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Nvidia Gt240 > Radeon Hd7770 ? The Heck?


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#1 Skyfaller

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Posted 30 November 2012 - 05:13 PM

My system:

AMD Phenom II Quad core 955 BE 3.2ghz
16gb DDR3 1333mhz ram (2x8)
MSI 870A-G54 Mobo

Before (before last week): Nvidia GT240 1gb ram

FPS @ max graphic settings: 20
FPS @ min graphic settings: 30
(even in combat and smoke, no stuttering)



After (since last week) : MSI Radeon HD7770 1gb

FPS @ max graphic settings: 38~
FPS @ min graphic settings: 48~

...but suffers from strange stuttering when mechs enter draw range. Something the old nvidia never did.

Both cards were tested with latest drivers and with the drivers 2 months old (to test for stability). Results didn't change.


So.. i'm confused here. I know the HD7770 isnt top of the line but it really is a big upgrade over the GT240 overall. The FPS increase however is not what I expected and the stuttering has me mystified. I've tried every setting change I could think of and it still stutters.


Thoughts?

#2 Volume

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 03:50 AM

I don't understand your topic title. You nearly doubled your FPS. Like a 1.9x incease. How does this make the GT240 greater than the 7770HD?

Secondly, assuming all drivers are up to date and this stuttering doesn't happen in other applications, this indicates to me that the video card is not properly powered. What's the PSU that you're using for this setup?

That said, MWO is horribly optimized, CryEngine 3 favors Nvidia cards, and beta is beta.

#3 Vulpesveritas

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 03:52 AM

View PostVolume, on 01 December 2012 - 03:50 AM, said:

I don't understand your topic title. You nearly doubled your FPS. Like a 1.9x incease. How does this make the GT240 greater than the 7770HD?

Secondly, assuming all drivers are up to date and this stuttering doesn't happen in other applications, this indicates to me that the video card is not properly powered. What's the PSU that you're using for this setup?

That said, MWO is horribly optimized, CryEngine 3 favors Nvidia cards, and beta is beta.

Actually, CryEngine 3 is GPU-Neutral.
Posted Image

#4 Kurayami

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 04:05 AM

cry engine 3 runs on magic. especially in MWO case where no matter what kind of rig one use fps is still too damn low.

fyi after latest patch my rig (i5 3.4 8 gb of ram gf560ti 1gb) runs at 30 min (nonbugged. 2-3 with bugs like blur) 60 max (nonbugged 7-10 with meme leak) but with the same weird stuttering from time to time.

Edited by Kurayami, 01 December 2012 - 04:07 AM.


#5 DV McKenna

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 04:51 AM

Stuttering on a single card, hmmm sounds like you should try to play with Vsync on, and then come back to us.

#6 Sen

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 06:30 AM

Did you try running the latest BETA drivers from ATi? [catalyst 12.11]?
[I know you said you tried "latest" drivers, but "latest" doesn't tell us what driver it actually WAS, hence the Just in case]
If you haven't:

http://support.amd.c...betadriver.aspx

Did you completely uninstall all Nvidia AND ATi drivers, make sure all the folders were deleted and run driver sweeper to remove all traces of the old drivers [I hate recommending that, but it HAS helped with issues like this]

I've seen issues like this, but not since the 10.x driver days. Had to completely uninstall, go into control panel and remove/delete the driver in System, reboot in safe mode, run driver sweeper. . essentially blow EVERYTHING out

I'm kinda shocked, really. . . recently ATi drivers have been really good about upgrading.

#7 Skyfaller

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 07:19 AM

View PostVolume, on 01 December 2012 - 03:50 AM, said:

I don't understand your topic title. You nearly doubled your FPS. Like a 1.9x incease. How does this make the GT240 greater than the 7770HD?

Secondly, assuming all drivers are up to date and this stuttering doesn't happen in other applications, this indicates to me that the video card is not properly powered. What's the PSU that you're using for this setup?

That said, MWO is horribly optimized, CryEngine 3 favors Nvidia cards, and beta is beta.


I say it seems better since the GT240 never had stutters even though it provided 10 less fps avg.

Its one thing to play at 22fp with no stutters and another to play at near 40 with stutters. Stutters kill your gameplay.

View PostDV McKenna, on 01 December 2012 - 04:51 AM, said:

Stuttering on a single card, hmmm sounds like you should try to play with Vsync on, and then come back to us.


Hmm didn't think of that. By default I keep it off since vsync causes tons of problems on most games. I'll try that.

View PostSen, on 01 December 2012 - 06:30 AM, said:

Did you try running the latest BETA drivers from ATi? [catalyst 12.11]?
[I know you said you tried "latest" drivers, but "latest" doesn't tell us what driver it actually WAS, hence the Just in case]
If you haven't:

http://support.amd.c...betadriver.aspx

Did you completely uninstall all Nvidia AND ATi drivers, make sure all the folders were deleted and run driver sweeper to remove all traces of the old drivers [I hate recommending that, but it HAS helped with issues like this]

I've seen issues like this, but not since the 10.x driver days. Had to completely uninstall, go into control panel and remove/delete the driver in System, reboot in safe mode, run driver sweeper. . essentially blow EVERYTHING out

I'm kinda shocked, really. . . recently ATi drivers have been really good about upgrading.


Latest but not beta.

I'll do the drive cleaner thing.

Thanks. We'll see if any of this works :)

#8 Skyfaller

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 08:07 AM

Vsync on, drive cleaner ran in safe mode and removed all nvidia stuff...

still stutters.

Next try the beta drivers.

PSU is a 600W so its got more than enough juice to run the entire rig.

#9 Vulpesveritas

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 08:53 AM

View PostSkyfaller, on 01 December 2012 - 08:07 AM, said:

Vsync on, drive cleaner ran in safe mode and removed all nvidia stuff...

still stutters.

Next try the beta drivers.

PSU is a 600W so its got more than enough juice to run the entire rig.

PSU listed wattage means nothing. what brand is it.

Also, there is a chance you got a bad card. It's possibly a bad chip / VRM / caps / sodering causing improper power supply or the chip itself may need more voltage. In any case, if the drivers don't help, I would talk to MSI about getting a new card. Things do get past quality control.

#10 BLOODREDSINGLE

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 09:29 AM

Its not his PSU, the same thing happens to me when mechs enter my view and Im running an GTX580. The engine is horrible... period.

And those graphcs mean nothing in this game.... Crysis 2 is ran off Cryengine 2... This is Cryengine 3.

#11 Vulpesveritas

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 10:35 AM

View PostBLOODREDSINGLE, on 01 December 2012 - 09:29 AM, said:

Its not his PSU, the same thing happens to me when mechs enter my view and Im running an GTX580. The engine is horrible... period.

And those graphcs mean nothing in this game.... Crysis 2 is ran off Cryengine 2... This is Cryengine 3.

Umm... you're a bit mistaken there. Crysis 2 ran on CryENGINE 3, Crysis was CryENGINE 2, and Far Cry was CryENGINE 1.

#12 Sen

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 11:11 AM

Bear in mind the catalyst 12.11 beta drivers offer a HUGE performance with 7xxx series cards over 12.10.

http://www.techpower...11_Performance/

For your consideration :)

#13 Skyfaller

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 01:01 PM

yes but they don't work in winxp :(

#14 Volume

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 09:31 PM

The real question is did they patch the game in that week between graphics cards? Because if so, performance might be messed up in an unrelated fashion.

#15 maxx2504

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 10:25 PM

View PostSkyfaller, on 01 December 2012 - 01:01 PM, said:

yes but they don't work in winxp :(


So that means you are using still WinXP ? Try Win7 64bit and u WILL get abetter performance....

#16 Sen

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 04:53 AM

Quote

yes but they don't work in winxp


Yea, there's part of the problem right there. It may be time to consider moving to the 21st century with a 64 bit version of windows. *I* personally love windows 8 as it's cheaper, easier to use [yes it is, but I'm computer literate and have been using it since beta] and best of all, you'll be all prepared for when Windows Blue launches sometime next year.

This is where I'd start. Beware of microsoft update however. If you buy the cheap upgrade license online, it will upgrade you with the same version of windows. So in your case, as you're running XP, if you bought the online upgrade to Win 8, you'd get the 32 bit version. There is a workaround, however:


Quote

32-bit versus 64-bit
I have a PC running 32-bit Windows XP Pro. It has a 64-bit processor, but after upgrading, I found the 32-bit version installed

As you discovered, the Windows download from Microsoft matches the system from which you initiate the download. So if you purchase the download on a system running 32-bit Windows, your downloaded setup file will also be 32-bit.

But there’s an easy (and legal) way to get a 64-bit downloader, as long as you have access to a PC running any 64-bit version of Windows (including Windows 8).

After you complete the purchase, you will receive an email confirmation that includes a product key and a download link. From a 64-bit PC, click that download link and enter the product key you received. The download will commence, and when it finishes, you will have a 64-bit Windows installer that you can save as an ISO or burn to bootable media.


http://www.zdnet.com...faq-7000006815/

respectively, you can buy an upgrade disc from any retai location, which may be both easier and safer.

Windows 7 is also an option, but is more expensive and, with Microsoft moving to an Apple like yearly update scheme, very likely get left in the dust support-wise.

Edited by Sen, 04 December 2012 - 04:57 AM.


#17 Tarl Cabot

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 05:50 AM

Just to note and your mileage will vary.

I have a dual boot machine with XP 32/Win8 64 on it. The FPS difference between the two is drastic as of the week of 11/25/12 (last time I logged into the XP partition.

XP/32 was running between 30-40 FPS with/wo VSync and stuttering. I have forgotten I had booted into XP .
Win8/64 runs at 60 DPS W/Vsync and no stutter.

I5-3570k running at 4.2g OC/8megs memory/ATI HD 7950 3gigs

I ensured I had the newest ATI driver and made some adjustments but no dice. But now with at least one player seeing the same thing, I will play around with it more under XP to troubleshoot it more.

#18 Vulpesveritas

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 06:18 AM

View PostSen, on 04 December 2012 - 04:53 AM, said:


Yea, there's part of the problem right there. It may be time to consider moving to the 21st century with a 64 bit version of windows. *I* personally love windows 8 as it's cheaper, easier to use [yes it is, but I'm computer literate and have been using it since beta] and best of all, you'll be all prepared for when Windows Blue launches sometime next year.

This is where I'd start. Beware of microsoft update however. If you buy the cheap upgrade license online, it will upgrade you with the same version of windows. So in your case, as you're running XP, if you bought the online upgrade to Win 8, you'd get the 32 bit version. There is a workaround, however:




http://www.zdnet.com...faq-7000006815/

respectively, you can buy an upgrade disc from any retai location, which may be both easier and safer.

Windows 7 is also an option, but is more expensive and, with Microsoft moving to an Apple like yearly update scheme, very likely get left in the dust support-wise.

Except a large number of businesses are pledging to stick on Windows 7 for 10 years like XP. As such it will stick around as the business OS for a while and get updates as such.
And <3 Aero. So much more aesthetically pleasing than the Windows 8 GUI.

curves > squares. Windows 7 also uses space on the screen more effectively.
Also Minimize / resizing screens. Another thing Windows 7 has an advantage on.

When it comes to resource management, Windows 8 is slightly better. It's also supposed to be more "***** proof" to people who have never used a PC before. It's also substantially better for a touch screen interface.

But for a workstation / desktop OS, Windows 7 is better IMO. I probably wouldn't have any real problem with Windows 8 if it weren't for how ugly it looks to me.

Edited by Vulpesveritas, 04 December 2012 - 06:22 AM.


#19 Sen

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 07:37 AM

My wife's computer boots to windows 8 in under 10 seconds with secure boot. if I turn on the computer before the monitor, it's @ login before the monitor even comes up :D

Honestly, 8 is just a lot more intuitive to me. I always HATED the start menu [you ever miss and have to start ALL OVER AGAIN?] and the windows 8 "new UI" [formerly metro] is a good replacement that just dumps all the startup icons in one convenient place.

Actually, to heck with that. I like windows 8 because Tunein radio has an app that I can launch from my desktop . . which means I don't have to go through their ungodly terribad web interface.

Having MSE baked into Defender is also a nice bonus, even *IF* MS managed to fail to get it certified [really MS, WTF]

As far as business support and windows 7, LTE business support makes sense, but it's NOT necessarily "just" because the O/S is good or that win 8 is bad.

For example, my company JUST moved us into windows 7 from XP. Shiny new Windows 7 x64 laptops. I work in the rail industry, where we have a lot of custom hardware/software equipment with custom interface software etc. As an example of how antiquated some of this equipment is, IT had to custom order a serial port into my laptop, and I was one of the lucky ones.

Being a tech-head, I was fairly enthused about moving up . . .until I had to use the thing. NONE of my software worked. Hell, I had SD card images that worked just fine with XP that refused to work with 7 x64. . I had to take perfectly good stuff apart and make NEW images. For some reason they just weren't compatible. I kept getting calls from co-workers asking for help [mind you, I'm not actually with our IT department. .I'm just easier to get ahold of]. Eventually we got MOST of the wrinkles ironed out with 7 pro's virtual XP addon, but it was a HUGE headache.

This was last April.

Most of the people I work with know their jobs and this specialized hardware very well. . but they know jack about PCs. Even though it'd be moving from x64 to x64, it's just not cost efficient when you get through trying to get everyone re acclimatized to a new o/s. As most of us essentially work from home near our respective job sites, group training classes are an expensive proposition [travel costs, etc]

From a consumer standpoint, however, Win 8 makes a lot more sense. It's a bit more than "slightly" more efficient. File copy and task manager are VASTLY improved, as is the new version of "system optimizer" [formerly defrag] that detects and optimizes SSD automatically with trim. Secure boot, which I'm still not sure how I feel about ethically, makes a WORLD of difference in start times, which win 8 already improved upon. It's light, it's elegant, it's built on windows 7 so everything is compatible. As much as I like it though, It's going to go down in history as the next Vista, and that's a shame. . because it really *IS* a good O/S.

#20 Skyfaller

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 06:52 PM

I thank you all for the input.

For the record I run WinXp64bitPro. I've just been surprised the 7770 is having these issues.

My next upgrade is the OS so.. mmm 7 or 8 dunno yet.





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