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#1 Thatguyoverthere

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 11:47 AM

Niko Snow said:

Please attempt to respond to the following questions in your responses:
The weapon or 'Mech affected under ECM.
The behaviour that weapon or 'Mech affected under ECM..
A suggested change (increase/decrease) to the ECM stats to improve balance.


I've had the chance to play several games immediately after the patch today, and I want to say this: ECM is great! It really does redefine gameplay.
The ability to flank the enemy in a Raven accompanied by several heavier mechs (some with LRMs) and be invisible to radar / LRM fire is amazing in itself. It brings in a new level of strategy to countering enemy ECM / making the most out of your own.

Just throwing this out there!

Also: I noticed that while in Thermal Vision Mode, there seems to be rings expanding out from my mech's location across the ground (like ripples on the terrain), is this unique to ECM equipped mechs? It's pretty interesting.

Edited by Thatguyoverthere, 04 December 2012 - 01:33 PM.
Intro Added for Merged Threads


#2 Buzzkillin

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 11:51 AM

I do like it a lot already and helps reinforce the role warfare PGI wants to bring, now I need to rethink my strategy and mech loadout if every battle is going to have ecm included.

#3 Ryvucz

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 12:09 PM

I love the ECM, nice kick to the nuts of those abusive streakers.

Running around in my Commando with ECM, and I managed to kill a Jenner, slap around a streak Catapult and streak Commando, and live with all of my parts.

'(^.^)'

#4 Thatguyoverthere

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 12:11 PM

View PostBuzzkillin, on 04 December 2012 - 11:51 AM, said:

I do like it a lot already and helps reinforce the role warfare PGI wants to bring, now I need to rethink my strategy and mech loadout if every battle is going to have ecm included.



I agree completely. One thing that someone brought up ingame though was that it may lead to everyone surrounding an Atlas and just pushing forward. What are people's thoughts on this? I personally feel that the selection of mechs that DO have ECM should be kept as-is: (Throwing ECM around would take away the role-specific warfare of it). In respect to a single mob of ECM-Covered mechs pushing forward, it'd be a possible target for long range gauss and laser fire. Taking out the ECM mech would be a big priority as well. I think that with the ability to cut out LRM's in some situations, we should see some interesting new tactics come into play.

Edited by Thatguyoverthere, 04 December 2012 - 12:12 PM.


#5 Glucose

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 12:17 PM

If it makes PUGS huddle around an Atlas, PUGs are going to become a bit better...

#6 Verminaard

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 12:26 PM

I love ECM! no more seeing enemies wherever they are, tactics are valid again. You can actually catch people by surprise for once!

This is a great step forwards, and in itself a nerf to streaks. Helps balance greatly IMO.

Edited by Verminaard, 04 December 2012 - 12:26 PM.


#7 Buzzkillin

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 12:32 PM

View PostThatguyoverthere, on 04 December 2012 - 12:11 PM, said:



I agree completely. One thing that someone brought up ingame though was that it may lead to everyone surrounding an Atlas and just pushing forward. What are people's thoughts on this? I personally feel that the selection of mechs that DO have ECM should be kept as-is: (Throwing ECM around would take away the role-specific warfare of it). In respect to a single mob of ECM-Covered mechs pushing forward, it'd be a possible target for long range gauss and laser fire. Taking out the ECM mech would be a big priority as well. I think that with the ability to cut out LRM's in some situations, we should see some interesting new tactics come into play.



With the announcement of the long tom, surrounding yourself around an Atlas wouldn't be a good idea either. Hopefully as things are added and balance changes are for the better, the game will improve/

#8 Thatguyoverthere

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 12:36 PM

View PostBuzzkillin, on 04 December 2012 - 12:32 PM, said:

...With the announcement of the long tom...


They're adding in the Long Tom?! That's awesome! So far, it seems that the more unique weapons add a little bit on entropy to the game, changing up tactics and providing more and more possible solutions to winning a game.

#9 EmperorMyrf

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 12:40 PM

I only got to play a few games today, but man I really love what ECM has done to the game. I want to try to run an LRM boat next just to ensure that it isn't completely crippled but everything else has been great so far.

#10 Shakespeare

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 12:41 PM

Ok, let's get this out of the way:

People are going to complain, lots, about ECM, because it does things, changes things. I just got out of a lengthy "RUINED FOREVER" thread about useless LRMS and dead streak cats.

They will adapt. the game will improve.
complexity in game mechanics is good. So please, hold off on making 'quickfix' style changes to ECM right away. Let us figure out the way to play around it now. It takes more than a few days for players to adjust to new game mechanics, and between then and now comes a lot of whining - growing pains, if you will. Those of us who don't constantly yell about everything can get crowded out of balance discussions like that.

I think ECM is great. I still see LRM kills, I still see streak kills. ECM is useful, powerful, but not omnipresent or unbeatable. The limitation on chassis is exactly the right idea. I wouldn't expand it at all, excepting new chassis.
I love it. We can all play again, fewer "blot out the sun" LRM standoffs, or "ssrms will defeat everything". Mechs jamming other mechs, mechs tagging to take out enemy ECM. This is all really cool stuff, and I think the game will evolve in interesting directions with this.

Only thing that I would like to see beyond current implementation (which seems ok. I can't emphasize enough how cool a change this is), is to make ECM 'slotted', like AMS, with similar visual feedback (antenna, horizontal sweep disk, etc). That would be snazzy.

Great work guys, this is really nifty stuff. Ease off the trigger finger for a bit and try and tune out the complaining for a little while. They'll get over it, and a lot of players are already seeing this as a change for the better. We won't really know whether it's (re)balanced or unbalanced until we play the hell out of it for a few weeks at least.

#11 ArmageddonKnight

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 12:43 PM

ECM's on light mechs has made them even more of a PITA to kill than they were previosly. Add on to the fact that light mechs also do to much dmg to heavier mechs imo ..makes them extremly OP. i've played light mechs ..and they are a joke ..you can pritty much beat any other heaveier mech ..evem more so now if you put on a ECM.

SSRM's used to be a good idea ..even one of them on an otherwise laser or projectile mech helped deal with the pesky light mechs that would constantly be to fast for you to hit. Now though you cant lock onto them ether.

Light mechs need their hardpoints limited to light weopns only ..no more medium pulse laser ..or large laser. .or ppc's etc. Then make these light weapons do even less dmg than they currently do. This will make it so lights can only really dmg vs other lights and make them be used for their intended prupose .. Scouting.

Other than that however. ECM seems like a good anti ML boat at close range ..which is good.
I just know that currently light mechs should ether a) not be able to use ECM (which is silly imo as they are for scouting and should be able ot use EW) or b ) be made so they do very very little dmg vs heavier mechs via weapo limitations ..which is much more realistic.

Edited by ArmageddonKnight, 04 December 2012 - 12:44 PM.


#12 Xendojo

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 12:43 PM

Ive seen ECM equipped mechs in thermal vision and yes the ripple effect is just on those mechs.

#13 Dr Killinger

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 12:44 PM

I LOVE IT, PGI. DAMN IT I LOVE IT.

Ahem. I bumped into a Streak cat, and flicked the switch on my ecm, and he just gave me this dumb look as his missile doors flapped. Cored him. Then I bumped into another one with a Raven friend, and that took the smile off my face. This game is suddenly even more interesting.

Balanced and interesting is my preliminary evaluation.

#14 Xendojo

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 12:46 PM

View PostArmageddonKnight, on 04 December 2012 - 12:43 PM, said:

ECM's on light mechs has made them even more of a PITA to kill than they were previosly. Add on to the fact that light mechs also do to much dmg to heavier mechs imo ..makes them extremly OP. i've played light mechs ..and they are a joke ..you can pritty much beat any other heaveier mech ..evem more so now if you put on a ECM.

SSRM's used to be a good idea ..even one of them on an otherwise laser or projectile mech helped deal with the pesky light mechs that would constantly be to fast for you to hit. Now though you cant lock onto them ether.

Light mechs need their hardpoints limited to light weopns only ..no more medium pulse laser ..or large laser. .or ppc's etc. Then make these light weapons do even less dmg than they currently do. This will make it so lights can only really dmg vs other lights and make them be used for their intended prupose .. Scouting.

Other than that however. ECM seems like a good anti ML boat at close range ..which is good.
I just know that currently light mechs should ether a) not be able to use ECM (which is silly imo as they are for scouting and should be able ot use EW) or b ) be made so they do very very little dmg vs heavier mechs via weapo limitations ..which is much more realistic.



This is an ECM thread not a light mech thread. It's known that lights are a bit OP at the moment. Collisions will fix much of the problem.

#15 megoblocks

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 12:46 PM

Played several games with it so far as a cicada, loads of fun, and definitely changes things around.

#16 ReaverLord

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 12:48 PM

ECM, is pretty powerful atm. Seems a bit overpowered because small groups can surprise large groups from behind. New strategies will need to be created to counter ECM, having another ECM to counter, doesn't really sufice.

#17 Ryvucz

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 12:49 PM

One issue -

Streakers using ECM.

How about making sure those streakers can't use ECM or vice versa. Just makes a more annoying streak carrier. (3L)

#18 Temptis

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 01:00 PM

several issues with ECM:
1. with my RVN 3L standing infront of another RVN 3L both with ECM neither of us was able to get a lock for SSRM2 at all.
not even with me putting TAG on him
2, my xml files do not show a new actionmap for ECM toggling, leading to me beeing unable to toggle ECM at all.
i would have to delete my defaultprofile.xml and thus delete all my binding customisations in order to be able to toggle ECM
what is the XML code i have to add to enable ECM toggling?

other than that ECM brings MWO gameplay to a whole new level.

#19 Xeren KelDar

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 01:06 PM

As it stands right now ECM is over tweaked. I think the core concept is pretty good, but just overtuned right now. One thing that could help counter it for LRMs at least is NARC and maybe tune NARC duration to permanent, but susceptable to damage. For instance it would never go off cooldown, but could get destroyed by the LRMs you just landed on the mech.

With just assault mode there seems to be even more of a shift in dynamic to cap the base, only now its both teams trying to be ninjas and do it while under an ECM bubble. This issue may get resolved in the future with CW, but right now seems to really detract from the game as it is negating the big stompy mech battles.

Finally, these may be bugged issues or not, but it seems ECM is blocking targetting for me even while I maintain LoS to target. If bugged or intended I think it needs to be looked into. This has happened to me at less than 90m (ECM bubble), 200m, and out to 600-800 all while I could plainy see the target. Blocking the lockable weapons (SSRM) seems to be the intent and I'm ok with that, but totally negating the red box which really does nothing to direct fire weapons seems excessive. One you lose LoS, I'd be ok with the ninja raven dropping off targetting/radar/etc.

To summarize:

Core Concept pretty good and promises lots of potential

Execution is overtweaked and leads to gameplay issues making it a negative addition to the current system in its current state (both game's state and ECM's)

#20 Dr Killinger

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 01:08 PM

View PostGlucose, on 04 December 2012 - 12:17 PM, said:

If it makes PUGS huddle around an Atlas, PUGs are going to become a bit better...

As an Atlas DC pilot who dropped with only one team mate this evening, I can confirm that I have never had PUG mechs so tightly pressed against my mech in my entire time in MWO!





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