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Ranges of weapons and why you need to stop complaining


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#221 Volthorne

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 02:20 PM

View PostUrza Mechwalker, on 11 May 2012 - 02:12 PM, said:

Take note of that.. within 3 weeks of launch every mech wil be fielding all medium lasers and heat sinsk and nothing else.

I'd love to see those MLas boats try and get past my LRMs. And even if they do, I've got my own set of MLas that I can bring around to counter.

#222 Azantia

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 02:34 PM

For those who cant figure it out and keep complaining about the "tabletop" gamers. PGI is using tabletop weapon ranges. So eat that "mw4 generation" hahaha.

in all seriousness, here you go. 1 Hex = 30 meters by tabletop. so here are the ranges for given weapons if they stick to the tabletop formula


Ranges, by tabletop below

which means the PPC should be 540
Large Laser = 450
Medium Laser = 270
Small Laser = 90
Large Pulse Laser = 300
Medium Pulse Laser = 180
Small Pulse Laser = 90
AC 2 = 720
AC 5 = 540
AC 10 = 450
AC 20 = 270
Gauss Rifle = 660
SRM = 270
Ultra AC 5 = 600
LB 10-X AC = 540

Now, notice this

Clan Weaponry

ER PPC = 690
ER Large Laser = 750
ER Medium Laser = 450
ER Small Laser = 180
Large Pulse Laser = 600
Medium Pulse Laser = 360
Small Pulse Laser = 180
Gauss Rifle = 660 (Same)
SRM = 270 (same but streak)
Ultra AC 2 = 810
Ultra AC 5 = 630
Ultra AC 10 = 540
Ultra AC 20 = 360
LB 2-X AC = 900
LB 5-X AC = 720
LB 10-X AC = 540
LB 20-X AC = 360

#223 Sheilei

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 02:35 PM

i haven't read all 13 pages of posts...i gave up at page 3. But my opinion is that everyone should stop thinking about measuring in real life meters for just a moment.
Pardon me but i'm gonna puff out my chest and try to take on the role of a grizzled old sergeant as i try putting forth my plans for a new type of sniper in the Mechwarrior universe. ;)

How can a sniper specialist in MW:O still retain his title as the master of range and presicion?
Being a sniper is more than making certain you got the biggest most accurate hightech gun with the longest possible range.
Most players seem to think that they want to do as much damage as possible in one shot.
Usualy that means they go for a heavy or assault mech stuffed to the brim with LRMs and other long range weapons.

Okay that's one way of doing it. But how about making certain the brawler mechs never get close using another abilities than superior firepower?
Let's take advantage of this rugged terrain the dev's have made for us. Plenty of cover, hills and other terrain that slows mechs down.
Take advantage of it! Make it your backyard!

Speed. Stealth. Cover. Escape route. Working in carefully coordinated pairs if you find that necessary.

Speed: Make certain that you have superior speed in comparison to the brawler type mechs that you mostly meet.
If you must sacrifice some armor in order to do it...so be it.
If you're faster than they are, they can't get in their favored range because you're the one picking the time, place and range.

Stealth: Pick a spot with lot's of cover and preferably a small hill or two. If there is a river or other terrain that slows mechs down between you and your target then that's good.
Pop out of hiding and let off a shot or two at your favored range. Then you immidiatly run into cover and to a new firing spot before the enemy can't turn to face you.
Since the enemy needs LOS to know where you are he won't know where you will pop out next.
Let that Atlas pilot feel helpless for a change. If you think he might run away or he is fast enough to be bothersome you shot him in the legs first thing so he can't.
Let him run after you all he wants because he can't catch you and he would be embarrased to ask for help against a single mech half his weight anyhow.
Use ECM systems, Spoofers(i read about them somewhere here. Aparrently they create false blips on the enemy radars) and stealth armor when/if it becomes available.

Cover: Like i said find terrain that favors your tactics and keep moving. Never stand still for more time than it takes you to fire one or two shots!

Escape route: Make certain that your commander knows about how you work and that he has knowlegde about at least three different coordinates that you will escape to if things get too hot for you.
If he is an able commander he will do his best to lay an ambush for the enemy pursuing you.
Congrats. You just performed your secondary function- Live juicy wigglin' bait for the trap. ;)

Working in pairs: Find someone using light/medium mechs and the same tactics you do in your timezone or even better - a real life friend.
Practice communication, tactics and timing diligently.
Lay plans with your buddy for each specific map before hand and keep them on paper near your PC for easy referance.

Use simple short signals to communicate between each other so that you don't occupy the coms channel with constant chatter.
Know each others mechs well and make certain they compliment each other.
When you have done your shot and run away to relocate your buddy pops out from cover at your signal from a completly different spot and takes his shot.
Aim at the legs to start with so that the prey can't run away or run at you if necessary. Keep it going till those big mechs fall over.



Still worried? Maybe you're worried about the rest of the enemy hunting you down when your big target overcomes his embarrasment and calls for help?
Well that's what you have lancemates in heavier mechs for.

If you can't do your job because half the enemy company is on your tail all the time then you either make for an excellent distraction while your friends butcher the other half of the enemy force who are now outnumbered two to one because you are leading the others on a merry little marathon through the mountains.--
(That was one seriously long sentence)

-Or your friends ain't fighting hard enough and you would have lost anyhow.


Any questions? No? Good. Now get your sorry hides into those mechs and prepare for combat. Move it!

But Sarge the war won't start for months yet.

No?...Well don't you feel lucky private? You get to do the safe work till the war kicks off....By that i mean cleaning the underside of the mechs feet....for the entire company of course.
And when you're done with that come see me because i got more work for you.
Work involving latrines. Both cleaning them and digging new ones since all armies needs a large surplus of latrines.
We can't defend this base without more latrines for our incoming reinforcements. Well...why are you still here? Move it!

Yes sarge.....siiigh.

Edited by Sheilei, 11 May 2012 - 02:40 PM.


#224 Sheilei

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 02:56 PM

Sincere thanks for that list Azantia. I really needed that.

#225 PANZERBUNNY

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 03:00 PM

View PostWaelsleaht, on 11 May 2012 - 02:09 PM, said:

Yes but if you can shoot 2 miles away under any circumstances would said mechwarrior even give them a chance to get any closer? or would he have them pinned at percicly 2 miles? Plus this is modern technology. Think how much better it will be by 3050.


Or...in many cases...how worse it may be.

It's been stated that Battletech technology was formed out of thoughts in the 80's and where we may be in the future.

You can't suddenly hotdrop modern day tech into this game and cry foul.

Battletech is nitty, gritty, barely operational machines that are sometimes 100 years old where whatever the hell is on hand is shoved into the slot of a destroyed weapon.

#226 Five by Five

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 03:01 PM

View Postwwiiogre, on 10 May 2012 - 01:36 PM, said:

Perhaps you might realize PGI may have forseen this and is making the game so that essential difference between IS/Clan weapons and accuracy becomes like it was in the books/fiction scary and otherworldly.


My thoughts exactly!

I remember the mission when the Clans first showed in MW2 Mercs,..... Man, that actually made my hair stand up the first time I played it, literal panic too!

I'm glad to see them leaving room in the weapon ranges for the Clans!

#227 Iron Harlequin

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 03:05 PM

If the ranges get too excessive, every team is probably going to have atleast one if not more people equivalent to that one ****** that sits in one spot with the Anti Air tank in Battlefield 3.

If you've played you know what I'm talking about.

#228 Five by Five

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 03:37 PM

View PostYoseful Mallad, on 10 May 2012 - 06:14 PM, said:

here is an example of the LRM range in this game compared to a real missile used today (the Hellfire missile)

630 meter LRMs... 630 meters is 2066 feet and that = 688 yards. Thats almost 7 football fields.

A modern day Hellfire missile that we use on our choppers, some jets and even fired from ground based vehicles only has a range of 546 yards. Thats 500 meters.

Vehicles in the BT/MW universe use the same LRMs as the mech so yeah, the vehicales and mech in this universe still use weapons with greater ranges than what we use now.


Well, the Javelin missile, which is man portable and will take out modern battle tanks has a list range of 2000 to 2500 meters, and some special forces guys during the second Gulf War made even longer shots (one even without a lock before firing).

Of course, there's really no way to import modern weapon ranges into Battletech with out completely chaning the game balance.

#229 Yeach

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 08:48 PM

I wouldn't mind if PGI REVISED each hex to be 40 m instead of 30 m (as I said earlier in the thread)

#230 LordDeathStrike

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 09:01 PM

stop careing about what ranges weapons are in meters, most of you wouldnt know what a meter was if it jumped up and bit you in the arse anyway.

as long as weapons are balanced against each other, and max range is within where you can actally see what you are shooting at without a zoom module, its all good.

at this point the 7x zoom module gives the advantage of being able to snipe cockpits with gauss rifles and ppcs.

#231 PANZERBUNNY

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 09:48 PM

http://massively.joy...reenshots-plus/

Alright...new footage. You see how far those missiles are going? You can't even really SEE the target mech on the screen.

That is a fair distance my friends.

#232 Zakatak

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 09:59 PM

I know it is fun to bash stupid little MW4, but I think you guys are forgetting something.

LRM ranges we're 630m during the Succession Wars. Why would one of the most popular weapon systems used on the battlefield not receive some kind of upgrade by 3067?

#233 PANZERBUNNY

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 10:15 PM

View PostZakatak, on 11 May 2012 - 09:59 PM, said:

I know it is fun to bash stupid little MW4, but I think you guys are forgetting something.

LRM ranges we're 630m during the Succession Wars. Why would one of the most popular weapon systems used on the battlefield not receive some kind of upgrade by 3067?


Because if it aint broke....why fix it? ;) But missiles did get an upgrade..STREAK.

I would imagine that Resources are so very balanced on a knives edge that Resource and Dev would be better spent...on..you guessed it...MORE MECHS!!! ;)

I was always under the impression that even these many years after the Succession war and all the other brushfire wars like the war of 3039 and the FedCom civil war...they are lucky to have anything manufacturing at all let alone diverting their science resources to boosting missile range...when again...MOAR MECHS!

^^^^ My reasoning.

#234 Vulpesveritas

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 11:02 PM

I want extended range with NARC and TAG up to at least 1200 meters. Which is just short of 3800 feet. Which is just about 3/4 of a mile.
There have been tank cannon shots farther than that IRL tyvm. The Sidewinder short range, heat seeking, missile, developed in 1956, has a range of 18 kilometers (18,000 meters), weighs 188lbs (85kg), and is 5 inches ( 12.5cm) in diameter.

IRL short range missiles have 30 times the range of BT long-range. missiles. That's sad. I want a scout to be able to give a nice big punch via it's backup and a nice old targeting bit. I understand that BT canon of getting rid of the big targeting systems to fit more missiles / inch... but... okay say 20CM for each missile pod? And how large is that missile pod on a Catapult again? Even sacrificing propellant... I mean, that would be taking the majority of that missile just for the warhead. Which wouldn't even focus the blast because of it. Or pierce any armor.

TT vs Sim... I understand for TT for the bits of balance and such... but in a sim... fail logic is fail logic. Not a scout killer or anything. Just cut down on recycle time or accuracy without a beacon and you're reliant on your scouts to tag / narc. No real loss of balance, especially if you're able to get your own lock without at TT ranges, right?

#235 A6PackofToucans

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 03:44 AM

Vulpesveritas, I do agree with you, but we just can't compare real world weapons to the ones in battletech.

Like you, the big worry for me and others is that because of the LRM's max range, every other weapon in game has an even smaller range. And when you look at the video, even the latest one, I'm seeing a possible LRM attack at 500m and under according to what the targeted mech reticle was saying. That's not far at all. Especially when you see all the other mechs in the video literally "In your face."

What I want is that if ALL weapons had larger ranges, that would open up a more tactical game than an in your face slugfest. I want to see scouts with TAG and NARC with the ranges you speak of, so that they are viable very long range assets to the rest of the lance. And to allow targeting in the very hilly and reduced line of sight terrain seen in the videos. And also, the scout would be a very dangerous opponent because of it's ability to allow the missiles in the rest of the lance to come at you at 1000m or more, accurately.

On top of the longer ranges, I was hoping that because of the way targeting systems work, the lag time of arm vs. torso weapons, the convergence factor of weapons, that if you really wanted to be one of those evil and vile long range snipers everyone seems to be afraid of, you would have to invest in heavy 5 ton Targeting computers to give you the magnification you needed and to help you lag shoot your AC5 or Gauss at ranges up to 900m or more. The balance would come from having to invest critical space and tonnage to allow your mech to work at long range. That's what I was looking for, as well as having terrain like we see in the footage, it would allow the brawlers to close with you if they took the time to plan their approach to you. But if you found a good perch to shoot from and the enemy presented himself, then you'd be rewarded for your investment in magnification and tonnage to snipe at him for being foolishly exposed in the open.

We'll have to wait an see how this sim plays when we get it, but I'm not seeing anything more than a brawlfest in these videos. Where's the tactics? The finding and reporting the enemies composition? The command mech working with a scout to coordinate the attack through a C3 network? Calling in artillery to soften the lance up before first contact? Calling in artillery to take out that pesky sniper I spoke of before? All I see is brawling, show me more tactics and thought are possible with this latest incarnation of Mechwarrior, rather than packing all the med lasers and machine guns on a mech and ramming into the enemy at under 90m with trigger held in constantly. I WANT TO BE WRONG ABOUT THIS!!!

I posted the photo below as a joke awile back, but it's looking like it's more the reality...

Posted Image

Edited by A6PackofToucans, 12 May 2012 - 03:57 AM.


#236 Nighthound

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 04:02 AM

You can (theoretically, if the Devs put them in) have those weapons ..... they are called Arrow IV .... they would have a range of 5 to 6 (depending on IS or Clan) Maps (5maps x 17hexes x 30meters = 2550meters). They would require you to have a Unit with TAG equiped or you would need to dumb fire them and hope you hit something. Granted those are considered Artillery weapons and we know those could fire even farther (in RL) but there are (potentially) things like that in the game.

BUT THIS IS BATTLETECH NOT LOGITECH ..... for Pete's sake!

#237 A6PackofToucans

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 04:13 AM

Nighthound, if the Arrow IV is in this sim, I want to see it. if such a weapon is viable with the ranges we're seeing in the videos, I want to see the tactical possibilities of how it can be used in MWO.

I have a favorite config for the TT that was a Cyclops with Arrow IV ( with Homing Arrow IV ammo) BAP, ECM, AMS, TAG, C3, one IS Gauss rifle, and one IS ERPPC. For me, that is a command mech that can also contribute to the battle at long range.

But I want to see what MWO offers since it's a new way of playing, and not everything in this new sim is from the TT

#238 Nighthound

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 05:20 AM

View PostA6PackofToucans, on 12 May 2012 - 04:13 AM, said:

Nighthound, if the Arrow IV is in this sim, I want to see it. if such a weapon is viable with the ranges we're seeing in the videos, I want to see the tactical possibilities of how it can be used in MWO.

I have a favorite config for the TT that was a Cyclops with Arrow IV ( with Homing Arrow IV ammo) BAP, ECM, AMS, TAG, C3, one IS Gauss rifle, and one IS ERPPC. For me, that is a command mech that can also contribute to the battle at long range.

But I want to see what MWO offers since it's a new way of playing, and not everything in this new sim is from the TT


Don't aks me I'm not in charge, I just said it is theoretically possible if the Devs put it in .... go to the suggestion forum and suggest it.
I just wanted to say that 630 meters is neither the end of the line nor are there weapons that can't have miles of distance.

#239 MaddMaxx

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 06:12 AM

View PostAegis Kleais™, on 11 May 2012 - 01:20 PM, said:

With the graphic that I did up...

Posted Image

Only the ER PPC has a range longer than the LRM. The lasers were confirmed to continue past their shown distances, but their damage was to trail off (at what rate, we don't yet know)


The color selection is off. ;)

#240 Aegis Kleais

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 06:41 AM

View PostMaddMaxx, on 12 May 2012 - 06:12 AM, said:


The color selection is off. ;)

Sorry. To me, Ballistics were yellow, energy was red and missiles were green. Just a quick way to segregate weapon types.





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