249 replies to this topic

[Captain Midnight]

Well everything is working properly at the moment joseph, if they wanted it to work differently they'd have to change the code wouldn't they HURR HURR see what I did there?

[Joseph Mallan]

Yes, proved again what I just said about you. Streaks are working exactly as they did on TT. Try this. When you do not have target lock. ALPHA STRIKE! If your missiles don't fire, you just failed your to hit roll!

[Jonnara]

look at your poll captain Midnight. /over and out.

[Captain Midnight]

Joseph Mallan, on 30 November 2012 - 04:52 PM, said:

Yes, proved again what I just said about you. Streaks are working exactly as they did on TT. Try this. When you do not have target lock. ALPHA STRIKE! If your missiles don't fire, you just failed your to hit roll!

What if they move behind a building and my shot hits the building? That wasn't something that happened in tabletop, so tell me more about how this is tabletop and how rolling dice = using a mouse and keyboard and that none of the mechanics need to be adjusted?

Furthermore, I don't think this game should be shackled to tabletop. If changing the tabletop rules is expedient to achieve good gameplay then I demand we change it.

Edited by Captain Midnight, 30 November 2012 - 05:36 PM.

[FerretGR]

Captain Midnight, on 30 November 2012 - 04:38 PM, said:

SSRM in tabletop did NOT hit 100% of the time, they just didn't fire if you rolled a miss. So a "miss" in tabletop meant you didn't deal damage and didn't use ammo. Not always hits without rolling dice 100% of the time. SSRMs in this game are an abomination.

I mean, abomination? Drama much?

Prefacing this by saying that I have no problem with Streaks or Streakcats as they are. Challenge is a good thing. Maybe they're a bit too effective, but *shrug*, it's not a big deal to me if that's how you want to play. I like taking down Atlases in my Cicada; I like a challenge. Streakcats represent that.

At any rate, Captain Midnight is definitely right about this, at least. Here's the quote from the Master Rules:

Master Rules said:

The player must roll for a targeting lock each turn, even if he achieved a lock on the target in the previous turn. The player must make a separate to-hit roll for each individual Streak system being fired.

I mean, these are changes that some folks are proposing we try to improve the balancing of Streaks, so why not do it?

• Force a separate lock for each missile rack (implemented by a period of time over which the locks occur that's longer than the regular lock, and over which racks lock one at a time. Something sort of similar to this exists in Starhawk on the PS3, if anyone's played it. I toyed with the beta, and you could pilot a flying mech which had a lockable missile system: you could lock and fire an individual missile, or you could lock and hold fire to "charge up" and fire more than one rack, and you were forced to relock after firing in either case IIRC).
  
• Force relock after firing in any case.

One or both of these changes shouldn't dramatically decrease the effectiveness of Streaks for good pilots, but they'll certainly reduce their "ease of use" from the perspective of folks like Captain Midnight. Not a bad compromise, from my perspective, at least, and there's the added bonus of being canon. Strong argument in favor of making that adjustment imho. PGI?

Edited by FerretGR, 30 November 2012 - 07:01 PM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Captain Midnight, on 30 November 2012 - 05:21 PM, said:

What if they move behind a building and my shot hits the building? That wasn't something that happened in tabletop, so tell me more about how this is tabletop and how rolling dice = using a mouse and keyboard and that none of the mechanics need to be adjusted?

Furthermore, I don't think this game should be shackled to tabletop. If changing the tabletop rules is expedient to achieve good gameplay then I demand we change it.

Then the die roll failed to maintain lock at the very least. How stupid are you going to make these questions Sir? In TT you are not moving dynamically, so things will work differently. You are going to have to do much better than that. You really do need to be demoted! The SSRMS are tweaked from TT rules already. I'm sorry your sensibility is being challenged by how war gets done! But this game is a combat simulation and as such, you will sometimes be beaten by crap you don't like. Some folks don't like getting Sniped at 1000M with twin Gauss some folks don't like getting lasered into a puddle. To each of these people, I have to say... Opps. That the way these items have worked for decades. I remember shooting SSRMs at a Mech as it jumped over me in MW2 and the rockets flew up and over my back to hit the enemy like a "guided" missile is supposed to.

As to what you think, You are entitled to your opinion, But the DEVs are the ones who will make the final decision!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 30 November 2012 - 08:05 PM.

[Huntsman]

In simplest terms, if a team full of skilled direct fire players were more viable than a mixed team of skilled players using direct fire and indirect fire in combination, then LRMs would not have a place in this game other than perhaps as easy mode for pugs...and I'm interested in balancing this game for organized team tactics, not in accomodating pugs who shouldn't even be allowed to drink out of the same water fountain as me.

[Joseph Mallan]

I'm interested in balancing this game from a layered combat perspective and I don't give a sit what you sport stars want to do in combat. A infantry unit (or Mech Lance) works best when using overlapping fields of fire including suppressive fire from Missile batteries. Don't like it? News flash, The enemy isn't supposed to!!!! I love how some people don't like how war works.

BTW... I used to train with a grenade launcher as an Infantry Marine which allowed me to kill enemies using direct and indirect fire. So learn how to fight a war, then come back to play this Sim.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 30 November 2012 - 08:26 PM.

[VaeVict1s]

wow... 14 pages... yeah I'm not reading all of that

but i find it hilarious when a lrm boat complains i won't keep a lock on for long enough for his missiles to travel the 900m from his safe little hiding spot because I am skirmishing and having fun fighting other mechs in a good brawl

I don't mind no skill weapons... they serve a tactical purpose in the game... what I do mind is the no skill weapon boats thinking they are entitled to everyone else helping them get kills

I'll probably never enjoy an LRM boat as much as I enjoy a good fast light, or a brawler/striker build so I will play what is fun


HOWEVER!! this argument does not stand for SSRM2, I think they should be changed but not sure how.... maybe really solid tracking with the crosshairs rather than a lock on? Or maybe they just fly really tightly packed in a straight line quickly being another good skill based weapon? The way it stands right now, they won't be able to implement ssrm4 or ssrm6, and the normal srm2 is completely useless (not surprised there though, has it ever been a popular weapon in MW games?)

[Joseph Mallan]

Captain Midnight, on 30 November 2012 - 03:57 PM, said:

Everyone who says this isn't a twitch game is lying to themselves, because with the sole exception of LOWS every OTHER weapon is a twitch weapon! Anyone who says it's as easy to hit with direct fire as with LRMs is also lying. I mean, really? You'll say anything and ignore all the facts. Let's see how easy it is to hit with direct fire once ECM comes out and you can't use your crutches anymore :-)

OR maybe they have hundreds of hours shooting targets at various ranges to be a well trained killing machine(infantry soldiers)... Shooting lasers, ACs & Missiles in this game is just this side of a joke.

Quote

Everything you have to do to use LRMs you have to do with direct fire as well. If LRMs hit a mountain no one bats an eye, if a gauss catapult shot a hill people would laugh him out of his premade.

This is because some people are stupid.

Quote

ED: I think you guy who love lock on weapons and wish this game was MPBT are going to ruin this game then jump ship to mechwarrior tactics because that's the game you actually want to play. This game isn't that. This is mechwarrior, not battletech.

I'm sorry but this is stupid and selfish. This game is full of designs that are dedicated Missile boats with Jamie Wolf being one of the Games most famous Archer Pilots! And if you don't like what we have now to work with... Face a Bane 3! It carries 8 LRM 15s and has sinks and ammo to ruin a company's day!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 30 November 2012 - 08:56 PM.