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Man Bites Dog And Lrm Pilot Says There Is Nothing Wrong With Ecm.


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#1 Fajther

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 01:56 PM

Wow where to start. I have to admit i haven't tried 8v8 yet, but I have played a few hours now in pug matches. What is the big deal with ecm? yes you heard me. A catapult c-1 pilot just said that ecm isn't that big of a deal. I also thought there was nothing wrong with artimes. I didn't think there was anything wrong with ballistics and how really good they were a few weeks ago. I don't believe there is a problem now. Don't change ecm. Please. Lets us try and build a way around it. I am seeing cat pilots change the way they do things all ready. I am seeing a lot more k2 brawlers out there. (not that there weren't a lot all ready.) People just need to play a little metagame and see what comes up. I can still get kills with my lrms despite what people believed to the contrary. I have had several rounds where my 400+ damage was the highest damage of the group. I always believed that my medium lasers should be responsible for the close stuff and that has not changed. Catapults have always had trouble with close things. that has not changed. As always the best guy to kill the light biting my ankles is the guy next to me. That hasn't changed. Seems like ecm isn't that big of a deal. Minor changes to my loadouts area all that is needed. Life is good. If you have had good luck turning your lrmboat into something good please post your build below and share the love. This is our chance to play with our mechlabs and show the lights who is boss.

Flyby's story latter on seems to suggest that using a 315lx engine to stay in the sweat spot might be a way to handle ecm.

Someone farther down mentioned tag on their cat. Has anybody had good luck with tag? Please give me some numbers to look at.

Edited by Fajther, 05 December 2012 - 05:04 PM.


#2 Taryys

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 02:00 PM

I disagree and I normally play Cats even though I have not yet after this patch, since I am working on my ECM Raven.



My basic thoughts are on this are as follows:

Perhaps have increase the time it takes for the red triangle to appear to say like 5 seconds of visual contact which gives some stealth and simulates a sense of sensor jamming, and then have it just increase the time it takes to gain a lock and read tactical data. have it break the ability to share targets while within the radius. It should disable Narc and Artemis, but TAG should not be affected at all. Have ECM reduce sensor ranges by 25 - 50% or so instead of the 75% that it is now.

Allow BAP and the sensor (and other) module to work as they do by decreasing the time delay brought on by BAP/Sensor module.

BAP and the sensor modules will then have a place in scheme of info warfare. Not negating ECM, but helping to minimize its effects or enhancing the normal effects of an unhindered sensor suite.

Edited by Taryys, 05 December 2012 - 02:00 PM.


#3 Flyby215

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 02:04 PM

Thank you Fajther! Fellow C1 pilot, I salute you. I carry 2xLRM15+Artemis, x4 MEd Lasers, just as the C1 is made (with a few modifications).

We all agreed to go tunnel in my last matchup, of course for some reason everyone chased the scout leaving me alone to face down an ECM-Atlas. Using the 315XL engine (strongly recommended fellow C1s!) I was quick enough in the backstep to stay in that 20m sweetspot and cored that Atlas with a bunch of alpha strikes. Takes some finesse, but certainly not impossible. Ended the matchup dead, but over 700 dmg dealt despite ECM being in play.

The days of sitting on a perch and raining hell may be ending, but missiles are still very dangerous!

Edited by Flyby215, 05 December 2012 - 02:05 PM.


#4 Fajther

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 02:07 PM

I am not saying that pgi can't make little changes if they want to. I am just saying that the answer to life the univers and everything is not ecm. It's not 42 either. It is "Don't panic." :o

#5 Fajther

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 02:19 PM

It is weird that flyby Is running a the same c-1 that I am I wonder if Artemis got better and people weren't told about it.

#6 Flyby215

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 02:37 PM

View PostFajther, on 05 December 2012 - 02:07 PM, said:

I am not saying that pgi can't make little changes if they want to. I am just saying that the answer to life the univers and everything is not ecm. It's not 42 either. It is "Don't panic." :o


Did you just quote Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy? You sir, are my hero! :lol:

#7 Ozric

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 02:49 PM

As another C1 pilot who just strapped on a TAG and got on with it, I'm pretty sure that the ECM will get some further work. It is very, very strong in its current form, and seemingly has no drawbacks what so ever. But you can get round it. As has been mentioned, a good place for the support pilot to hover is around 300m behind the pack, and keeping a TAG lock from there is quite doable.

Personally I'd like to see the guardian suite removed and replaced by a few lesser ECM systems (one that disrupts targeting within 300m and one that disrupts targeting beyond 300m, for example), giving the ECM pilot a choice of electronic warfare roles and hopefully having less of a sweeping effect on the rest of the game. But I've seen a lot of other good ideas too.

The ECM is here to stay, and rightfully so, so there's no point stressing out about it. Support pilots and the streak psychos need not worry about long term game balance just yet. The devs know how strong it is already, they have admitted as much, and I'm sure they brought it in hard for some nefarious reason or another. Constructive observations are important here, but just moaning about it doesn't help anything.

Edit: Also, it's important to remember that a few days ago LRMs were in a very good place, and as they haven't changed at all, they are still in a very good place. There is just a very, very hard counter to them now. For all the time it exists in its current form, just consider it extra training. ;)

Edited by Ozric, 05 December 2012 - 02:56 PM.


#8 Jman5

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 02:54 PM

I'm starting to wonder if these guys complaining even play the game. I am still seeing people getting smacked hard by LRM fire, I'm still seeing streaks scoring hits.

What I'm not seeing are pure LRM/SSRM missile boats completely dismantling the other team single handedly.

#9 Kousagi

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 03:01 PM

Missiles are still just as good as before. I mean my little ECM raven still carrys SSRM's just for taking out other lights, cause they are still super effective. I can completely destroy jenners with the raven, its kinda sad almost.

#10 Fajther

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 04:35 PM

anybody else using a tag build? Is it working well? Does it stack on top of Artemis? I really want to know.

#11 Tennex

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 04:41 PM

if an unfun game mechanic like LRM is completely destroyed by a more fun, and sligly over complicated game mechanic like ECM i'm okay with that.

#12 Korm

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 04:46 PM

View PostFajther, on 05 December 2012 - 04:35 PM, said:

anybody else using a tag build? Is it working well? Does it stack on top of Artemis? I really want to know.


it makes Raven and Commando useful as dedicated light hunter-killers. Before this patch jenner was the unquestionable king of light mechs.

#13 Fajther

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 04:49 PM

Tennex it's not that it is destroyed, it is just takes more creativity. we are not complaining about it at all, we are putting our heads together. Maybe tag. maybe speed backwards walking xl cats. it is an exciting time. things are getting shaken up.

#14 Kinilan

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 04:53 PM

I've been using TAG as part of a real nice RVN-3L build and it works great. ECM lets me sneak around and the TAG lets me light up enemy mechs that think they are cloaked. The LRMs start raining down on them and by the time they figure out what is going on they have taken a beating.

#15 Dasht e Lut

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 04:58 PM

I too am seeing LRMs splash mechs to pieces. Myself included!

In Forest last night in my COM-2D (3x SSRM2, 1x MLAS, ECM). Get into a fight with an enemy COM-2D with the same gear as me. I thought I'd try and take down one of their ECM guys... So we start circling and dancing and flinging missiles at each other.

What I had failed to notice were: he/she didn't have a laser like I did... that COM-2D had TAG. The other thing that I had failed to notice was the LRM Cat sitting up on a ridge and that the enemy COM wasn't trying to kill me, it was spotting for the Cat and just wanted to pin me for an LRM kill. (Or kill me itself. Either way was a kill.)

Needless to say I thought the "incoming missile" warning was from the enemy COM's ssrms. Surprise! The rain falls and I'm splashed all over the lake bed!

ECM is fine just the way it is and it's a pretty good tool. But cooperation and teamwork are the best tools.

Cheers!

#16 Ragz

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 05:18 PM

i like that they keep dropping new things that mess up the ATTEMPTS at cookie cutter/ i win button builds and tactic. It keeps things moving mentally and keeps the game very very interesting. $0.02

#17 Dasht e Lut

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 07:43 PM

I'm bumping this 'cause I think that this thread has some very good points.

#18 Aerowind

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 07:55 PM

ECM is overpowered. This coming from a mostly ballistic user who's only missile boat is his Founder's Catapult. I'm even of the variety that carries his own tag (and did before ECM came out to boot). It's funny, because I'm usually dead set against all of the TT players crying "But it's not just like tabletop!", but they really do have a point here. Make ECM closer to TT rules. As it stands, streaks are completely worthless against ECM mechs and LRM boats can't fire on anything farther away than 450m with direct LOS. In that situation, you're better off just using direct fire weapons.

Like I said though, I mostly play ballistic heavy mechs, and ECM has more or less allowed me to just charge in while hugging an Atlas and not even think about being afraid. It's so easy to get kills in my 2x AC/20 4xML K2 now that it's not even funny. It used to be I had to be a bit careful because I was slow enough that LRMs would tear me apart unless I was careful. Now I just charge ahead mowing everybody down.

#19 Hakkukakt

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 04:15 AM

well ... for me the ECM do no difference on my A1 loaded with 6xSRM4 ... just that i must looking more the battlefield for finding my target on direct see B)





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