66 replies to this topic

[Agent of Change]

Kousagi, on 28 November 2012 - 01:41 PM, said:

Its already a viable mech, so your poll is kinda bias. Just wait for ECM to come out, and there will be crys of OP raven. As I already have a setup for a raven with ECM that does the same damage as a jenner, same speed, and same armor, just no jumpjets, which is a small price to pay for ECM.

biased, hell yeah i'm biased but absolutely in favor of the raven already being viable and this just makes it more so. I even said as much in my OP. The poll simply asks a straight forward question with a yes/no/maybe format, I'm wondering where you got your conclusion from?

Edited by Agent of Change, 28 November 2012 - 02:27 PM.

[p00k]

the raven can take missiles, giving them some defense against lagshielded jenners (which will still be superior, but i foresee more jenner-f's to skirmish with class-matched lights using pure energy builds assuming raven/commando players start taking ecm
.
also, the raven is a noticeably smaller mech with a much smaller profile. especially with collisions likely months away from re-implementation, a raven can hug an atlas's legs and be too short to be hit by torso weapons

[Kryptic57]

Squid von Torgar, on 28 November 2012 - 02:20 PM, said:

I am so please that PGI have taken this decision. It really helps the humble raven, and avoids over buffing the already powerful Jenny.

Here you go Jenny pilots, for you

I think you will find that most Jenner pilots also support this decision

[Squid von Torgar]

Quote

I think you will find that most Jenner pilots also support this decision

I hope so

[3rdworld]

If you think the raven is currently viable you are out of touch with competitive matches.

protip competitive play isn't 4-man pug stomping.

[Vassago Rain]

Kryptic57, on 28 November 2012 - 01:53 PM, said:

Yay what a great victory for mech diversity!!! Also, who cares if the raven is "sub-optimal" vs a jenner, it brings something different to the table and that has value.

Being the only fork in a collection of spoons isn't a good thing, no matter how different you are.
If ECM is only on gimp mechs, no one will bother with ECM, for the simple reason it's on a gimp mech. The most uber E-warfare raven still dies in seconds to any hobo jenner out there.

[Mercules]

Vassago Rain, on 28 November 2012 - 02:30 PM, said:

Being the only fork in a collection of spoons isn't a good thing, no matter how different you are.
If ECM is only on gimp mechs, no one will bother with ECM, for the simple reason it's on a gimp mech. The most uber E-warfare raven still dies in seconds to any hobo jenner out there.

You're assuming the Jenner doesn't get blasted into little bits by the 3 other mechs hiding under the Raven's ECM, right?

[Kaijin]

Kryptic57, on 28 November 2012 - 02:27 PM, said:

I think you will find that most Jenner pilots also support this decision

There are many, and I am one of them. It may come as a shock, but there are players in favor of nerfing this or buffing that not because of how it will make their favorite mech better or worse, but rather in favor of game diversity and balance.

Edited by Kaijin, 28 November 2012 - 03:51 PM.

[Mercules]

3rdworld, on 28 November 2012 - 02:30 PM, said:

If you think the raven is currently viable you are out of touch with competitive matches.

protip competitive play isn't 4-man pug stomping.

Please, tell me what competitive matches you have been playing in lately?

[hammerreborn]

Mercules, on 28 November 2012 - 02:38 PM, said:

You're assuming the Jenner doesn't get blasted into little bits by the 3 other mechs hiding under the Raven's ECM, right?

But I was told that jenners (wow curse you autocorrect) were the most overpowered mech that could even lag shield frieza's death ball that blew up namek and was the reason for removing ECM from them. Now you're telling me you can hit them? ******** I say, ********.

Stupid decision. Raven is still a useless mech.

Edited by hammerreborn, 28 November 2012 - 02:43 PM.

[3rdworld]

Mercules, on 28 November 2012 - 02:41 PM, said:

Please, tell me what competitive matches you have been playing in lately?

The ones when the raven could mount a 300xl and still no one used it because it is inferior to the jenner.

Now they have limited them to a 285, do you think they have suddenly gotten better?

[shabowie]

Jen will still be the superior scout/light cav mech in D or F form.

Raven will be a very niche mech, but at least gain some use in an Electronic Warfare role (unless... see below).

Commando as a much smaller mech remains second fiddle in both those roles without battle value or some other system used to make them viable (all light for class mechs will suffer same problem).

With mechs like the Atlas D-DC having ECM its difficult for me to imagine how the Ewar system is gonna pan out. I could easily see it becoming something that just gets carried with the heavy hitters on both sides and ends up being a wash somehow with a little minigame that involves managing these little 180 bubbles and areas where they overlap.

Have to see what it really ends up being.

Edited by shabowie, 28 November 2012 - 02:48 PM.

[bikerbass77]

3rdworld, on 28 November 2012 - 02:30 PM, said:

If you think the raven is currently viable you are out of touch with competitive matches.

protip competitive play isn't 4-man pug stomping.

You seem to be ignorant of the strengths of the Raven and the role it is built for. It is an electronics warfare scout which means that its focus is not combat - but stealth and information gathering. While the Jenner is made with the ability to be a scout simply due to its speed, that is a secondary role for it. Its main rationale is as a scout killer and skirmisher.

Quite simply you are comparing machines designed for different functions. It is like comparing a Samurai to a Ninja. While both are good in a fight, the Ninja works by deception, stealth and cunning in the main part and combat only when things go wrong. The Samurai is a brawler with good armour and excellent straight combat skills. He can still move about well, but he would be hard pressed to sneak up on someone and poison their tea.

Even through these roles some builds for the Raven can also be exceptionally powerful. These include builds with simply an engine, an AC20 and as much armour as you can fit after ammo (this is deadly when used with team work) as well as more conventional builds that include full armour, decent speed, 2 medium pulse lasers, an SRM 6 and an SRM2. Both of those are more powerful than any Jenner build I have yet come across. Also with 2 missile points there is the possibility to use it for LRM support (as mad an idea as that may be) showing just how flexible the chassis can be.

[Aurias]

...The Raven isn't a viable competitive chassis?
someone tell that to my enemies

[Mercules]

hammerreborn, on 28 November 2012 - 02:42 PM, said:

But I was told that jenners (wow curse you autocorrect) were the most overpowered mech that could even lag shield frieza's death ball that blew up namek and was the reason for removing ECM from them. Now you're telling me you can hit them? ******** I say, ********.

Stupid decision. Raven is still a useless mech.

I kill Jenners all the time... in my Commando. I know... I know... sacrilege, it just can't be true.

3rdworld, on 28 November 2012 - 02:43 PM, said:

The ones when the raven could mount a 300xl and still no one used it because it is inferior to the jenner.

Now they have limited them to a 285, do you think they have suddenly gotten better?

Totally missed that word, "lately" eh? Really, you haven't played in a "competitive" game yet in mechwarrior unless you happened upon the rare 8 Man pre-made Player Association group versus the same back in Closed Beta. Most of those back then, however, were still PUGs, just PUGs with voice. So really "competitive" experience claims are laughable.

[p00k]

Mercules, on 28 November 2012 - 03:00 PM, said:

I kill Jenners all the time... in my Commando. I know... I know... sacrilege, it just can't be true.

and i kill commandos all the time in my jenner. not sucking at the game still makes a difference.

but, in the time it's taken me to master 3 jenners with an extra ~80k exp to spare (plus finish basics on 2 jenner variants in closed beta with ~100k exp to spare), i have never been killed by a commando. ever. not even once. in any jenner variant. can you say, in your commando, you've never been killed by a jenner, ever? if you can, my apologies and congratulations

[3rdworld]

Mercules, on 28 November 2012 - 03:00 PM, said:

Totally missed that word, "lately" eh? Really, you haven't played in a "competitive" game yet in mechwarrior unless you happened upon the rare 8 Man pre-made Player Association group versus the same back in Closed Beta. Most of those back then, however, were still PUGs, just PUGs with voice. So really "competitive" experience claims are laughable.

You really have no idea what you are talking about.

[Scytale]

3rdworld, on 28 November 2012 - 03:12 PM, said:

You really have no idea what you are talking about.

In all seriousness, how does one play in a competitive match under the current system?

[Mercules]

3rdworld, on 28 November 2012 - 03:12 PM, said:

You really have no idea what you are talking about.

On the contrary. I understand that you think you had some "Competitive Play" at some point in time in MWO's Betas. As the group function has been random as to who you drop against you really can't be sure you have ever played against an actual team that would be competition. It is remotely possible that once or twice in Closed Beta your 8 man team dropped against another 8 man team that actually played together more than that night/week, but those matches were extremely rare in my experience. Most of the time when you hopped on Team Speak you grabbed a few people you knew, filled out the rest, and then dropped and saw if you got 8 lonely people, an 8 man team, or something inbetween. Even the 8 man teams were, as I said, PUGs with voice because they gathered on TS 20 minutes ago. Not exactly "competitive".

[Agent of Change]

3rdworld, on 28 November 2012 - 02:30 PM, said:

If you think the raven is currently viable you are out of touch with competitive matches.

protip competitive play isn't 4-man pug stomping.

If you read my post you would have known that i said i would run it anyway. because i like ravens, simply asking the question doesn't make me think they weren't before I'm just putting it out there because of how many people i have heard tell me (when i say i use them) that they not.

Aurias, on 28 November 2012 - 02:54 PM, said:

...The Raven isn't a viable competitive chassis?
someone tell that to my enemies

Damn skippy, I've been eating jenners (among every thing larger than me) for a while now, in an 'inferior' mech.