44 replies to this topic

[AC]

Orzorn, on 08 May 2012 - 11:28 AM, said:

Part of the reason why Mechwarrior 4 was unbalanced...

Hardly... MW4 gave them the ability to knock things on its butt. There seems to be an inclanation that MW4 was all snipe fest. Maybe in 3rd person, mixtech scenarios, but in 1st person true tech, the games were as likely to result in a brawl as in a ranged combat. A Catapult with a full load of SRM4's was just plain nasty.

[Midgie]

In terms of MWO, I can imagine a C1 Catapult with the two LRM-15s replaced by four SRM-6s (I'm making a leap of faith that the mech will have two missile hardpoints in each arm). Remove a couple of heat sinks and jack up the armor. You now have a brawling heavy that could crit seek like a boss. Since it's going to be in close to the enemy much of the time, you might also add some scouting modules so it could mark targets and direct LRM fire.

[Rourke]

As the sky turned black with a hundred pinpoint eclipses, he could not drown out the sound of a hundred missles expelling their gasious fuel in that familiar high pitch hiss over the critical alarms blaring in his cockpit, knowing hitting the ejector cord was no longer an option, he knew these were his last few seconds in life.....Death was smiling, and all he could do was smile back.....

[osito]

Missiles are a key weapon in the bt universe. A archer can throw 40 lrms in one shot. The damage spread of that alone can seriously weaken another mech. leaving it vulnerable from other mechs heavy weapons. Also lets not forget the terror of in-direct fire. I hate getting caught in the steel rain, Without being able to hit back. It totally sucks.

[Helmer]

Bummer Ben, on 08 May 2012 - 10:51 AM, said:

I've been thinking about what kind of variants I could build in anticipation and it occurred to me that i'm not sure what the point of having missile racks (outside of LRMs) is. I mean, with energy weapons, the pro is that they have endless ammo, the con is heat. For projectile weapons, the opposite is true. But missiles generate heat AND have limited ammo. So, as the topic asks: what's the point?

As mentioned several times, the damage to weight ratio is great. Lets wait and see when the game is launched. We will just have to have faith that PGI will balance everything out .

Garth Erlam, on 08 May 2012 - 10:54 AM, said:

Such as SRMs? The insane damage-to-tonnage ratio comes to mind. An SRM-4 does the same damage as a Large Laser. An SRM-6 does more damage than a PPC.

Uhhh...yeah. Again my plea for my beloved Kintaro KTO-18 with 3 SRM6s . I never did hear a no in regards to that PayPal offer.....




Cheers.

[Exillian]

If you hit the bulleyes all Hell will be unleashed to your foes, especially if that foe the the Hulking Atlas.

[Captain Nice HD]

Specialty munitions.

[Solis Obscuri]

Orzorn, on 08 May 2012 - 10:58 AM, said:

An additional strength of SRMs that I have found in MWLL is, because they have a small area of effect, you can sometimes use them to hit enemies even behind cover by hitting the ground nearby.

Yeah, splash damage has been pretty insane - in MW2 PPCs and SRMs were leg-hunting delight, even if they didn't handle moving targets worth a damn in any other regard. Subsequent games made PPCs a lot more useful, but without the splash damage, and missile splash has never been on par with what it was in MW2 (where LRM tracking and splash damage were ridiculous and frankly OP).

CaveMan, on 08 May 2012 - 11:43 AM, said:

Do not underestimate Inferno SRMs either: an SRM-6 with Inferno rounds is pumping more heat into the target than firing a PPC, plus they can set the target on fire, set woods on fire, burn buildings down, and they straight up obliterate vehicles and infantry (maybe not such a big deal in MWO), so I'm really hoping we get the option for Infernos in MWO.

Cluster weapons are nasty.
The Gargoyle prime is one of the most under-rated 'Mechs in BT. On paper, with 2 LB-5X and 2 SRM-6 backed up by a piddly small laser, it looks pathetic.
Then one starts pumping LB-X submunitions into you and backing them up with SRMs and Inferno SRMs and suddenly your brand new 100-ton death machine is lying in the dirt with a smashed gyro and your whole left side is gone because ammo cooked off from overheating, and a couple missiles struck your cockpit and KO'd the mechwarrior.

Infernos are hellaciously vulnerable to ammo explosions, though, which has not been correctly reflected in MW video games...

Helmer, on 08 May 2012 - 01:12 PM, said:

Uhhh...yeah. Again my plea for my beloved Kintaro KTO-18 with 3 SRM6s . I never did hear a no in regards to that PayPal offer.....

I'm hoping we at least get the HBK-4SP in game as a variant. That would be a pretty cool brawler...

[Yoseful Mallad]

Lets put it this way. If you have a mech like a Catapult, Archer, Longbow and so on that has the ability to hold 2 LRM 20 packs and if you are that unlucky mech to happen to be on the other end of a very successful ranges attack of all 40 missiles, you are taking 40 points of damage. That will mess up most mech and or take a lighter mech out very quick if those hit in one location or weaker locations. Now... SRMs do 2 points of damage each if you are hit so if you are a close brawler that can hit your enemy with a salvo of SRMs then stagger your enemy with lasers and go back to the SRMs and stagger the weapons like this, you should not have to much of a heat problem.

Edited by Yoseful Mallad, 08 May 2012 - 03:08 PM.

[Victor Morson]

Garth Erlam, on 08 May 2012 - 10:54 AM, said:

Such as SRMs? The insane damage-to-tonnage ratio comes to mind. An SRM-4 does the same damage as a Large Laser. An SRM-6 does more damage than a PPC.

Yep. When unchecked by design or systems like MWO's Hardpoints, they're actually horrendously overpowered in the right config. While it's hardly broken, if you want horror, try fighting an SRM Carrier on the table top game; the only reason that isn't the go-to unit is because they put those guns on a terribly slow tracked vehicle. The few 'mechs that mount configs like that will obliterate just about anything.

That said, SRMs have always been the most erratically balanced weapon between the various MechWarrior games. They've ranged from extremely weak rapid fire weapons to massively powerful go-to guns. I'm looking forward to seeing how MWO handles them - hopefully similar to MPBT3025, which had them about as right as I think they'll ever get.

EDIT: The point of MRMs, which won't be in MWO for a long, long time if ever, is to be terrible weapons. The point of ATMs are to be awesome. The point of Rocket Launchers is to be a all-in alpha monster. Again, none of these will be in MWO for years, either until a timeline jump or the game is over 6 years old.

Edited by Victor Morson, 08 May 2012 - 03:16 PM.

[RynCage]

Bummer Ben, on 08 May 2012 - 10:51 AM, said:

I've been thinking about what kind of variants I could build in anticipation and it occurred to me that i'm not sure what the point of having missile racks (outside of LRMs) is. I mean, with energy weapons, the pro is that they have endless ammo, the con is heat. For projectile weapons, the opposite is true. But missiles generate heat AND have limited ammo. So, as the topic asks: what's the point?

The only time there isnt a reason for missles is when the company making the mechwarrior game makes missles underpowered and weak as ****.

[Pvt Dancer]

Garth Erlam, on 08 May 2012 - 10:54 AM, said:

Such as SRMs? The insane damage-to-tonnage ratio comes to mind. An SRM-4 does the same damage as a Large Laser. An SRM-6 does more damage than a PPC.

So... do all the missiles hit Garth? Are the locations spread out or focused?

The difference usally between missiles and other weapons is that they are spread out to several locations, and it is rare for all of the missiles to hit. So your LRM 20 is on average hitting with 12 missiles out of 20. That LRM damage is suppose to break down to two packs of 5 and a pack of 2 (so three locations). This is suppose to be because of ECM and ECCM disrupting the lock of the missiles. Though this is a fluff reason for a game mechanic to not make LRMs and SRMs dominate the battlefield because of the low tonnage/crit space of the weapons. I am interested what MWO does with this.

[Garth Erlam]

Rourke, on 08 May 2012 - 12:57 PM, said:

Death was smiling, and all he could do was smile back.....

Not today.

[Helmer]

Solis Obscuri, on 08 May 2012 - 03:01 PM, said:

Yeah, splash damage has been pretty insane - in MW2 PPCs and SRMs were leg-hunting delight, even if they didn't handle moving targets worth a damn in any other regard. Subsequent games made PPCs a lot more useful, but without the splash damage, and missile splash has never been on par with what it was in MW2 (where LRM tracking and splash damage were ridiculous and frankly OP).

Infernos are hellaciously vulnerable to ammo explosions, though, which has not been correctly reflected in MW video games...

I'm hoping we at least get the HBK-4SP in game as a variant. That would be a pretty cool brawler...

If we can get a Dervish, I should be able to mod it out to basically be a Kintaro... I hope!



Cheers.

[Mike Silva]

Earlier it was mentioned that SRMs were good for crit seeking..... have the devs coded in random chances at getting critical hits? On average, one out of every 36 rolls should yield that, so it makes sense to create the possibility in this game.

[Vollstrecker]

mekredd, on 08 May 2012 - 11:36 AM, said:

Well, yeah. Anything can TAC. I've seen an infantry platoons rifles TAC a mech's engine 3 times in one round for an instant kill. TACs aren't worth mentioning except in hate-fueled tirades, cursing FASAs name.

I lost a Griffin to an Urbie rocking an RAC in a Megamek match thanks to a TAC. There are screenshots around the 'nets of it.

[Mike Silva]

TAC?

[Insidious Johnson]

Chicks dig big munitions.

[mekredd]

Mike Silva, on 08 May 2012 - 05:43 PM, said:

TAC?

Through-armor critical. It's possible for a weapon to score a critical hit without first penetrating your armor, tho it's rare. But when it happens...

Edited by mekredd, 08 May 2012 - 05:45 PM.

[Mike Silva]

ahhhh, gotcha. Yeah I know what it is, I just never associated it with an acronym.