49 replies to this topic

[Aegis Kleais]

Before I start here, let me preface this all by saying that the damage readout we've seen would STILL be the default display, I'm merely suggesting an alternate so that it could be toggled to and then-forward be the player's default.

Thing is, for me, it's just too amazingly difficult to determine damage levels.

First, the color's between healthy and destroyed are not significantly different in hue that it becomes hard to tell the damage level at a quick glance. Yellow to Orange to Red is only 60 degrees of hue shift. On top of it the "pulsating" effect when a Mech takes damage makes it even more difficult to get a quick read (though I understand it acts as a mechanic to indicate to the player where they damaged the Mech)

For clarification, is it possible at all to do damage to internals in a section until you've destroyed all the armor?

If not, I would personally just need to see armor first. When that is destroyed, that section could get replaced by a "thinner" frame which indicates the internal structure.

With some additional information on the damage model I might be able to provide a finite solution, but being able to quickly discern information about target damage is critical and I'm just not too fond of the current implementation.

** UPDATE: I added this photo below **

Edited by Aegis Kleais™, 12 May 2012 - 07:05 AM.

[Fresh Meat]

Totally agree with the limited color shift being a problem.

[Aegis Kleais]

Fresh_Meat, on 11 May 2012 - 06:09 PM, said:

Totally agree with the limited color shift being a problem.

Aesthetically, I understand they don't want to introduce greens into the UI, and I can respect that. But if they're going to stick to those guns, I hope we can get something else that isn't just an HTAL bargraph. Visualization is nice, and easy to consume quickly, we're just looking for it to be in a different package

[Hawkeye 72]

I see your concern and have been wondering the same thing the last few months.

I can't remember if the devs hinted that the HUD will be customizable or not. If so, there could be an option provided to accent different levels of damage.

[William Petersen]

I'd like to see them give an option for the bar-graph display from all the previous titles. That was the best one for me. /nods

[Mad Pig]

I have to agree that the damage display interface I've seen in the vids is rather.. .. honestly will probably just ignore those blinkies until my mech falls over belching smoke, or the enemy is completely destroyed. The House pays the repair bills right? (please... don't ruin my happy fantasy...)

Seriously though, what about upgrades based on the pilot's experience within the chassis? I know I'm smoking some weak Kuritan grass but maybe what we're seeing is some sort of default HUD, and as you gain more experience in the chassis you are rewarded with more tactical and visual detail. Probably not, but I'd be fine with something along those lines.

Until we meet on the field, golden slop for all!

[eZZip]

Mad Pig, on 11 May 2012 - 07:38 PM, said:

Seriously though, what about upgrades based on the pilot's experience within the chassis? I know I'm smoking some weak Kuritan grass but maybe what we're seeing is some sort of default HUD, and as you gain more experience in the chassis you are rewarded with more tactical and visual detail. Probably not, but I'd be fine with something along those lines.

Until we meet on the field, golden slop for all!

If the amount of damage done was intentionally difficult to read (because a module would make it more readable, assuming one exists), then don't let players read it at all (at least without said module).

[Zakatak]

I wouldn't mind the "bar graph" style readouts for damage indicators. During the Heavy Mech Breakdown, Russ said something to the effect of "we are giving this guy a real beating, let's fire another volley", and I looked at the indicators. Nothing had changed really.

[Morashtak]

While a bar graph would be great I couldn't help but wonder if the current way of displaying damage doesn't help contribute to the Fog of War mentality that PGI is trying to introduce. Scouts need to mark targets and all that. De

There could be a way to add enhancements with modules and a customizable UI later™. Exacting damage readouts could be one of them. Something I'd want but not need at launch but would see as a reward for continued playing.

I too would like it as a bar graph as well but in the shape of the locations with the damaged location turning into the internal structure style graphic once it reaches 0% armor.

EDIT: Found it;

InnerSphereNews, on 14 March 2012 - 09:05 AM, said:

<snip>
Will we have the ability to modify the HUD colours? If so, how will it affect the damage indicator, which slowly turns to red then turns black. What happens if we want a red HUD? –autogyro

[MATT C] There are plans around modifying the HUD post launch though for now there are other systems that need to be made nominal ;-).

So again, "Yes, but no details yet."

Edited by Morashtak, 12 May 2012 - 04:43 AM.

[Aegis Kleais]

OK, how about something like this?



Here's what I did:

• The top YELLOW bars indicate ARMOR whereas the red bars below are that section's INTERNALS
  
• There is grouping (H, ARMS+TORSO, LEGS, REAR) with space between them to help easily differentiate
  
• As armor depletes, a dark BG is behind it to help visualize how much armor has been lost
  
• The same for internals, however the lighter red is replaced with a darker red.
  
• Uses a LEFT TO RIGHT mentality for easy association to the viewer
  
• Colors do not shift, but instead indicate Armor vs. Internals.
  
• If the user chooses, the bars can flash a brighter version of their color when that area is taking damage.
  
• The Mech's max armor (when fully repaired) is considered the 100% point, so all bars are even across top to quickly show a fully healthy Mech.

Edited by Aegis Kleais™, 12 May 2012 - 06:40 AM.

[Prosperity Park]

Morashtak, on 12 May 2012 - 04:26 AM, said:

While a bar graph would be great I couldn't help but wonder if the current way of displaying damage doesn't help contribute to the Fog of War mentality that PGI is trying to introduce.

I agree here, the Fog of War-effects would best be implemented using targeting data overlaid on an image of a Mech rather than a bar graph. The current display can blink where your shots land and comfortably show you where the enemy is receiving damage, and when you finally attain a strong-enough target lock it will then show you how much actual health they have remaining by using the red color/thinning bodyparts. With a bargraph you couldn't determine the length of the bars until your sights have been kept on target for long enough, so during snap-engagements you'd just have a bunch of blinking full-length bars that don't help you very much.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 12 May 2012 - 07:04 AM.

[Morashtak]

Prosperity Park, on 12 May 2012 - 06:56 AM, said:

With a bargraph you couldn't determine the length of the bars until your sights have been kept on target for long enough, so during snap-engagements you'd just have a bunch of blinking full-length bars that don't help you very much.

Could work. Would make scouts have another use - data mining (just kind of kidding, of course).

The current system lends itself to the double-blind board game play style - a neutral referee rolls the hit locations and tells the attacker where generally the damage is done. The defender marks their spec sheet but is under no obligation to show it to his opponent. Or to even have to remind the other player how much damage has accumulated or left to go. The referee would simply announce the degree of damage the location is showing.

I'm not advocating realism ("Hey! Computers don't work that way!") but simply asking if we don't want a little fogginess in the game, not only to heighten the tension but to keep the data mining out of it as much as possible. So, Aegis, I'm agreeing to a point in that the computer could tell us as a percentage how much damage a location has sustained but not in exacting detail.

[Redshift2k5]

I like the bar graph representation. For enemy mechs where you have less information, you can use the silhouette, but for my own mech I would prefer a more precise graph

[autogyro]

I'm also concerned regarding the HUD. I'm all for the bar graph, even if it is some sort of module upgrade or whatever the case is, it would be nice to have it be an option in game.

[Belisarius1]

Please, just give us HTAL bars.

[Long Draw]

Why can't we display general enemy mech damage on our HUD as an overlay on actual mechs and use some of the freed up screen real estate to show a more detailed mech graphic/dropping armor bars damage display below our mech windows?

[Belisarius1]

Long Draw, on 12 May 2012 - 07:15 PM, said:

Why can't we display general enemy mech damage on our HUD as an overlay on actual mechs and use some of the freed up screen real estate to show a more detailed mech graphic/dropping armor bars damage display below our mech windows?

Because then you'd lose info on parts of the 'mech you couldn't see. It's really important to know that the torso they're refusing to show you is actually crit.

[Long Draw]

Belisarius†, on 12 May 2012 - 10:17 PM, said:

Because then you'd lose info on parts of the 'mech you couldn't see. It's really important to know that the torso they're refusing to show you is actually crit.

Well, unless it is in one of your team's line of sight at some point from them moving into that position to fire their weapons there, would that really matter? If someone keeps hiding their rear torso from me, I've going to get curious and launch a salvo of LRM20's right behind them when they're stopped.

[Owl Cutter]

I would like more ARD-style interface elements since it fits the "rule of cool," immersive realism, practicality, and the general futuristic theme. There are not enough win-win-win-win options like that.

Back on topic, I would be satisfied with any incarnation of the classic HTAL display that is readable, but improvement is welcome. To be more specific about what I think would be optimal...

Aegis Kleais™, on 12 May 2012 - 06:38 AM, said:

OK, how about something like this?

http&#58;//i45.tinypic.com/rlj38h.jpg

Here's what I did:

• The top YELLOW bars indicate ARMOR whereas the red bars below are that section's INTERNALS
  
• There is grouping (H, ARMS+TORSO, LEGS, REAR) with space between them to help easily differentiate
  
• As armor depletes, a dark BG is behind it to help visualize how much armor has been lost
  
• The same for internals, however the lighter red is replaced with a darker red.
  
• Uses a LEFT TO RIGHT mentality for easy association to the viewer
  
• Colors do not shift, but instead indicate Armor vs. Internals.
  
• If the user chooses, the bars can flash a brighter version of their color when that area is taking damage.
  
• The Mech's max armor (when fully repaired) is considered the 100% point, so all bars are even across top to quickly show a fully healthy Mech.

I like most of it, but would prefer the scale to be constant so that the "shadow" bars to show what was originally there (BTW, better IMO than the harsh red/green contrast of older HTAL displays!) also show value relative to other locations and other 'mechs. IOW, so you could see by the relative lengths how much damage the various locations are capable of absorbing relative to each other, both for a fresh 'mech and your current state, and when you pilot a 'mech of much different size you can also get a rough visual sense for how the armor values compare to what you were piloting before. For that matter, maybe even add a scale to show the size of, say, 10 points for comparison.

I would also reverse the direction of the internal structure bars so they both grow outward, since that would probably work better with variable length and, IMO at least, be more aesthetically appealing. I am not a fan of the flashing either, but instead of getting rid of it I would add a flashing dot or similar indicator somewhere on the HTAL display if not right next to each bar. I don't care much either way for hue shift, but colour-coding might be more newb-friendly so might be appropriate for an alternate paper doll-style damage disply, while for the HTAL I have an aesthetic preference for not putting a whole bunch of colours right next to each other.

Edited by Owl Cutter, 13 May 2012 - 12:20 AM.

[Shredhead]

I don't really like bar graphs (just a personal reluctance), but I too see the urgent need for better color coding of damage levels. In the Heavy Mech video I thought "wow, they didn't really hurt that Jenner with the first volley" as after the initial frantic blinking colors didn't change that much (slightly darker, not visible on a quick glance).