56 replies to this topic

[Mike Silva]

Aegis Kleais™, on 07 May 2012 - 06:51 PM, said:

After watching that footage, on the assumption that that is how the jets will recharge in game, about 4-5 seconds after landing on the ground, the Mech was able to use jump jets again at near a full charge. They seem near always ready to use.

Did the 'Mech in the footage you watched use up all the juice in the first jump?

Also, it's not like you're moving all that fast while jumping. You turn into a big floaty target with no cover to hide behind.

In my mind it's the same as saying that one wouldn't be allowed to cap, or break a cap if you have over a certain level of armor. Maneuverability and speed is what a lighter weight 'Mech depends upon for survivability like the heavier 'Mechs rely on armor.

[Paul Inouye]

Thanks for your design suggestions Aegis Kleais£. Please see my responses below:

Aegis Kleais™, on 07 May 2012 - 02:32 PM, said:

Here's how I hope the base capture mechanic works:

• NO Mech increases the capture rate faster than any other Mech. (ie, Lights don't cap faster than Mediums, etc.)

After considering your suggestion, I've made base capture time based purely on tonnage.

Quote

• The more Mechs that occupy an enemy base, the faster the base caps

See above.

Quote

• At least 1 team Mech is needed to occupy the home base in order to stop the capturing progress of that base

We will use VOIP voice detection to determine if a team member says "Our base is being captured" which will stop the capture timer. Also if any member of the team looks in the general direction of their base, it will stop the timer.

Quote

• Bases do NOT have automated defenses

Not sure if I like this idea so I had the level designers plant no less than 50 Long Toms point directly into the capture zone and will instantly start firing at any non-friendly unit.

Quote

• To promote stealth play, bases should NOT automatically tell a team when an enemy is capturing the base (players should have to read the UI or be told by others)

This is not friendly to the casual gamer who will be joining all matches you are taking part of. Hence anyone stepping into a base will trigger a map wide alarm with the computer voice repeatedly telling all players that the base is being captured. This system will also text you on your phone and post on your Facebook wall just to remind you.

Quote

• There should be no place in a base where any Mech can go and not be hurt (ie, hangar bays, repair bays, etc.)

I fully agree with you here. So each base will be populated with health packs that only friendly units can use.

Quote

• A Mech should not count as "defending" a base until its feet land within the base (ie, you can't have a Mech just jump over the airspace of the base to count as "defending"

As per my point above, just looking in the general direction of the base will count as defending.

Quote

Any other thoughts?

Mad yet?

[pursang]

WHAT?!



Trolololololololol

[Aelos03]

OMG ForumUserKiller is here Take cover

[Orzorn]

Paul Inouye, on 07 May 2012 - 06:57 PM, said:

Mad yet?

The first variant I make will be the "PaulTrollKiller".

[Gun Bear]

See OP you had to run your big mouth and ruin the whole thing for everyone

[SilentWolff]

Aegis Kleais™, on 07 May 2012 - 02:32 PM, said:

Here's how I hope the base capture mechanic works:

• NO Mech increases the capture rate faster than any other Mech. (ie, Lights don't cap faster than Mediums, etc.)
  
• The more Mechs that occupy an enemy base, the faster the base caps
  
• At least 1 team Mech is needed to occupy the home base in order to stop the capturing progress of that base
  
• Bases do NOT have automated defenses
  
• To promote stealth play, bases should NOT automatically tell a team when an enemy is capturing the base (players should have to read the UI or be told by others)
  
• There should be no place in a base where any Mech can go and not be hurt (ie, hangar bays, repair bays, etc.)
  
• A Mech should not count as "defending" a base until its feet land within the base (ie, you can't have a Mech just jump over the airspace of the base to count as "defending"

Any other thoughts?

Welcome to World of Tanks Mechs.
The stealth base capture I dont agree with, rest is pretty spot on.

[Kanatta Jing]

50 Long Toms pointed into the base... That would make sense on some maps.

Lets you make it a defend/destroy the Long Toms game.

[Adridos]

Paul Inouye, on 07 May 2012 - 06:57 PM, said:

Mad yet?

You just made him think of a "IWillKillPaulForThis" variant that counters only you.

[Siilk]

I'm not sure about OP points on automatic defence and cap mechanics. I'd rather see the base as an actual well-defended encampment(a base or a landed dropship perhaps), which should be destroyed rather than captured. It would make more sense and would be much more interesting to do, compared to just standing in the designated cap area for some arbitrary time. Players would have to either fight the base defences head on or use some covert ops to destroy turret control tower or power supply. Additionally, to prevent bombing or artillery strikes, base defences could have dedicated AA/heavy AMS turrets(something like MWLL's eagle eye and base AMS turrets), that would be able to intercept incoming artillery shells and aeros.

[Kreisel]

Paul Inouye, on 07 May 2012 - 06:57 PM, said:

Mad yet?

That's like a variant of the Mad Cat right, the Mad Yet? It mounts time cannons that blast mechs into next week instead of the missile pods, right?

Nice one Paul.

In all seriousness we have no idea how base capture works, I for one hope it's something more interesting than just standing around the base. Did I hear right that they are supposedly Drop Ship LZ? Would something make sense that would force the other team to withdrawal by making the LZ too dangerous for pickup somehow? Honestly, I think what would make sense is if they were actual dropships, where if they take enough damage they make the call, get back here now, we're getting the hell outta here, or we're leaving you with no ride home. Or a more stationary base having all it's defenses destroyed (or it's systems somehow hacked).

[Cruxshadow]

Paul Inouye, on 07 May 2012 - 06:57 PM, said:

We will use VOIP voice detection to determine if a team member says "Our base is being captured" which will stop the capture timer. Also if any member of the team looks in the general direction of their base, it will stop the timer.


Mad yet?

I am not sure that just looking at the base should be enough to stop the cap timer, slow it down sure but not stop it completely. I would suggest that you have to at least shoot at the mechs trying to cap to stop the timer.

[autogyro]

Paul Inouye, on 07 May 2012 - 06:57 PM, said:

This is not friendly to the casual gamer who will be joining all matches you are taking part of. Hence anyone stepping into a base will trigger a map wide alarm with the computer voice repeatedly telling all players that the base is being captured. This system will also text you on your phone and post on your Facebook wall just to remind you.

I'm sorry but, you guys still haven't put in twitter integration? Sometimes I wonder why I bother replacing the apples every day on that PGI shrine.

[Crimson Dux]

Paul Inouye, on 07 May 2012 - 06:57 PM, said:

We will use VOIP voice detection to determine if a team member says "Our base is being captured" which will stop the capture timer. Also if any member of the team looks in the general direction of their base, it will stop the timer.

Finally a confirmation of a voice chat! But this detection implies that it will be english only. I was hoping that at least in teamchat you could talk in the language you want. I'm used to play with team of diferent nationalities and sometimes its easier to talk in my/our natives languages (some players have a very limited english vocabulary and/or bad pronunciation).

@ Autogyro: Please no Twitter. We really don't need another program on while playing.

P.S: I could work with the Facebook reminder...

Edited by Crimson Dux, 08 May 2012 - 03:57 AM.

[Strum Wealh]

Siilk, on 07 May 2012 - 11:45 PM, said:

I'm not sure about OP points on automatic defence and cap mechanics. I'd rather see the base as an actual well-defended encampment(a base or a landed dropship perhaps), which should be destroyed rather than captured. It would make more sense and would be much more interesting to do, compared to just standing in the designated cap area for some arbitrary time. Players would have to either fight the base defences head on or use some covert ops to destroy turret control tower or power supply. Additionally, to prevent bombing or artillery strikes, base defences could have dedicated AA/heavy AMS turrets(something like MWLL's eagle eye and base AMS turrets), that would be able to intercept incoming artillery shells and aeros.

Personally, I agree with this post.

As an example, the defenses of a Star League era Castle Brian include:
Reinforced Weapons Bunker (hex 1):

• 3 ER PPC
  
• 3 LB 10-X AC (300)
  
• 3 LRM 15 (720)
  
• 1 AC/20(100)
  
• 3 SRM 6 (450)
  
• 1 TAG
  
• 4 MG (600)
  
• 4 MPL
  
• 1 Flamer
  
• 4 AMS (120)
  
• 3 LB 2-X AC (675)
  
• 3 LRM 15 (120)

Reinforced Weapons Bunker (hex 4):

• 3 Long Toms (300)
  
• 3 Thumpers (300)
  
• 3 Arrow IV (90)
  
• 3 LRM 15 (480)
  
• 2 ERLL
  
• 4 MPL
  
• 3 SRM 6 (450)
  
• 4 HMG (600)
  
• 1 Flamer
  
• 4 AMS (120)

Anti-AeroSpace Bunker (hexes 1,2,3):

• 4 Large Pulse Lasers
  
• 6 LB 10/X Autocannons (1000)
  
• 3 LRM 20 Artemis (360)
  
• 2 Thumpers (600)
  
• 6 SRM 6 Artemis (900)
  
• 1 TAG
  
• 6 Machine Guns (1200)
  
• 6 Medium Pulse Lasers
  
• 3 Flamers
  
• 6 Anti-Missile Systems (720)

And more.

I would expect a "modern" (Succession Wars/cusp of Clan Invasion era) base to be reasonably well-fortified, if even not so much so as the Castles Brian.
Perhaps halving (rounding down where necessary) the above weapons complements (and substituting lower-level tech where necessary) would be appropriate for temporary facilities, while retaining approximately two-thirds to three-quarters of the above weapons complements would be appropriate for more permanent/entrenched facilities?

And the base should, IMO, be able to alert the team if and only if either of the base's defenses or communication systems (comms tower(s)) are still active and if either the defenses or detection system (radar tower(s)) actually detect enemy 'Mechs.

Your thoughts?

[3Xtr3m3]

That was a typo on Paul's part, He was actually referring to his favorite Mech, The Mad Yeti.
Think Big Hairy Troll...With Guns!!!


Hey Paul, Bryan says, " You are still not getting your frikkin Mad Yeti!!"

[3Xtr3m3]

Would paying cash for Strum Wealths defenses be Pay to Win? If not, then THIS I would pay cash for.

[Aegis Kleais]

Paul Inouye, on 07 May 2012 - 06:57 PM, said:

Thanks for your design suggestions Aegis Kleais£. Please see my responses below:




After considering your suggestion, I've made base capture time based purely on tonnage.




See above.




We will use VOIP voice detection to determine if a team member says "Our base is being captured" which will stop the capture timer. Also if any member of the team looks in the general direction of their base, it will stop the timer.




Not sure if I like this idea so I had the level designers plant no less than 50 Long Toms point directly into the capture zone and will instantly start firing at any non-friendly unit.






This is not friendly to the casual gamer who will be joining all matches you are taking part of. Hence anyone stepping into a base will trigger a map wide alarm with the computer voice repeatedly telling all players that the base is being captured. This system will also text you on your phone and post on your Facebook wall just to remind you.




I fully agree with you here. So each base will be populated with health packs that only friendly units can use.




As per my point above, just looking in the general direction of the base will count as defending.



Mad yet?

And THIS, is why all you do at PGI is design lead.

[Devil Man]

Aegis Kleais™, on 07 May 2012 - 02:32 PM, said:

Here's how I hope the base capture mechanic works:

• NO Mech increases the capture rate faster than any other Mech. (ie, Lights don't cap faster than Mediums, etc.)
  
• The more Mechs that occupy an enemy base, the faster the base caps
  
• At least 1 team Mech is needed to occupy the home base in order to stop the capturing progress of that base
  
• Bases do NOT have automated defenses
  
• To promote stealth play, bases should NOT automatically tell a team when an enemy is capturing the base (players should have to read the UI or be told by others)
  
• There should be no place in a base where any Mech can go and not be hurt (ie, hangar bays, repair bays, etc.)
  
• A Mech should not count as "defending" a base until its feet land within the base (ie, you can't have a Mech just jump over the airspace of the base to count as "defending"

Any other thoughts?

Agreed on most counts. A couple of areas I disagree:

-Automated defenses: Not including automated defenses will kinda kill the immersion factor of the game. There's sure to be some non-mech forces at the base. Just don't make them overpowered. A light mech engaging a base with no enemy mechs present should be able to defeat whatever automated defenses are present.

-You should be alerted when your base is under attack. Again...immersion. Someone at your base surely would make an effort to get to a radio and contact you. But there should be modules that permit players to jam that signal. That way, stealth attacks do remain an option.

-There should be a radius around the base which counts as defending the base if it's a true "capture the base" scenario...but I'd rather not have that. I'd rather it be a "destroy the base" scenario, that way a single assault mech couldn't defend the base against a lance of light mechs, since some of those mechs would no doubt be firing on the base itself.

Lastly, I really hope that there will be more than just "base play" missions in the game. It's fine if that's all we get at launch, but shortly thereafter I'd like additional scenarios to be added. For instance...destroy/defend the convoy, destroy/defend the arms depot, secure the drop ship landing zone/destroy the enemy drop ship, etc... I'd also love to see larger maps with multiple objectives on them, or timed missions where you must hold off a superior number of enemy mechs until reinforcements arrive. Hell, I'm sure we could come up with dozens of other scenarios. The point is, if all of the Lance/Company size drops are based on Capture the Base, things ill get old after awhile.

[Devil Man]

Orzorn, on 07 May 2012 - 07:08 PM, said:

The first variant I make will be the "PaulTrollKiller".

Pffft...I'm making an Atlas loaded to bear with nothing but Flamers and naming it the Paul Inouye.