34 replies to this topic

[Catamount]

Jack Corban, on 09 May 2012 - 05:44 AM, said:

One thing though. Some of you recommended "Radeon Cards" i have always prefered Nvidia Cards to be honest. Simply because they are better supported on a range of Games aswell as their Drivers get more love in the same time period compared to Radeon Cards. So what i'm saying is basicly that i will stick to a Geforce if possible.

Despite being one of the more common misconceptions, it's just that, a misconception (basically FUD pushed by Nvidia)

At one time, this was true, but it hasn't been for years. The only thing that matters is performance, and sometimes power draw (more for laptops than desktops), and the 7870 is simply a faster card (Guru3D's review shows it outrunning the 560 Core 448 in every modern game, and HardOCP shows the 7870 handily outrunning the 570)

[Xaks]

I'll be honest, AMD and ATI hardware runs hotter and sucks more power than equivalent OTHER hardware, whether NVidia GPUs or Intel CPUs.

Plus, Intel CPUs are about 1.5 to 2 generations ahead of AMDs; Intel's new chips are all coming on 22 namometer dies, where AMD is still pushing 32s and 28s.

If you see AMD match performance with Intels, look closely, as its usually accounting tricks or bullshit tests designed to look that way.

I'll pay a little extra for Intel and NVidia. This is just my opinion, and it is what I do when I build new machines (which I kinda do for a living, so take that for what it is worth).

[Catamount]

Xaks, on 09 May 2012 - 09:04 AM, said:

I'll be honest, AMD and ATI hardware runs hotter and sucks more power than equivalent OTHER hardware, whether NVidia GPUs or Intel CPUs.

Plus, Intel CPUs are about 1.5 to 2 generations ahead of AMDs; Intel's new chips are all coming on 22 namometer dies, where AMD is still pushing 32s and 28s.

If you see AMD match performance with Intels, look closely, as its usually accounting tricks or bullshit tests designed to look that way.

I'll pay a little extra for Intel and NVidia. This is just my opinion, and it is what I do when I build new machines (which I kinda do for a living, so take that for what it is worth).

Radeon HD 7970: 195W vs Geforce GTX 580: 280W

Radeon HD 7870: 127W vs Geforce GTX 560 TI Core 448: 188W

Radeon HD 7770: 86W vs Geforce GTX 550 TI: 85-125W*


*All numbers are from Guru3D for an apples to apples comparison except the base 560TI which they didn't review, so I gave the range of three other sites (TH, Anandtech and Hardware Canucks).

In all of those comparisons, I'm comparing a faster AMD card to a slower Nvidia card, and the AMD cards STILL draw less power. When it was the Radeon HD 5000 series vs the Geforce 400 series, the gap was even bigger in AMD's favor.


The only Nvidia card that provides even as much gaming performance for power draw, let alone more, as AMD cards, is the 680, and only because the 7970 is a GPGPU card while the 680 is a strict gaming card (the 7970 actually seems more powerful in terms of raw performance, it just renders games slower, while blowing the 680 away in other applications).

Edited by Catamount, 09 May 2012 - 12:38 PM.

[CrazedGunman]

Shepard, on 08 May 2012 - 11:31 PM, said:

Don't forget FSP, if it's available for cheap there.

I would like it to be publicly known that FSP's never die. I have had a 400w unit for close to 7 years now that refuses to die and at its age has seen serious use and abuse, has had the fan replaced twice and still lives on. I buy them because I know they live forever and they're stable, clean, and efficient. I don't know anyone who's owned one that didn't absolutely swear by it.

Xaks, on 09 May 2012 - 09:04 AM, said:

I'll be honest, AMD and ATI hardware runs hotter and sucks more power than equivalent OTHER hardware, whether NVidia GPUs or Intel CPUs.

This GTX590 will pay for itself with the money you save on your heating bills. Fermi core ran notoriously warm.
Not trying to start a flamewar (pun intended), but I'm not a fanboy either way, I'm a man without a country on a budget, so AMD has a tendency to win.

Edited by CrazedGunman, 09 May 2012 - 01:32 PM.

[Fresh Meat]

You could always stick with the integrated GPU until the GTX 680/670 are more available. After all you have time to wait, this game wont be out for a few months.

I got a 680 and love it, idles at 29c and only uses 10% power most the time. Never seen it go above 63c when gaming too, that's with a slightly more aggressive fan setup though.

[Catamount]

CrazedGunman, on 09 May 2012 - 01:23 PM, said:

This GTX590 will pay for itself with the money you save on your heating bills. Fermi core ran notoriously warm.
Not trying to start a flamewar (pun intended), but I'm not a fanboy either way, I'm a man without a country on a budget, so AMD has a tendency to win.

Is that really a GTX 590 running with a core temp of 112C?!

Why isn't that thing shutting off?! I'd be surprised if the card lived through more than a few hours of that.

[Xaks]

OK, so in the most recent itieration, one generations of GPUs, the ATI hardware actually manages some wins.

Grats.

Care to do any of that comparison shopping to other GPU renditions or families? Or to CPUs at all?

Or to chipsets, or any thing else for that matter?

When you can, let me know. Sure, sure, the Washington Generals have managed to beat the Globetrotters a couple of times, but do you want to really try and bet on them with YOUR money?

[Catamount]

Xaks, on 09 May 2012 - 03:58 PM, said:

OK, so in the most recent itieration, one generations of GPUs, the ATI hardware actually manages some wins.

Grats.

Care to do any of that comparison shopping to other GPU renditions or families? Or to CPUs at all?

Or to chipsets, or any thing else for that matter?

When you can, let me know. Sure, sure, the Washington Generals have managed to beat the Globetrotters a couple of times, but do you want to really try and bet on them with YOUR money?

For someone who likes to draw sports analogies, you're sure poor at keeping score.

That's three generations, not one generation, namely Evergreen, Northern Islands, and Southern Islands, and I don't have to bet my money anywhere, because there are empirical measurements to go off of to decide which cards are better.


You see, unlike you, most of use here aren't hardcore fanboys who have to commit to lifelong dedication to a single brand. When Nvidia cards are better, I buy Nvidia cards, and when AMD cards are better, I buy AMD cards, and it's something I judge by the facts of how present cards perform, not some irrelevant brand preference.

You made a claim that is factually false, and does not apply to the here and now, nor any shopping decisions to be made in the here and now. Next time be a big boy and simply admit your mistake, or say nothing, but please don't dance around the issue in retort after giving incorrect information and being called on it. It contributes nothing to this forum.


As for CPUs and chipsets, can you show me where I've told the OP that AMD CPUs or chipsets are superior? No?

Okay, do you know what we call that? We call it a red herring. You'd best avoid doing that in the future.

Edited by Catamount, 09 May 2012 - 04:13 PM.

[Xaks]

Oh, yea great. So, the 7000 series of ATI cards is superior to NVidia cards.

GO YOU!

Look, feel free to like whatever cards you want. I don't care.

I've got years and years of stable, fast gaming rigs under my belt, and I'm running an Nvidia GPU and an Intel CPU right now. Over my time as a builder, they are consistently the better buy.

Feel free to 'red herring' with your strawman. (See what I did there?) Go ahead and occasionally get the ATI card that is faster and cooler and less of a power draw.

The amount of time you **** away going over 50 reviews of every single possible bench test of obscure applications to look for that one-in-a-dozen )or less!) cards that manages to outperform a single NVidia card is noones but your own.

I'll just save time and money over the long haul by buying the consistent better performer.

Hey, whatever floats your boat.

[Jack Corban]

Could we come back on Topic please ?
All in all you both seem to have a lot of knowledge about PC Hardware.
So please tell me what GPU to take for my system.

Please make a recommendation based on current Cards cuz i'm planing on ordering on 1st of June.

Edit:

Current setup based on some recommendations is like this.


OS: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit
MB: ASRock Z77Pro4 Intel Z77 So.1155 Dual
RAM: 8GB G.Skill Ripjaws DDR3-1600 DIMM CL9
CPU: Intel Core i5 3570K 4x 3.40GHz So.1155 BOX
COOLING: Scythe Mugen 3 Rev.B SCMG-3100
GPU: 2048MB Gigabyte Radeon HD 7870 OC
HDD: 1000GB Western Digital Caviar Blue --> Data Storage
SSD: 256GB Crucial m4 SSD CT256M4SSD2 2.5" --> System/Games
CD/DVD: Samsung DVD-Rom SH-D163C/BEBE SATA
PSU: 580W be quiet! Straight Power CM BQT E8
CASE: Corsair Carbide 500R Midi Tower
LCD: 24" (60,96cm) LG Electronics Flatron

this all comes at € 1.394,64*

Edited by Jack Corban, 09 May 2012 - 05:08 PM.

[Xaks]

That looks pretty good mon. You'll be happy with that performance.

The only real questions I would ask:

Be sure the PSU has enough horses. 580 might not be enough. I t might be, but it's a little lighter than I would be comfortable with.

And, again a personal bias, make sure the case you are getting has the airflow and doodads you are looking for. My Thor is pretty much everything I could ask for, but I paid dearly for it. But I wanted 5 140mm+ fans with rheostat controllers, cause my office is rather warm (live in Florida).

[Catamount]

Xaks, on 09 May 2012 - 04:17 PM, said:

random irrelevant attempts to run around and show I'm a rabid fanboy

and now, rather than saying anything of use, you're being a petulant child; three posts and you haven't actually contributed a single useful fact to this entire discussion.

Fine; I've shown that you're incorrect and are giving information that hasn't been true in years, and that's as much as I need to say to or about you. I'll respond further when you say something of actual value.

Jack Corban, on 09 May 2012 - 04:46 PM, said:

Could we come back on Topic please ?
All in all you both seem to have a lot of knowledge about PC Hardware.
So please tell me what GPU to take for my system.

Please make a recommendation based on current Cards cuz i'm planing on ordering on 1st of June.

Well it depends on what will fit into your budget.

I wouldn't get anything lower-end than a Radeon HD 7870, myself, so that basically leaves you with the Radeon HD 7870, GTX 580, 7970, and 680, which all exist at different pricepoints, and will all do fine.

The problem is that we need a complete build to fit the card into so we know what kind of money you have, and to start that, we'll have to know what specific country you're in so we can find a place to assemble the build. DV'McKenna gave a couple of really good generalized builds. Once we know where you're actually ordering this machine, several of us should be able to suggest parts in greater specifics.

Edit: I see above, so let me figure out what you're looking at for money. The only generalized advice I'd give is to fit the single fastest GPU you can afford, especially considering the budget, which warrants a nice GPU.

Edited by Catamount, 09 May 2012 - 05:16 PM.

[Fresh Meat]

the 670 is launching may 10th, but availability is questionable. It does reportedly beat the 7970 and at $400 is damn good

[Catamount]

OP, here's a few places you could shave off some money:

First, the PSU is likely far more than you need (do you intend to do a lot of overclocking? If not, you could even step down in wattage, though it won't save much)

This PSU would basically do the same thing for a bit less: http://www.mindfacto...ze-Modular.html

This would work too (Super Flower units are pretty decent, used by several good brands): http://www.mindfacto...o-80--Gold.html


For the HDD, you're getting an extremely expensive HDD, considering the inflated prices at the moment. The HDD market is such that now is just not a good time to be investing huge sums of money. So I'd say step down to a 1TB drive.

This would do fine: http://www.mindfacto...-SATA-6Gb-.html



Beyond that, I think the build is good, but now you have about 100 euros more to play with. Normally, I'd say upgrade the GPU, but at 200 euros, it's hard to beat that 560 (a 7870 is a better card, but enough to be worth paying 280 instead of 200? No).

If I were you, I'd use that money to get an SSD.

Something like this would fit the bill nicely:

http://www.mindfacto...SAT3-120G-.html

You could also get some nice sound gear for that price, instead.


I'm using these at Vuples recommendation, and couldn't be happier:

http://www.mindfacto...by-7-1-USB.html


Or you could just pocket the money

[DV McKenna]

Jack Corban, on 09 May 2012 - 04:46 PM, said:

Could we come back on Topic please ?
All in all you both seem to have a lot of knowledge about PC Hardware.
So please tell me what GPU to take for my system.

Please make a recommendation based on current Cards cuz i'm planing on ordering on 1st of June.

Edit:

Current setup based on some recommendations is like this.


OS: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit
MB: ASRock Z77Pro4 Intel Z77 So.1155 Dual
RAM: 8GB G.Skill Ripjaws DDR3-1600 DIMM CL9
CPU: Intel Core i5 3570K 4x 3.40GHz So.1155 BOX
COOLING: Scythe Mugen 3 Rev.B SCMG-3100
GPU: 2048MB Gigabyte Radeon HD 7870 OC
HDD: 1000GB Western Digital Caviar Blue --> Data Storage
SSD: 256GB Crucial m4 SSD CT256M4SSD2 2.5" --> System/Games
CD/DVD: Samsung DVD-Rom SH-D163C/BEBE SATA
PSU: 580W be quiet! Straight Power CM BQT E8
CASE: Corsair Carbide 500R Midi Tower
LCD: 24" (60,96cm) LG Electronics Flatron

this all comes at € 1.394,64*

This is pretty good, i personally would go for a 650W/750W PSU, you likely won't out right need it, but should you change anything in the future that 580W may be an issue.

And last thing your in europe, so you have an advantage over the US folks in the CPU cooling department and can pick up one of these http://www.mindfacto...-und-Intel.html

It gets some of the best reviews across the board as being one of the best air coolers on the market, and its only available in the EU.

Edited by DV^McKenna, 09 May 2012 - 10:45 PM.