadvantaging 'Mechs which are equipped with jump-jets. It doesn't make sense to not allow them to stop or start a capture while in the air. It's not like jump-jets have an infinite amount of fuel, after a jump they need time to recharge.

I also don't like the suggestion that a team not be given notification that someone is attempting to capture the base. If the base doesn't have anybody in it that can get on a radio and yell "yo, all our base are about to belong to them" then what's so important that you're risking your life to defend it?

After watching that footage, on the assumption that that is how the jets will recharge in game, about 4-5 seconds after landing on the ground, the Mech was able to use jump jets again at near a full charge. They seem near always ready to use.