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When Are We Gonna Get A Coolant Flush Module



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#2941 Vapor Trail

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 11:54 PM

Well all of them, especially the MC version are consumable... So each can only be activated ONCE. For a one time shot of 35% of max cooling. (or once for 15 and once for 20). Then you gotta buy them again.

That said, a little bad idea, is still a bad idea. Coolant flush as a massless, critless mechanic. No Thank You.
Coolant flush that both requires the consumable module, and a consumable tonnage and crit using equipment item. Maaaaaaaaaaaaaybe.

I'm curious about the pricing. Most modules are priced (in Cbills) about the cost of a light to medium mech... wonder if these are going to be of the same scale. If they're cheap, they're going to adversely affect heat management mechanics. Certain builds are going to eat these like candy, while others aren't going to care one way or another (Gausskitty).

Example: Splatapult. Only thing that makes them anywhere near vulnerable is heat buildup from the weapons. Give them another "heat free" shot and it'll just result in another dead mech.

#2942 mwhighlander

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Posted 04 March 2013 - 11:58 PM

View PostColonel Pada Vinson, on 04 March 2013 - 11:54 PM, said:

152 pages no doubt thisll all get lost in the void..but...

Why is PGI not selling engines, weapons and everything else like modules for MC? Any of these items could easily be MC or CBILLS, and would no doubt generate some MC sales. As long as its always both MC and cbills. Same for Hero mechs - why not sell them for cbills but without the 30% bonus if yu buy with cbills? it IS pay to win - we cant stick an AC20 into an arm unless we buy a Wang. Lame!!!

Nothing in this game should be MC only. The coolant flush is ********. the damn heatcap is already so high and easy, and now you can overrirde before you ever shutdown, an "overide" macro will insure you never shutdown. Great for the WoW kiddies no doubt.

Now, we have a new handhold, the old fluid flush. in norespawn, One 35% flush means a lot - that crucial moment in battle when you can dump 1 more 6 ppc alpha/whatever. And as I'm reading it, now some dude with more money than someone else can buy one every match? Great, lets invite that rich 1% right into MWO to beat on us here too...as if they don't already suck us dry enough in the real-world.

I'm starting to feel like there are some really rich dudes who cant pilot a tincan that are simultaiosly nurfing this game into crapdom so they don't suck at it because they suck, while thinking of how they can bring in stuff like MC coolant to save their 6 ppc stalkers when they get jumped because 1 35% flush will give them that third alpha they need before a shutdown to kill one guy in 3 shots.

This community is pretty old, and there is a lot of money floating around. This is not the way to get it. Nevermind the whole "coolant flush is unbalanced" and now again another about face.

I tend to think this is a moneyman decision, and a ****** one at that. 6 months I've seen great progress, 2 steps forward, 1 back. I've learned to live with the hero mech crapdom MC only. But fluid flush for MC?

Lets say fluid flush for MC costs 100 MC a shot. lets say you use it for the tourney weekend we just had.

400 games played 400 fluid flushes thats 40000 MC.

Thats 180 dollars?

Lets say that guy wins the tournament, because since he paid for a 35% coolant module he also had room for 3 more rather than the guy who doesnt have 180 bucks to blow on fuild flush.

yeah, this is a crap idea.



Quoting you because you make a solid point.


I can guarantee you that someone at IGP had a MAJOR influence in this bs consumable system, because it requires players to continually purchase MC.

Edited by mwhighlander, 04 March 2013 - 11:59 PM.


#2943 AceTimberwolf

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 12:04 AM

While we are at it can we get rid of the You are being targeted BB voice. I appreciate it but it shouldn't be in the game as another hand holding device. Mind your surroundings so you don't get rear cored

#2944 MegaBusta

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 12:09 AM

View Postvalkyrie, on 04 March 2013 - 11:52 PM, said:

Didn't Paul write a thesis about "Free to Play" economies, based on NEXON's models, of all things? Would certainly explain a lot.

The moment I first heard about this the warning lights in my subconscious went off. I suppose it had to rear its ugly head at SOME point.

#2945 Apostal Sinclair

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 12:10 AM

Until I can see the pricing of the CB vs MC coolants... it's just P2W in my eyes, if normal players have to expand enormous amounts of CB funds to maintain a competitive edge against MC coolant users then what's the point of grinding up the CB's in the first place. At the moment the domination of high alpha strike builds is enormous due to PGI's implementation of the maps (small, cramped and dimmly light), even Alpine isn't changing that fact as builds rotate to long range high alpha builds (PPC Atlas and Stalkers anyone?).

I'm also curious how they implement the air raids... what's to stop a team of 8 MC dropping players dumping **** all over the enemy cap at the begining of a match to just wipe out half the force? Alot of questionable decisions yet again by PGI, and doubling back on previous comments once they believe enough time has elapsed.

#2946 Adrian Steel

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 12:10 AM

View PostGarth Erlam, on 06 December 2012 - 09:39 AM, said:

It's actually because it invalidates heat as an issue in a team vs. team environment.


Just a reminder to go to page 2 here and like the quoted post. For posterity of course.

#2947 AceTimberwolf

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 12:11 AM

It looks like Niko Locked my Profile views... I think he was getting jealous that i was catching up to him

#2948 ZnSeventeen

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 12:22 AM

Well, think it is a ridiculous idea that not only breaks lore and logic, but has the potential to really break game play. In any case, I am boycotting it until I am certain that it is not some form of P2W. I can live with MC purchasable mechs as long as they aren't really any better, the dev's got to make money, and with cockpit items, camo, all that jazz, I spend money on that stuff, but gold ammo is bull. That is the main reason I never spent a dime on WoT, gold ammo. If I could have ground out "gold ammo" somehow, sure, but just money, stupid.
Okay, my dislike of this idea is known, though if it is implemented well, I may feel otherwise.
Here's hoping.

#2949 Vapor Trail

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 12:23 AM

View PostAdrian Steel, on 05 March 2013 - 12:10 AM, said:


Just a reminder to go to page 2 here and like the quoted post. For posterity of course.


Quick way to do it is the little loopy arrow in the byline. Click that and it takes you to the quoted post. (For example click the one above and it'll take you to Adrian Steel's post. Click the one there and it takes you to Garth's.

#2950 Colonel Pada Vinson

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 12:37 AM

I'm gonna expound on this a little more.

4 modules, MC only 1 shot. 8 man team whos leader is a millionaire and gives each of his 8 lancemates 1,000 bucks to buy tons of MC.

each modules costs 100 MC per shot, 1 Fluid flush, 1 arty strike, 1 whatever the 3rd MC only idea was. And then advanced sensor for posterity.

so now we have 300MC in 1 time consumables. Money is no issue to this 8 man.

so we have 8 arty strikes. 8 fluid flushes of 35%. 8 whatever that 3rd crappy MC only thing was.

Yeah, that is so not P2W.

no...wait...

****

#2951 Dirus Nigh

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 12:45 AM

View PostI am, on 04 March 2013 - 11:53 PM, said:


I like the idea. Over heating is no fun.

Lets just fight and fight and fight and fight and... Oops I got capped.


I'm sorry that spam firing your PPCs have a consequence that you cannot manage to handle. I over heat very infrequently because I know how to A) build a mech that is heat efficient and know how to manage my fire in order to not over heat in the first place. I consider playing on a Caustic Valley a challenge, not a personal screw you by PGI.

If you do not want to lose a match by a base cap, defend your base.


View Postmwhighlander, on 04 March 2013 - 11:58 PM, said:



Quoting you because you make a solid point.


I can guarantee you that someone at IGP had a MAJOR influence in this bs consumable system, because it requires players to continually purchase MC.


After I got over my reactive WTF, and therapy through memes, this is the conclusion I came to. Paul, and Bryan did not make this decision. Some yuts executive in IGP got the idea that this would be great for their money maker.

The forum members need to look at it this way. Paul, Bryan, and the other devs at PGI make most of the design decisions for the game. However they are still at the whim of their bosses and the executives that run the company.

R.A. Salvatore did not kill Chewbacca, and Brian Micheal Bendis did not turn Marvel's Ultimate univers into utter drivel. They had to work with what they were told to do by the people who owned/ran the IPs in the best way they knew how. Just as the dev team for MWO has to do.

Edited by Dirus Nigh, 05 March 2013 - 12:46 AM.


#2952 p00k

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 12:50 AM

View PostDirus Nigh, on 05 March 2013 - 12:45 AM, said:

The forum members need to look at it this way. Paul, Bryan, and the other devs at PGI make most of the design decisions for the game. However they are still at the whim of their bosses and the executives that run the company.

and that matters because...?
ok, you want to believe that paul and bryan and the other devs at pgi are on our side. you want to believe that they adamantly rejected this obvious pay2win scheme, but were overruled by higher-ups. let's say you're right. so what? in the end the pay2win scheme is still implemented.

#2953 Peiper

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 12:55 AM

Magical popsicles to cool yourself off! Just give us your wallet, and we'll pull coolant popsicles out of the ether and give them to you mid-battle! We'll send either a faerie or a cherub to bring them to you right to your cockpit, then suspend time while you cool off, and restart it when your mech is no longer suffering the effects of your mishandling it!

Hey PGI, how about an ice cold beer instead? I'll pay for that. And I'll buy you guys beers too! You deserve them.

Oh, and dump the whole idea of coolant modules....

#2954 Dirus Nigh

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 12:59 AM

View Postp00k, on 05 March 2013 - 12:50 AM, said:

and that matters because...?
ok, you want to believe that paul and bryan and the other devs at pgi are on our side. you want to believe that they adamantly rejected this obvious pay2win scheme, but were overruled by higher-ups. let's say you're right. so what? in the end the pay2win scheme is still implemented.


I'm sorry was the rational comment about curbing blind vitriol towards Paul, and Bryan for every thing about the game to subtle? I am not assuming that Paul and Bryan love the idea any more than they hate it. I have no idea what they think about it. No more than you do. The fact of the matter is that not all decisions are made by them. However they are the ones that have to implement them.

#2955 AceTimberwolf

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 01:04 AM

5203 and holding strong... was he trying to devalue my importance? Don't understand what his goal was

Edited by AceTimberwolf, 05 March 2013 - 01:05 AM.


#2956 Flashripper

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 01:05 AM

Make MC and Cbill modules identical. As it is going to be implemented now is clearly PayToWin. I'm not gonna invest more into the game until the modules are identical.

#2957 Sol Fin

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 01:23 AM

Personally I think coolant flush should NOT be in game at all. In any competitive play it will allow to project more damage in very limited amount of time. Do you remember how armor HP was doubled? That was exactly a fix that was trying to solve that "quick kills" problem.

#2958 Eraos

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 01:25 AM

View PostDirus Nigh, on 05 March 2013 - 12:45 AM, said:

After I got over my reactive WTF, and therapy through memes, this is the conclusion I came to. Paul, and Bryan did not make this decision. Some yuts executive in IGP got the idea that this would be great for their money maker.

The forum members need to look at it this way. Paul, Bryan, and the other devs at PGI make most of the design decisions for the game. However they are still at the whim of their bosses and the executives that run the company.


Not sure that this is the case; but not sure that it isn't the case, either. One thing that I do know is that the difference between the MC and C-Bill purchased modules do smack of Pay2Win, in my opinion -- and I hate them; and what they represent for the path of the game.

Thus, let me put this into language that will hopefully speak to someone: I have disposable income, and I have not been shy about purchasing MC in the past. I own four hero mechs (Flame/Fang/Ilya/Yen-Lo-Wang), have spent a bunch of MC on paint; and have been on premium time for the past three months (which is basically right when I started playing the game -- December 2012).

Flatly put, I would guess that I am pretty close to their ideal customer -- and while I'm not going to threaten to take my ball and go home (i.e. it would be silly to threaten to leave a game that I still enjoy playing); I will simply say that I use my disposable income only to further goals and support companies that do things that I like.

I do not like this; and I won't be spending $0.01 more on MC while MC can buy things that C-Bills cannot; if those things are flatly better/more powerful (like many in this thread, I feel that previous to this the things that MC could buy were only convenience items that didn't particularly affect game balance).

So, whomever made this decision: I don't know how your profiteering math looks, but you can put all of the money that I otherwise would have paid you in the "negative" column, because you won't be seeing any of it. Maybe it doesn't make such a difference -- even if I spent money in the past, I am only one person; right?

Then again, I highly doubt that I am the only one that takes this position, particularly since this post is going to end up on page 152 of this comment thread -- I wonder how many people completely curtailing their spending it would take for the ledger to end up a net-negative for this whole Pay2Win thrust.

#2959 Rhenis

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 01:28 AM

The only sane way this can be implemented is if flushing coolant causes a percentage decrease to your total heat capacity and dissipation rate afterwards (you flushed coolant out of the thing meant to keep your stompy robot from overheating. Of course it's not going to work as well now). In it's current form it's a blatant cashgrab.

If PGI simply implements them simply as a P2W consumable they're going to turn MWO into MW4, with no one giving a **** about heat. This will help kill MWO.

#2960 semalferuzA

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Posted 05 March 2013 - 01:36 AM

It'd be nice if C-bill and MC were the same %/module slots but the MC one only had to be purchased once per mech.

Example: C-Bill 35% costs 500k C-bills per use. (Limit 1 per game)
MC 35% costs 300 MC per mech unlimited use. (Limit 1 per game)

However, I don't want coolant flush to be added period. I think it detracts from the game more than it adds. But if it has to be implemented it should at least be equal effectiveness.





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