250 replies to this topic

[Arbhall Sommers]

in the videos ive seen so far. Next to the ammo is an icon that looks like a heatsink, and to the right of that. An icon of a mech, which i surmise is how you would modify modify how much and where you can add or remove armor.
In the wiki they mention Hardened along with FF, and standard armor. In the total war books hardened armor took like 16 criticals and took less damage from kinetic weapon effects like missiles and projectiles. It offered no extra protection against energy weapons.

[carl kerensky]

Referring back to the OP. The last thing I want to see is accelerated gameplay here. Arguing semantics on damage and how fast you can drop a light will only be revealed when we get the beta but if MWO turns into what the OP is talking about?. No thanks. Too much FPS for my taste. I want somewhat drawn out battles. Youve got big war machines here that can and should withstand punishment..even the lights. Battles like these are exciting IMO. They convey battle tension and require good piloting skills to win the day. Hell talk about a riot to dismember an opponents weapons systems before you do detroy him totally. Fun factor a ten..yup. If one shot kills are gonna happen then let them be rare.
Ck

[Iron Harlequin]

Remember in MW4 the Reflective, Standard, Ferrofibrous, and Reactive armors?
I never understood the point of Reflective and Reactive if there's Ferrofibrous


Also remember MW3 and how you actually had a stockpile of armor you had to manage? That'd be somewhat cool

Edited by Iron Harlequin, 12 May 2012 - 08:00 PM.

[Arbhall Sommers]

carl kerensky, on 12 May 2012 - 07:45 PM, said:

Referring back to the OP. The last thing I want to see is accelerated gameplay here. Arguing semantics on damage and how fast you can drop a light will only be revealed when we get the beta but if MWO turns into what the OP is talking about?. No thanks. Too much FPS for my taste. I want somewhat drawn out battles. Youve got big war machines here that can and should withstand punishment..even the lights. Battles like these are exciting IMO. They convey battle tension and require good piloting skills to win the day. Hell talk about a riot to dismember an opponents weapons systems before you do detroy him totally. Fun factor a ten..yup. If one shot kills are gonna happen then let them be rare.
Ck

I would like to see the same thing, but the fact of the matter is battlemechs were designed to be the kings of the battlefield. Against everything but other mechs, they dominate. Lights were never designed to take on battlemechs, they were designed to take out conventional military forces like mechanized infantry and fixed emplacements. Things that would be vulnerable to a fast mover that can simply lean over their cover and waste them.
mediums were made for pressing against heavy ground forces like tanks and hardened emplacements like fortresses.
heavies and assaults were intended for use against other mechs. They all excell at their intended roles, but they werent ment to be pitted against each other until late in their development.
In this game as in the table top, lights get to take the first and biggest bite of the crap sandwich when matched against other mech classes.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Hmm..AC20 does 20 points of damage, CT on a Light Mech tends to have far less then 20 points of armor, so any Light pilot dumb enough to run into the forward firing arc of an AC20 bearing Mech and get THAT close...I am sure that even in the 30th Century they still have Darwin Awards, might even be a special prize for collecting enough of them, quiaff.

Seriously Melissia, you are one of the people who complain that a mortar in Tribes: Ascend can 1 shot any Light aren't you...

I've been 1 shotted in a Dire Wolf, Fire Moth, Atlas, Jenner and everything in between either IS or Clan based in TT and the various MW video games over the years and you know what, I never ONCE stopped and said, 'that's unfair!'. I usually complemented my opponent..or my teammate on occassion *looks at any of the SRM *, on the damned good shot. You, Melissia, you don't do that though, you complain that it's not fair that you lost due to someone else having superior skills and weaponary. That's just sad, ya know?

[Iron Harlequin]

Kristov Kerensky, on 12 May 2012 - 08:09 PM, said:

Hmm..AC20 does 20 points of damage, CT on a Light Mech tends to have far less then 20 points of armor, so any Light pilot dumb enough to run into the forward firing arc of an AC20 bearing Mech and get THAT close...I am sure that even in the 30th Century they still have Darwin Awards, might even be a special prize for collecting enough of them, quiaff.

Seriously Melissia, you are one of the people who complain that a mortar in Tribes: Ascend can 1 shot any Light aren't you...

I've been 1 shotted in a Dire Wolf, Fire Moth, Atlas, Jenner and everything in between either IS or Clan based in TT and the various MW video games over the years and you know what, I never ONCE stopped and said, 'that's unfair!'. I usually complemented my opponent..or my teammate on occassion *looks at any of the SRM *, on the damned good shot. You, Melissia, you don't do that though, you complain that it's not fair that you lost due to someone else having superior skills and weaponary. That's just sad, ya know?

I know its not a prime example of a mechwarrior/battletech game. but I've been 1 shot before in MW4 in a damn atlas. then again..... that Fafnir did nail me in the face with 2 Heavy Gauss. but still I was minding my own business, saw him, engaged, and them BAM! I died.

[Arbhall Sommers]

Iron Harlequin, on 12 May 2012 - 07:59 PM, said:

Remember in MW4 the Reflective, Standard, Ferrofibrous, and Reactive armors?
I never understood the point of Reflective and Reactive if there's Ferrofibrous


Also remember MW3 and how you actually had a stockpile of armor you had to manage? That'd be somewhat cool

Reflective armor was created when a batch of FF was mixed wrong and the materials had better conductive profiles, letting the armor take half damage from enegery weapons.
Reactive armor took half damage from ballisitic weapons.
Both took more crit slots than FF, and had an additional drawback. I think reflective took a bit more damage from ballistic weapons, and the reactive armor had a chance of dropping the sections load of armor on a failed roll. Something like that.
I didnt care much for the MW games after microsoft and FASA stopped working together, and that abomination they made for the xbox is unmentionable.

[Melissia]

Kristov Kerensky, on 12 May 2012 - 08:09 PM, said:

Seriously Melissia, you are one of the people who complain that a mortar in Tribes: Ascend

I didn't. Stop making **** up.

All I said was that it takes more skill to hit someone with a mortar in Tribes: Ascend than it does to it someone with a PPC or AC20 in MWO given what we have seen thus far.

Aside from you being nothing more than a blatant troll with nothing of value to add to this discussion, how you turned "it takes skill to hit someone with a mortar in Tribes:Ascend" in to "mortars are overpowered!" is beyond me. Stupidity, perhaps.

Mike Silva, on 12 May 2012 - 06:52 PM, said:

You want me to respond to your unfounded opinion

What unfounded opinion?

What I stated was fact.

And if you somehow dispute the fact that MWO is not a turn-based tactical tabletop game based off of hexes and dice rolling and is instead a real-time first person shooter where aiming is dependent on skill and not luck, then I would say you have no clue what you're talking about. And if you dispute the fact that players can hit a fairly slow, large moving target quite easily, I can provide plenty of videos of people hitting smaller targets than battlemechs, moving faster and more nimbly than a battlemech, with a weapon whose projectile travels slower than anything that a battlemech shoots-- and doing so quite regularly.

Edited by Melissia, 12 May 2012 - 08:49 PM.

[SuomiWarder]

As much as I like Lights, I have no problem with an Awesome blasting off a leg if all three PPCs land on that leg. That is because I expect that Awesome to overheat at that point and be open to someone else attacking it.

I don't want twin gauss strikes to toast my medium mech arm any more than I want a medium mech to shrug off my twin gauss shot I just carefully placed in the same body location. So I guess we can't have our cake and eat it too.

As a thumbnail answer to the original question, if we used TT rule damages as the baseline, the I would probably increase armor values for the same armor tonnage around 40% higher than pure TT levels. This is because I expect live players to land more hits (especially with locked on LRMs) than you see in TT dice based attacks. The TT damage to armor model expects a certain % of misses and random body spread of the damage. My MW4 Mercs league play tells me that many players will be able to land hits within 300 meters most of the time and that they will be able to keep direct fired weapons either in the torso or in the leg area at a minimum (and shoot the "ears" off of Cats, the humps on Hunchies, etc. in all liklihood. I expect to do so myself).

[Mike Silva]

Melissia, on 12 May 2012 - 08:43 PM, said:

fact

That word, I don't think it means what you think it means. Go find a dictionary.

[Iron Harlequin]

Arbhall Sommers, on 12 May 2012 - 08:29 PM, said:

Reflective armor was created when a batch of FF was mixed wrong and the materials had better conductive profiles, letting the armor take half damage from enegery weapons.
Reactive armor took half damage from ballisitic weapons.
Both took more crit slots than FF, and had an additional drawback. I think reflective took a bit more damage from ballistic weapons, and the reactive armor had a chance of dropping the sections load of armor on a failed roll. Something like that.
I didnt care much for the MW games after microsoft and FASA stopped working together, and that abomination they made for the xbox is unmentionable.

I did not know that, and now I do


And "the game whos name may never be spoken allowed" I agree.

[Melissia]

Mike Silva, on 12 May 2012 - 08:44 PM, said:

That word, I don't think it means what you think it means. Go find a dictionary.

Quote

fact/fakt/Noun: A thing that is indisputably the case.

Such as the indisputable thing that is "this game is not a turn-based tactical strategy game where aim is based off of dice rolling", and the indisputable thing that "this game is a real-time first person shooter where aim is based off of skill".

Or are you disputing this, and proving that you have no clue what the hell you're talking about?

[Mike Silva]

Melissia, on 12 May 2012 - 08:52 PM, said:

Such as the indisputable thing that is "this game is not a turn-based tactical strategy game where aim is based off of dice rolling", and the indisputable thing that "this game is a real-time first person shooter where aim is based off of skill".

Or are you disputing this, and proving that you have no clue what the hell you're talking about?

So that's your one and only point? Yes, I completely agree. This game is not turn based, it's a video game.

Ten pages and that's it?

[Melissia]

I know reading is intellectually challenging for you, but you should really try harder at it.

Also?

These players, for example, are smaller, firing slower moving projectiles, and traveling faster and more erratically than light 'mechs are capable of, but in this game one sees direct hits fairly regularly. I'm also able to pull off shots like this, and I'm sure as hell not omg teh gratetst palyar eavr in Tribes: Ascend. So I ask you, when the average player is able to do something like this after getting used to the game, why would you expect 'mech players, who are traveling slower, less erratically, and firing faster-moving projectiles at bigger targets, would be unable to land hits with the same regularity if not more so?

Assuming that other players can't aim worth a damn does not lead to good balance.

Edited by Melissia, 12 May 2012 - 09:00 PM.

[Mike Silva]

That's cute, now you're no longer hiding your insults, you're just throwing them out there plain as day.

Whatever that video is, it's not Battletech, and I have no idea how you're trying to tie it into your fact. Connect the dots, please.

[Melissia]

Mike Silva, on 12 May 2012 - 09:03 PM, said:

Whatever that video is, it's not Battletech

Neither is Mechwarrior Online.

Mike Silva, on 12 May 2012 - 09:03 PM, said:

Connect the dots, please.

I'm not sure if you're trolling, or just stupid.

My point, the same one I've made for pages now, is that this game is an FPS game. An FPS game with large, relatively slow moving targets, and fast moving projectiles.

And you're assuming that people in this kind of game won't be able to hit a moving target. Which is sheer ignorance. FPS gamers are actually able to aim, even if you aren't.

[Iron Harlequin]

And get back on topic?

[Melissia]

But aren't we on topic though? The matter of damage and armor needs to take in to consideration the fact that the average player is a far more competent marksman than mechwarrior pilots in the battletech tabletop game are.

Edited by Melissia, 12 May 2012 - 09:09 PM.

[Arbhall Sommers]

I think its kinda awesome they have included Blue shield. Keeps players from losing out to the PPC headshot.
I have no idea how many times I have lost excellent pilots to a PPC headshot. The Gauss one is just as nasty but it feels natural and you want to thank the person who pulled it off.
But anyway, my query about that would be: Would you have to load it onto specific locations and pay 2 tons each like in the TT?
And if it does work like that, would a trio on the torsos cover the front and rear equally? or would you have to equip 6 to fully cover the torso?

[Iron Harlequin]

Melissia, on 12 May 2012 - 09:08 PM, said:

But aren't we on topic though? The matter of damage and armor needs to take in to consideration the fact that the average player is a far more competent marksman than mechwarrior pilots in the battletech tabletop game are.

Couldn't you have just said that to begin with? Instead of deliberately bickering back and forth. And I'm neither condoning nor saying you two were wrong to defend yourselves, but comeon.... there's limits people.