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Bap Vs Ecm Discussion

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#41 Tikkamasala


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Posted 06 December 2012 - 04:31 AM

View PostMordin Ashe, on 06 December 2012 - 04:18 AM, said:

That is a great proof ECM is utterly broken, because PGI made it so powerfull one simply has to buy one.

No, it's not. It is new however so expect to see quite a lot of ecm equiped mechs for the next few days. It'll calm down as soon as people realize how to efficiently deal with it.

#42 Kyrs


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Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:03 AM

View PostVerminaard, on 05 December 2012 - 11:48 AM, said:

I don't entirely agree with nerfing ECM from 75% to 25% as per Tice Daurus' post, but i do agree that ECM should be probably have its detectable range in the WIDE OPEN increased a little at least. Seeing enemies at 300m visually in the open and not being able to target is extremely annoying, even more so when you have BAP equipped.

This totally killed my spotting career path (c-bill), has I generally take point on fast heavy mech. I find it very fun how I can see target in heat mode yet it cannot be track. I understand that ECM could block my normally automatic targeting sensor, but I should be able in heat mode to mark target and my computer should track it until it disappear for my line of sigh. This manual tracks doesn't work on SSRM since they are primive fire and forget missile.

Having to break line if sign does require more skill and thinking so this nerf indirectly the ECM. (mainly a nerf to unskilled ppl that are unable to break line of sight). The track target know appears in radar of ally BUT there won't be target info. (this creates a first layer of information warfare that is less effective that normal sensors). It also end this stupid argument of voice of ip being your only counter in the information warfare. (being immune the the 180m communication blanket, I find that very funny, since it is a simulator this means I'm able to scream the info to teammate 1000 meter away. LOL )

This way :
- Heat plume will actually be useful to break manual targeting
- one can hide in a heat plume
- You can potential use a enemy mech in blanket 180m to switch the lock on him
- Building and Hill have a use
- This nerf more the slow atlas then the fast light that goes 149
- It created a risk vs reward of shoot mech in 180m (friendly LRM fire could happen)
- Spotting is know useful to pug with no voice over ip
- Free up the voice channel of voice over ip for tactics change
- Give a counter move to ECM that required skill not to Friendly Fire, situation awareness of a potential FF (very hard to see friendly vs foe in heat mode)
- Manually marking target create a micro management skill (recon)
- Manually marking target slow down the speed of locking target LRM
- No need to nerf or increase the other items
- AMS now has a use
- Still nerf ssrm
- Switch heat mode to normal mode cancel mark target
- Still can't relays info if your in the 180meter blanket
- Target should be yellow not red, because of the unknown Friend of Foe
- This create an environment very similar to your table top, It cloak but still visible in line of sight.

p.s. it seem we can like our own comments!

Edited by Kyrs, 06 December 2012 - 10:07 AM.

#43 Areleh


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Posted 06 December 2012 - 08:26 AM

View PostTikkamasala, on 06 December 2012 - 03:48 AM, said:

No, it should not. It would make ecm "totally" useless again. Moreover the gameplay of guided missile boats wouldn't change at all compared to before the patch; BAP would be mandatory...

Right, because having to move your LRM support to a distance of 500M, minimum, to achieve lock and fire will make ECM "totally" useless again. Your logic is a little weak, my friend.

Having a piece of equipment be able to knock a mech's effective range in half (Assuming they have BAP) is a potentially crippling effect. As it stands, 500M is about the range where most mechs engage, so forcing the enemy's fire support mechs into this range can be devestating for them. They can't just sit on a hill and missile spam. They have to move, they have to think. They have to make a choice; do I continue taking fire and fire a salvo, or do I retreat and find a new angle of engagement?

That kind of forced tactical thinking is something that makes MWO great. As it stands, ECM is a bit OP. Given that this is a new mechanic for the game, that's honestly expected. Given time, and discussions like this one, maybe we can help PGI bring ECM to a more balanced state.

#44 Tikkamasala


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Posted 06 December 2012 - 11:07 AM

View PostAreleh, on 06 December 2012 - 08:26 AM, said:

As it stands, ECM is a bit OP.

That depends on how the developers envision their game to be played. There are ways around ecm and some even require more teamwork and not just installing one more passive system.
Having a dedicated spotter TAGing or counter ECMing for the indirect fire support mechs, which needed teamwork before ecm to function perfectly, seems like a great addition to the game.

#45 Taryys


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Posted 06 December 2012 - 11:24 AM

Perhaps increase the time it takes for the red triangle to appear to say like 5 - 10 seconds of visual contact which gives some stealth and simulates a sense of sensor jamming, and then have it just increase the time it takes to gain a lock and read tactical data. have it break the ability to share targets while within the radius. It should disable Narc and Artemis, but TAG should not be affected at all. Have ECM reduce sensor ranges by 25 - 50% or so instead of the 75% that it is now.

Allow BAP and the sensor module to work as they do by decreasing the time delay brought on by BAP/Sensor module. This will

will give BAP and the sensor modules a place in scheme of info warfare.

Oh, and all Ravens should be able to carry ECM.

Edited by Taryys, 06 December 2012 - 11:24 AM.

#46 Codejack


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Posted 06 December 2012 - 11:42 AM

My proposal:

-BAP should allow targeting of ECM-covered units while the BAP mech is within the ECM bubble, perhaps with longer lock-on times.
-NARC should allow units outside of the ECM bubble to target ECM-covered units, and should last quite a bit longer considering the weight (6 rounds/ton?!).
-TAG should allow lock-on for a short period (5s) after it has painted a target, as well as have the longer range.

So, a streakcat would carry a BAP so he could still target ECM mechs, but it will take longer to get lock. An LRM-boat would want a TAG so he could paint a target a few times while he is locking on, and the longer duration should let the missiles at least get close before it wears off. NARC would be a scout weapon; sneak up to an ECM-covered group, NARC the one you want, then your whole team can see that mech and that mech only, helping concentrate fire.

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