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Ecm....really Paul, This Is The "balanced" Version>?


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#1 SpiralRazor

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 09:50 PM

You guys spent the last couple months making a "balanced" version and this is it?


Way, WAY overpowered for 1.5 tons and 2 crits.

It would have been quite good enough at simply increasing lock on times by x2. And the we have two so you need two stuff is just...stupid....EWAR doesnt work like that.



"An ECM suite has an effect radius of six hexes that creates a
“bubble” around the carrying unit. The ECM’s disruptive abilities
affect all enemy units inside this bubble, as well as any line of sight
traced through the bubble. It has no effect on units friendly to the
unit carrying the ECM.

Within its effect radius, an ECM suite has the following effects
on the following systems. The ECM suite does not affect other
scanning and targeting devices, such as TAG and targeting
computers.

Active Probe: Active probes cannot penetrate the ECM’s area
of effect. The probing unit would notice that it is being jammed,
however.

Artemis IV FCS: ECM blocks the eff ects of Artemis IV fire
control systems. Artemis-equipped launchers may be fired as
normal missiles through the ECM, but they lose the Cluster Hits
Table bonus.

Narc Missile Beacon: Missiles equipped to home in on an
attached Narc pod lose the Cluster Hits Table bonus for that
system if the pods themselves lie within an ECM “bubble.” The
Narc launcher itself (standard and iNarc) is not affected by ECM.

C3 and C3i Computer: ECM has the eff ect of “cutting off ” any C3-
equipped unit from its network. If a C3 master unit is isolated from
the network because it ventures inside the ECM radius, the entire
portion of the network below it is eff ectively shut off (all units
subordinate to it on the diagram on p. 132). Only those C3 units able
to draw an LOS to the master unit that does not pass through the
ECM radius can access the network. If the master unit that connects
the lances of a company lies inside the ECM eff ect radius, the link
between the lances is lost, though each lance’s network functions
normally (unless the ECM also interferes with them individually)."



So...it shuts down BAP, Artemis 4, C3 systems, Narc.

It has no effect on TAG or To Hit Rolls via "lock ons".

Meaning it shouldnt do anything vs the lock on times of LRMS/SSRMS which is EXACTLY why I said just increasing Lock on times by X2 for everyone within 180 of the EWAR mech was more then enough to make it worth mounting.

Edited by SpiralRazor, 27 November 2012 - 10:11 PM.


#2 Lokust Davion

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 09:51 PM

Paul was ambushed by streakcats; he wants revenge.

#3 Roland

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 09:54 PM

Poster yells at people who suggest nerfing the A1 Streak-boat.
Then proceeds to scream about ECM.
lolz.

#4 SpiralRazor

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 09:57 PM

Whos yelling? Theres literally 50+ other people who repsonded(non-streak drivers) saying that other then increasing the CD rate slightly, that the current mechanics are fine. Tonight, running an A1, I was blown up no less then 8 times out of 12 from fighting other organized groups who were able to identify the threat, and eliminate it. Repair bills hovered around 120k.

I would suggest to you Roland, that you have little idea about which you speak. Try reading the ramifications of ECM thread, then comment.

Edited by SpiralRazor, 27 November 2012 - 09:58 PM.


#5 Lonestar1771

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 10:01 PM

I'm pretty sure that PGI has a Wheel of Ruin in the office that they spin every Monday morning meeting to decide which component of the game they want to screw up for the week.

#6 Webber

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 10:06 PM

I still don't see how this is a bad thing...

ECM seems like an exciting idea. Now the LRM Boats need a bit of support, Streak Boats could use other weapons, and teamwork still reigns supreme.

#7 Fate 6

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 10:12 PM

Yeah, ECM is way over the top. It literally makes streaks unusable. It makes LRMs unusable. So, now that my A1 can only use SRMs I guess I'll try it, but that's not what I bought it for.

I'm not even going to rant about the fact that they are giving a Jenner variant the option, and of all the variants they put it on the most broken one to boot.

I guess I'll have to get myself an Atlas DC so I can make all the enemy missile mechs obsolete and still be able to fire streaks at Jenners.

#8 Roland

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 10:13 PM

View PostSpiralRazor, on 27 November 2012 - 09:57 PM, said:

Whos yelling? Theres literally 50+ other people who repsonded(non-streak drivers) saying that other then increasing the CD rate slightly, that the current mechanics are fine. Tonight, running an A1, I was blown up no less then 8 times out of 12 from fighting other organized groups who were able to identify the threat, and eliminate it. Repair bills hovered around 120k.

I would suggest to you Roland, that you have little idea about which you speak. Try reading the ramifications of ECM thread, then comment.

Ya, I'm pretty sure I have a good idea of exactly what I'm saying. The proposed ECM system looks to be amazingly good.

I honestly do not give a crap if it makes the A1 streakboat absolutely undrivable. It was a nonsense mech anyway.

And certainly, I killed tons of them, because generally they had terrible pilots... but I see absolutely no value in preserving that build. It didn't add anything useful to the game at all. Seriously, while there had been a lot of crying about it now, it wasn't even a novel build. People discovered the A1 streakboat way back in early beta. It's not like it was some brilliant work of mech engineering genius.

Although honestly, you could STILL run it even after they introduce ECM.. you will just require a coordinated team to do so. Someone is going to have to run ECCM for you.

Seriously though, it's funny to see folks who defended the streak-pult freaking the hell out even before seeing ECM in the game.

#9 Fate 6

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 10:16 PM

View PostWebber, on 27 November 2012 - 10:06 PM, said:

I still don't see how this is a bad thing...

ECM seems like an exciting idea. Now the LRM Boats need a bit of support, Streak Boats could use other weapons, and teamwork still reigns supreme.

LRM Boats will REQUIRE your team to have ECM if the enemy has it. That's more than a little support. You cannot get a lock on them except for a 20 meter window. So LRMs are out.

SSRMs will have the same 20m window. So those are out.

The Cat-A1 is now an SRM boat. There isn't even a choice on the matter. The Jenner-D is too common to use anything else.

Teamwork should help you to win, but in a game like this it shouldn't mean the enemy is not allowed to use a whole class of mechs. Missiles are obsolete if ECM is put in the game the way it is planned.

#10 Bluten

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 10:18 PM

They **** all over the BAP but then make the ECM actually good? What kind of priorities or plan is this?! The BAP does practically nothing and no one will ever use it but the ECM has this huge long list of helpful benefits and will be slotted on every possible variant by everyone because it's so good and weighs almost nothing.

Piranha: Why do you make the first device utter crap then make the second one far better? The BAP needs a buff that it'll likely never get while the ECM already needs a nerf and hasn't even been released yet. I got an idea, how about allowing the BAP to detect through terrain and the ECM preventing it? These things are suppose to be counterweights to each other; one improves sensors, the other hampers enemy sensors. Instead you're giving us a useless BAP and an obviously very overpowered ECM.

#11 Roland

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 10:19 PM

Quote

LRM Boats will REQUIRE your team to have ECM if the enemy has it. That's more than a little support. You cannot get a lock on them except for a 20 meter window. So LRMs are out.

You seriously need to read the ECM writeup, dude.

In addition to someone on your team having ECM and countering their bubble, a member of your team can also use a tag laser, which negates ECM, and then allows you to lock missiles onto it.

So no, it doesn't limit LRM's to usage in a 20m window.

#12 SpiralRazor

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 10:21 PM

View PostWebber, on 27 November 2012 - 10:06 PM, said:

I still don't see how this is a bad thing...

ECM seems like an exciting idea. Now the LRM Boats need a bit of support, Streak Boats could use other weapons, and teamwork still reigns supreme.


LRM boats already needed a lot of support, and streaks, all streaks are rendered pretty much useless on a dice roll of who has more Guardian ECM... Are you serious bro?

THE ONLY rein on light mechs right now, are streaks and other lights. And even then I lost some matches last night, driving a streakcat, where the opponents had 4+ jenners running around.

#13 n3um3th0d

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 10:21 PM

How do you know it is OP? Last I checked, there wasn't a magic server where you could play with unimplemented features...

#14 Fate 6

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 10:21 PM

View PostRoland, on 27 November 2012 - 10:13 PM, said:

Ya, I'm pretty sure I have a good idea of exactly what I'm saying. The proposed ECM system looks to be amazingly good.

I honestly do not give a crap if it makes the A1 streakboat absolutely undrivable. It was a nonsense mech anyway.

And certainly, I killed tons of them, because generally they had terrible pilots... but I see absolutely no value in preserving that build. It didn't add anything useful to the game at all. Seriously, while there had been a lot of crying about it now, it wasn't even a novel build. People discovered the A1 streakboat way back in early beta. It's not like it was some brilliant work of mech engineering genius.

Although honestly, you could STILL run it even after they introduce ECM.. you will just require a coordinated team to do so. Someone is going to have to run ECCM for you.

Seriously though, it's funny to see folks who defended the streak-pult freaking the hell out even before seeing ECM in the game.

You're looking at 1 build on 1 mech. The streakpult is dumb, but introducing a ridiculously overpowered system like the current ECM is not the fix for it. Fixing (not nerfing) streaks an the netcode are how we fix the streakpult. ECM will make LRMs nearly unusable, as well as streaks on other mechs as well. Get off your high horse and actually look at the situation. I don't care if you didn't use streaks or LRMs before. Other people happen to like those weapon systems for the roles and fire support they provide. Ruining them would be game breaking. If I play 1 game against a Jenner with the current ECM and I literally can't use my weapons I will probably take a long break from this game, and I'm sure others feel the same way. If the only way the programmers can see their failings is in a drop in players, then I will make that happen.

Inb4 comments about "go ahead and quit," because that's clearly what I said.

Edited by Fate 6, 27 November 2012 - 10:23 PM.


#15 Bluten

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 10:24 PM

View Postn3um3th0d, on 27 November 2012 - 10:21 PM, said:

How do you know it is OP? Last I checked, there wasn't a magic server where you could play with unimplemented features...


You can look right at the changes and know it's going to be OP... at least if you have any intellect. This thing does far too much for a device that only weighs 1.5 tons and 2 slots. The BAP on the other hand, does almost nothing and no one will ever use it. You'd have to be totally blind to not see a very obvious imbalannce. You want us to draw you a map? Or just say "I told you so" the day after its released.

#16 Biruke

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 10:25 PM

even Battlefield 3 tanks and jets and helicopters can have ECM. and we're taking about 31st century?

#17 Fate 6

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 10:25 PM

View PostRoland, on 27 November 2012 - 10:19 PM, said:

You seriously need to read the ECM writeup, dude.

In addition to someone on your team having ECM and countering their bubble, a member of your team can also use a tag laser, which negates ECM, and then allows you to lock missiles onto it.

So no, it doesn't limit LRM's to usage in a 20m window.

Are we reading the same thing? Because I clearly read that ECM will make Tag lasers do nothing.


View PostBiruke, on 27 November 2012 - 10:25 PM, said:

even Battlefield 3 tanks and jets and helicopters can have ECM. and we're taking about 31st century?

Last I checked none of the vehicles in BF3 had the ability to not have missile lock on to them. They have flares (ACM) and systems which make it take longer to lock on, but nothing as severe as this ECM.

Edited by Fate 6, 27 November 2012 - 10:27 PM.


#18 SpiralRazor

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 10:26 PM

View PostRoland, on 27 November 2012 - 10:13 PM, said:


And certainly, I killed tons of them, because generally they had terrible pilots... but I see absolutely no value in preserving that build. It didn't add anything useful to the game at all. Seriously, while there had been a lot of crying about it now, it wasn't even a novel build. People discovered the A1 streakboat way back in early beta. It's not like it was some brilliant work of mech engineering genius.



Yes, because mounting 4+ lasers is also genius right? Do you remember the 9 laser zombie HB? The flamerback? When lights could create lag shields so bad it lagged out other people and was the whole reason the engines got nerfed along with max speeds?

Yes...all brilliant engineering..indeed..well said.

Medium Lasers bro!! MY GOD, WHAT WILL PEOPLE THINK OF NEXT!!?!!!

#19 Roland

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 10:29 PM

View PostFate 6, on 27 November 2012 - 10:21 PM, said:

You're looking at 1 build on 1 mech. The streakpult is dumb, but introducing a ridiculously overpowered system like the current ECM is not the fix for it. Fixing (not nerfing) streaks an the netcode are how we fix the streakpult. ECM will make LRMs nearly unusable, as well as streaks on other mechs as well.

I already explained how it doesn't even approach making LRM's unusable.

And frankly, almost every mech I run that has missile hardpoints runs streaks... Of course, I don't run ONLY streaks.

With ECM, streaks will work perfectly fine.. you'll just have to account for times when they are negated. You won't be able to put all your eggs in the "easy basket". Or, at least, you will have to have members of your team support you and deal with the ECM issue.

View PostFate 6, on 27 November 2012 - 10:21 PM, said:

Get off your high horse and actually look at the situation. I don't care if you didn't use streaks or LRMs before. Other people happen to like those weapon systems for the roles and fire support they provide. Ruining them would be game breaking. If I play 1 game against a Jenner with the current ECM and I literally can't use my weapons I will probably take a long break from this game, and I'm sure others feel the same way.

ECM as proposed is not going to even approach "ruining missiles". If anything, it'll make missile based fire support a much deeper and more interesting game. Tag suddenly has an actual use. Mechs will be able to spot targets without automatically being seen by the mechs they are spotting. You'll still be able to provide fire support for your team.

The sensor game is just going to be much more complex than it was previously.. which is to say, the sensor game will actually exist, whereas previously there was no sensor model.

#20 MavRCK

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Posted 27 November 2012 - 10:30 PM

Shrug.

The better pilot will figure out how to win. More strategy is good.

Lesser pilots will argue.

:)

GL HF!





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