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Auto Cannion Rounds/AC5 to AC20 ?


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#1 Saren21

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 12:24 PM

Hey everyone,

I am kinda new to the BT/MW universe so if this has been explaned else were please let me know or tell me were this info can be found.

I want to know alitle bit more about AC rounds and Auto cannions them selfs.

( AUTO CANNION ROUNDS)

Are they just large full metal slugs?

Do they have explosive tips ?

Is there a hollow point round that will fragment on impact

If they are explosive how meny turns do they rotate before they become armed ?


(AUTO CANNIONS)

When strikeing a target what kind of DPS are we looking at ?

Are Auto Cannions more then just slug throwers?

How meny AC's types are there ?

What kind of role can i expect to use an AC in? (ie: close range shot gun type or more long to med range type use)

#2 Helmer

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 12:35 PM

Hey!

I'm sure there are many Loremasters out there who could quote bible and verse to you, I'll simply point you to a good resource.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Autocannon

Simply put, the lower the number the lower the damage, but the longer the range.



Cheers.

#3 Coralld

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 12:40 PM

AC weapons fire a standard "HEAP" round, or High Explosive Armor Piercing rounds. The LB-X versions can also fire a secondary round similar to mech size buck shot.

Their cycle time varies but they can usualy pop off a round rather quickly every few second.

Some AC's, depending on the make, fire either a single slug or a quick burst. The number rating of an AC weapon like an AC10 is its damage rating. So a AC10 that fires a quick burst has the same 10 damage rating as one that fires a single solid round.

#4 Der Kommissar

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 12:43 PM

Like modern tank cannon, Battletech autocannon fire kinetic impactors (see the discarding-sabot DU penetrator used by the Abrams) as well as HEAP (high-explosive armor piercing) rounds. As anti-armor weapons, they do not utilize hollow-tipped shells, but a variety of specialized shells exist, such as time-fused flak rounds (which explode in a cloud of shrapnel after a certain amount of time) and frag rounds (which fragment into submunitions deadly against unarmored targets but ineffective against armored ones). Autocannons come in very, very, very many varieties before you even factor in technology level. Some are single-barrel. Some are multi-barrel. Some fire long bursts, and others fire short ones. This is why they are classed, rather than listed by bore size. The Marauder, for example, has a class 5 autocannon that fires a three-round burst of 120mm shells (this is abnormally large for this autocannon class).

DPS is something that is abstracted in tabletop play.

There are many types of autocannons. Basic autocannons, which will appear at launch, I have already described. They fire streams of kinetic or HEAP rounds in a tight radius. Heavier autocannons have shorter bursts, and it's possible that some class 20 autocannon may fire only single shots (they can be upwards of 200mm). Advanced ammunition exists for basic autocannons, such as advanced AP or precision rounds.

LB-X autocannons are more advanced basic autocannons. They can fire HEAP/kinetic rounds like basic autocannons, but they can also fire shells that fragment into explosive submunitions, sometimes referred to colloquially as a "mech-scale shotgun." LB-X autocannons are often lighter, lower-heat, and longer-range than their basic counterparts, but this isn't guaranteed. Fragmentary rounds are less effective against pristine armor but devastating against exposed internals, infantry, and aircraft such as VTOLs.

Ultra autocannons are more advanced basic autocannons, as well. They are autocannons that can be made to fire at twice their normal firing rate, but this runs the risk of causing mechanical damage within the gun that renders it useless for an engagement. Firing at double-rate is also more heat intensive.

Rotary autocannons are something of a misnomer. Any other autocannon may have a rotary barrel arrangement, but RACs always do (even if it's hidden by a barrel shroud). They basically act as an even more advanced UAC, capable of firing at tremendous rates. However, they can jam (not mechanically fail), cause copious levels of heat, burn through ammunition like crazy, and cannot be manufactured in classes above 5.

Autocannon role varies by their class. Class 2 and 5 autocannon are meant to provide long range fire support for relatively low heat. They are effective against aircraft, especially with the right ammunition. On lighter chassis, they may be used in place of a second high-heat energy weapon in order to save tonnage that would be spent on heat sinks. Generally, these autocannon are considered underpowered and overcosted.

Class 10 autocannon are general combat cannon, intended to be used at medium to close range. They deal serious damage for little heat, but are heavy and space-intensive. The LB-10X is a highly effective general purpose heavy cannon, capable of tearing a mech's armor off, then shredding its internals with explosive submunitions.

Class 20 autocannon are short-range, higher-heat autocannon. They are unrivalled in single-hit damage capacity until the arrival of the heavy gauss rifle. The class 20 ultra autocannon, used appropriately, can wreck even large mechs in a very short amount of time. Class 20 autocannon have small magazines and are very heavy, but are highly effective.

#5 Coralld

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 12:57 PM

AC5s are not that bad actually, they are great at taking down conventional armored units and can be a real threat against most lights and some mediums. The Ultra AC5 is very deadly and not to be underestimated by any one, and the RAC5 are just out right vicious and can gut even assault mechs very quickly as long as you can keep them fed and provent from jamming .

#6 UncleKulikov

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 01:12 PM

I'm hoping for a Hunchback with dual AC5s to act as mobile fire support with braces of medium lasers for brawling and after ammo depletion. Hopefully I can fit all that in there.

#7 Der Kommissar

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 01:27 PM

View PostCoralld, on 08 May 2012 - 12:57 PM, said:

AC5s are not that bad actually, they are great at taking down conventional armored units and can be a real threat against most lights and some mediums. The Ultra AC5 is very deadly and not to be underestimated by any one, and the RAC5 are just out right vicious and can gut even assault mechs very quickly as long as you can keep them fed and provent from jamming .


The RAC/5 is in a league of its own and I addressed it seperately.

I personally don't hate AC/5s, but then, I'm not a munchkin.

#8 3Xtr3m3

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 01:31 PM

I want my Rotary

At Launch

Even if it is not Canon

I still want one

*Sigh*

#9 UncleKulikov

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 01:32 PM

View Post3Xtr3m3, on 08 May 2012 - 01:31 PM, said:

I want my Rotary

At Launch

Even if it is not Canon

I still want one

*Sigh*

Agreed. I'd make a Lineback with a RAC in the AC20 slot in a heartbeat.

#10 Coralld

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 01:37 PM

View PostDer Kommissar, on 08 May 2012 - 01:27 PM, said:


The RAC/5 is in a league of its own and I addressed it seperately.

I personally don't hate AC/5s, but then, I'm not a munchkin.

I understand, I was just elaborating a bit on the over all AC5 line up.

When RAC's are finely introduced my battle line will be "RAC em up!!"

Edited by Coralld, 08 May 2012 - 01:41 PM.


#11 Saren21

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 03:36 PM

:D Thank you for clearing things up for me guys you have been alot of help. I will be sure to check out the AC wiki you gave me helmer. ;)

#12 Orzorn

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 03:51 PM

From the techmanual:
For what amounts to one of the most basic combat systems on
the modern battlefi eld, autocannons (often abbreviated as ACs) are
a broadly varied class of rapid-firing, auto-loading, heavy ballistic
weaponry—gigantic machine guns, in other words. With calibers
ranging from 30 to 90 millimeters at the lighter end, to as much as 203
millimeters or more at the heaviest, most autocannons deliver their
damage by firing high-speed streams or bursts of high-explosive,
armor-defeating shells through one or more barrels. While caliber
and firing rate can vary greatly, four main classes have emerged over
the centuries, setting the standards by which all other ACs are rated,
based on their relative ballistic damage. At the lightest end is the AC/2
class, followed by the long-time standard AC/5, then the heavy punch
of the AC/10 class, and finally the brutal, close-in AC/20.
At the dawn of the BattleMech era, only two proven autocannon
models existed: the AC/2 and the AC/5. Production model versions
of the heavier AC/10 and the ’Mech-killing AC/20 did not appear until
after 2460 and 2500, respectively (though the Mackie sported a proto-
type of the AC/10 as far back as its 2443 battlefield debut).
In the centuries since, additional autocannon variants have evolved,
including the cluster-style LB-X, the high-speed Ultra and the multi-
barreled, high-cycle rotary. These three autocannon styles—as well as
the standard models—are discussed below.
[Once again, since the publication of this document, additional
autocannon types—light autocannons—have entered production
and front-line service. They are described in detail below. –EB]

#13 Saren21

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 04:12 PM

View PostOrzorn, on 08 May 2012 - 03:51 PM, said:

From the techmanual:
For what amounts to one of the most basic combat systems on
the modern battlefi eld, autocannons (often abbreviated as ACs) are
a broadly varied class of rapid-firing, auto-loading, heavy ballistic
weaponry—gigantic machine guns, in other words. With calibers
ranging from 30 to 90 millimeters at the lighter end, to as much as 203
millimeters or more at the heaviest, most autocannons deliver their
damage by firing high-speed streams or bursts of high-explosive,
armor-defeating shells through one or more barrels. While caliber
and firing rate can vary greatly, four main classes have emerged over
the centuries, setting the standards by which all other ACs are rated,
based on their relative ballistic damage. At the lightest end is the AC/2
class, followed by the long-time standard AC/5, then the heavy punch
of the AC/10 class, and finally the brutal, close-in AC/20.
At the dawn of the BattleMech era, only two proven autocannon
models existed: the AC/2 and the AC/5. Production model versions
of the heavier AC/10 and the ’Mech-killing AC/20 did not appear until
after 2460 and 2500, respectively (though the Mackie sported a proto-
type of the AC/10 as far back as its 2443 battlefield debut).
In the centuries since, additional autocannon variants have evolved,
including the cluster-style LB-X, the high-speed Ultra and the multi-
barreled, high-cycle rotary. These three autocannon styles—as well as
the standard models—are discussed below.
[Once again, since the publication of this document, additional
autocannon types—light autocannons—have entered production
and front-line service. They are described in detail below. –EB]



ohh cool dose the tech manaul say any thing about the rounds needing a fuse to go off or are they just impact warhead style?

I ask becuase from what i can find they have not given a min range for AC yet in MWO. the AC kinda sounds like the Mk 19 of our time. The rounds with that have to rotate 1 1/2 times in order for the round to become "Hot" (you know go BOOM).

If AC rounds are the same as Mark 19 rounds its an excuse to have a min range for AC in MWO.

Ps. mk 19's are ALOT of fun i had one mounted on my "gun truck" (first on my Duce 1/2 in 2003/2004 then got moved to HUMMV in 2006) Ahh the joys of convoy escort duty... (1st /494th AF Lt/med truck co det under the 1st ID Mousl Iraq then 424th Med TC under the 366th Camp AJ kuwait) any vets want to chat hit me up :D

#14 Orzorn

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 04:19 PM

View PostSaren21, on 08 May 2012 - 04:12 PM, said:



ohh cool dose the tech manaul say any thing about the rounds needing a fuse to go off or are they just impact warhead style?

I ask becuase from what i can find they have not given a min range for AC yet in MWO. the AC kinda sounds like the Mk 19 of our time. The rounds with that have to rotate 1 1/2 times in order for the round to become "Hot" (you know go BOOM).

If AC rounds are the same as Mark 19 rounds its an excuse to have a min range for AC in MWO.

Ps. mk 19's are ALOT of fun i had one mounted on my "gun truck" (first on my Duce 1/2 in 2003/2004 then got moved to HUMMV in 2006) Ahh the joys of convoy escort duty... (1st /494th AF Lt/med truck co det under the 1st ID Mousl Iraq then 424th Med TC under the 366th Camp AJ kuwait) any vets want to chat hit me up :D

No mention of any reason why they would have a minimum range. Likely a gameplay choice on their part rather than a logical one.

Regardless, here's the entry on autocannon ammunition:

Having long maintained an almost romantic affinity for the classic auto-
cannon, the Federated Suns—primarily through the NAIS—expended
enormous amounts of time and resources to expand the utility of these
old reliable weapons. While some efforts wound up merely refining the
likes of up-and-coming autocannon models such as rotaries and Ultras,
the debut of specialized ammunitions—many first test-fired in the mid-
3050s—breathed new life into the older standard classes.

The Clans have yet to field any specialized autocannon munitions in
combat, save for LB-X cluster munitions. The reasons why are unclear,
but engineers have considered the lack of standard-style ACs in the Clan
arsenal as one possible reason, coupled with the usage of diff erent alloys
and propellants than those of Spheroid autocannons that render such
specialty ammo more a liability than a boon.

Armor-Piercing Ammunition: First prototyped by the FedSuns in 3053
and reaching standard production by 3059, armor-piercing (AP) ammo uses
advanced ballistic materials and improved anti-armor warheads to deliver
a punch hard enough to damage internal systems through otherwise fresh
armor. Available solely to standard AC types, the drawback to this greater
punch is the fact that the increased weight of this ammo impairs its firing
accuracy and the number of rounds that can be loaded into a given bin.

Flechette Ammunition: Developed by the FedSuns in 3055 for stan-
dard ACs, flechette munitions deliver a shotgun-like blast of metal shards
rather than a stream of shells. Intended for use against infantry, flechette
rounds can wipe out entire platoons of conventional troops in seconds
and can even ravage battle-armored squads, but this ammo type loses
effectiveness against armored targets such as vehicles and ‘Mechs.

Precision Ammunition: The most sophisticated of the advanced muni-
tions for standard ACs, precision ammo was developed in 3062. This ammo
type uses specialized gyrojet shells that incorporate advanced targeting
circuitry, enabling them to auto-correct their aim while in flight. Highly
expensive and heavy to boot, use of precision ammo—particularly in the
higher calibers—can leave an attacker empty in surprisingly short order.
LB-X Cluster Ammunition: Cluster munitions for the LB-X AC series
debuted, went extinct and were recovered at the same time as the LB-X class
of ACs themselves. These munitions may only be used by LB-X class auto-
cannons and do not benefit from targeting computer assistance because of
their scattershot nature, but are effective against nearly all battlefield units,
particularly vehicles and aircraft.

Edited by Orzorn, 08 May 2012 - 04:20 PM.


#15 Saren21

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 04:33 PM

Has there been any talk on what type of ammo we will have avaible to us at the launch of MWO?

Thank you for all the info Orzorn, you have been a big help.

#16 Solis Obscuri

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 05:23 PM

Cannions? :D

#17 Geist Null

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 05:29 PM

View PostUncleKulikov, on 08 May 2012 - 01:12 PM, said:

I'm hoping for a Hunchback with dual AC5s to act as mobile fire support with braces of medium lasers for brawling and after ammo depletion. Hopefully I can fit all that in there.

Pauls video of the mechlab had him pulling the ac/20 and putting an ac5 and a machine gun in. that leads me to believe u can fit 2 ac/5s in that node. ultra/5's should be out by then too, its the same effect and you'd have lots of room to spare

#18 Coralld

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 06:10 PM

View PostUncleKulikov, on 08 May 2012 - 01:12 PM, said:

I'm hoping for a Hunchback with dual AC5s to act as mobile fire support with braces of medium lasers for brawling and after ammo depletion. Hopefully I can fit all that in there.

Isant there already a Hunchback variant with two AC5s? Never mind, I was thinking of the HBK-4N, it has an AC5 and two LRM5 with two medium lasers added.





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