Jump to content

When Are We Gonna Get A Coolant Flush Module



3046 replies to this topic

#2961 Eraos

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 27 posts

Posted 05 March 2013 - 01:25 AM

View PostDirus Nigh, on 05 March 2013 - 12:45 AM, said:

After I got over my reactive WTF, and therapy through memes, this is the conclusion I came to. Paul, and Bryan did not make this decision. Some yuts executive in IGP got the idea that this would be great for their money maker.

The forum members need to look at it this way. Paul, Bryan, and the other devs at PGI make most of the design decisions for the game. However they are still at the whim of their bosses and the executives that run the company.


Not sure that this is the case; but not sure that it isn't the case, either. One thing that I do know is that the difference between the MC and C-Bill purchased modules do smack of Pay2Win, in my opinion -- and I hate them; and what they represent for the path of the game.

Thus, let me put this into language that will hopefully speak to someone: I have disposable income, and I have not been shy about purchasing MC in the past. I own four hero mechs (Flame/Fang/Ilya/Yen-Lo-Wang), have spent a bunch of MC on paint; and have been on premium time for the past three months (which is basically right when I started playing the game -- December 2012).

Flatly put, I would guess that I am pretty close to their ideal customer -- and while I'm not going to threaten to take my ball and go home (i.e. it would be silly to threaten to leave a game that I still enjoy playing); I will simply say that I use my disposable income only to further goals and support companies that do things that I like.

I do not like this; and I won't be spending $0.01 more on MC while MC can buy things that C-Bills cannot; if those things are flatly better/more powerful (like many in this thread, I feel that previous to this the things that MC could buy were only convenience items that didn't particularly affect game balance).

So, whomever made this decision: I don't know how your profiteering math looks, but you can put all of the money that I otherwise would have paid you in the "negative" column, because you won't be seeing any of it. Maybe it doesn't make such a difference -- even if I spent money in the past, I am only one person; right?

Then again, I highly doubt that I am the only one that takes this position, particularly since this post is going to end up on page 152 of this comment thread -- I wonder how many people completely curtailing their spending it would take for the ledger to end up a net-negative for this whole Pay2Win thrust.

#2962 Rhenis

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 97 posts

Posted 05 March 2013 - 01:28 AM

The only sane way this can be implemented is if flushing coolant causes a percentage decrease to your total heat capacity and dissipation rate afterwards (you flushed coolant out of the thing meant to keep your stompy robot from overheating. Of course it's not going to work as well now). In it's current form it's a blatant cashgrab.

If PGI simply implements them simply as a P2W consumable they're going to turn MWO into MW4, with no one giving a **** about heat. This will help kill MWO.

#2963 semalferuzA

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 113 posts

Posted 05 March 2013 - 01:36 AM

It'd be nice if C-bill and MC were the same %/module slots but the MC one only had to be purchased once per mech.

Example: C-Bill 35% costs 500k C-bills per use. (Limit 1 per game)
MC 35% costs 300 MC per mech unlimited use. (Limit 1 per game)

However, I don't want coolant flush to be added period. I think it detracts from the game more than it adds. But if it has to be implemented it should at least be equal effectiveness.

#2964 MustrumRidcully

    Member

  • Legendary Founder
  • 9,890 posts

Posted 05 March 2013 - 01:40 AM

View PostVapor Trail, on 04 March 2013 - 11:54 PM, said:

Well all of them, especially the MC version are consumable... So each can only be activated ONCE. For a one time shot of 35% of max cooling. (or once for 15 and once for 20). Then you gotta buy them again.

That said, a little bad idea, is still a bad idea. Coolant flush as a massless, critless mechanic. No Thank You.
Coolant flush that both requires the consumable module, and a consumable tonnage and crit using equipment item. Maaaaaaaaaaaaaybe.

I'm curious about the pricing. Most modules are priced (in Cbills) about the cost of a light to medium mech... wonder if these are going to be of the same scale. If they're cheap, they're going to adversely affect heat management mechanics. Certain builds are going to eat these like candy, while others aren't going to care one way or another (Gausskitty).

Example: Splatapult. Only thing that makes them anywhere near vulnerable is heat buildup from the weapons. Give them another "heat free" shot and it'll just result in another dead mech.

The Gauss Kitty needs something else instead. I suggest "Ammo Supply". Simply calls in a supply aircraft that reloads 15/20/35 % of your ammo.
And for the Brawlers, a "Repair Drone". Launches a small drone that restores 15/20/35 % of your armour!

#2965 Budor

    Member

  • Veteran Founder
  • 2,409 posts

Posted 05 March 2013 - 01:42 AM

Dis fred is movin 2 slow.

Posted Image

#2966 gavilatius

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,407 posts
  • LocationGalatea (Mercenary's Star)

Posted 05 March 2013 - 01:48 AM

6Can Catapults and 6Part STALKERS with Coolant flushes and Artillery Strikes.

WHAT THE HELL PGI?!? ARE YOU TRYING TO SABOTAGE YOUR OWN GAME?

#2967 El Penguin

    Member

  • Elite Founder
  • 459 posts
  • LocationAntartica

Posted 05 March 2013 - 01:50 AM

Sadly I get the feeling they are desperate for money... They can't be surprised about this at all. I don't understand

#2968 AceTimberwolf

    Member

  • Legendary Founder
  • The Defiant
  • The Defiant
  • 1,053 posts
  • Location春日部市、埼玉県、日本; アメリカ: Arcadia, CA

Posted 05 March 2013 - 01:52 AM

View Postgavilatius, on 05 March 2013 - 01:48 AM, said:

6Can Catapults and 6Part STALKERS with Coolant flushes and Artillery Strikes.

WHAT THE HELL PGI?!? ARE YOU TRYING TO SABOTAGE YOUR OWN GAME?

Obviously we don't know that answer but it is moving towards a heralding もちろん!

still no movement in my 'you know what'

Edited by AceTimberwolf, 05 March 2013 - 01:56 AM.


#2969 Budor

    Member

  • Veteran Founder
  • 2,409 posts

Posted 05 March 2013 - 01:53 AM

View PostEl Penguin, on 05 March 2013 - 01:50 AM, said:

Sadly I get the feeling they are desperate for money... They can't be surprised about this at all. I don't understand


I dont (want to) understand it either :)

They could do other things. Far less people would moan about "better" hero-mechs, decals, matchmaker queue preferences, premium stat tracking, premium leaderboards etc.

TDK gets no ECM but you can p2w with modules, DAFUQ PGI?!?!

Edited by Budor, 05 March 2013 - 01:54 AM.


#2970 DirePhoenix

    Member

  • Legendary Founder
  • 1,565 posts
  • Google+: Link
  • Facebook: Link
  • LocationSan Diego

Posted 05 March 2013 - 01:53 AM

View PostThirdstar, on 04 March 2013 - 09:33 PM, said:


Long time Star Trek Online player here. I could tell you exactly how the slippery slope works. Eventually the P2W is just a part of the entire system. Did I mention that PvP is very very dead in STO?

As another long time STO player, I disagree that it is P2W, I can say that PvP was never really alive in STO either.

#2971 stjobe

    Member

  • Legendary Founder
  • Phoenix Overlord
  • Phoenix Overlord
  • 7,401 posts
  • LocationOn your six, chipping away at your rear armour.

Posted 05 March 2013 - 01:54 AM

View PostMustrumRidcully, on 05 March 2013 - 01:40 AM, said:

The Gauss Kitty needs something else instead. I suggest "Ammo Supply". Simply calls in a supply aircraft that reloads 15/20/35 % of your ammo.
And for the Brawlers, a "Repair Drone". Launches a small drone that restores 15/20/35 % of your armour!

Don't even joke about such things... You'll give someone ideas, and it'll show up in a patch down the road.

#2972 5th Fedcom Rat

    Member

  • Elite Founder
  • The Bold
  • The Bold
  • 534 posts

Posted 05 March 2013 - 02:01 AM

Skip along to 5:57 or so:



Or click: http://www.tubechop.com/watch/991408


.

Edited by 5th Fedcom Rat, 05 March 2013 - 02:28 AM.


#2973 gavilatius

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,407 posts
  • LocationGalatea (Mercenary's Star)

Posted 05 March 2013 - 02:11 AM

View PostDirePhoenix, on 05 March 2013 - 01:53 AM, said:

As another long time STO player, I disagree that it is P2W, I can say that PvP was never really alive in STO either.


God, I got tired of the grinding... and the lockboxes, and the "special chance" ships from said lockboxes
not that P2W as you think about it as TF2 did it.... but agreeing with the PVP though, as top tier weapons and skills basically rule the PVP and skill takes a backseat.

I think if Mechwarrior Online pulled a TF2 with Crates and Keys and some type of trading either between players or within Clans, there will be a bit of grumbling but at least it would be fair.

#2974 Stuii OCAU

    Member

  • Legendary Founder
  • 66 posts

Posted 05 March 2013 - 02:12 AM

View PostBlackSquirrel, on 05 December 2012 - 05:38 PM, said:

They already said never in a "ask the dev post" a few months back.

ha ha haaaaa ha ha haaaaaaa and it's MC P2W as well

#2975 Tarman

    Member

  • Legendary Founder
  • 2,067 posts

Posted 05 March 2013 - 02:18 AM

View PostDirePhoenix, on 05 March 2013 - 01:53 AM, said:

As another long time STO player, I disagree that it is P2W, I can say that PvP was never really alive in STO either.



I used to run with FleetOps. Our leader was highly dangerous and also very flush. I never once saw him get taken out by any combination of anything in PvP, even ganged up on by multiple targets, due to top-tier skill running top-tier kit. He'd give away his extra lockbox ships by the handful to members of the fleet. We were pimped out with fullset-purple and lockbox and store-tier stuff. People died. People one-shot died. People didn't even breach FO shielding on the ace captains, much less take them down.

We were pimped-out invincible murderers as a group; that's ultimately why I left. Boredom. Boredom and the realization that a large portion of my power and ability was from hanging with a flush crew and not any special effort on my part. I merely had access to much more powerful ships and kit than anyone not chipping in major cash or provided to by a wealthy patron.

#2976 Melcyna

    Member

  • Veteran Founder
  • 674 posts
  • LocationYuri Paradise

Posted 05 March 2013 - 02:21 AM

View PostZnSeventeen, on 05 March 2013 - 12:22 AM, said:

In any case, I am boycotting it until I am certain that it is not some form of P2W.

While i am still waiting on the fence to see where exactly this lies...

Don't you think that's odd???

i mean shouldn't the logical step be to boycott it AFTER you are certain it's a form of P2W, and not boycotting it BEFORE you are certain since that makes little sense.

#2977 Mahws

    Member

  • Veteran Founder
  • 670 posts

Posted 05 March 2013 - 02:29 AM

View PostsemalferuzA, on 05 March 2013 - 01:36 AM, said:

It'd be nice if C-bill and MC were the same %/module slots but the MC one only had to be purchased once per mech.

Example: C-Bill 35% costs 500k C-bills per use. (Limit 1 per game)
MC 35% costs 300 MC per mech unlimited use. (Limit 1 per game)

However, I don't want coolant flush to be added period. I think it detracts from the game more than it adds. But if it has to be implemented it should at least be equal effectiveness.

Still Pay2Win in my books. That's a good three or four matches of non-premium wins. So they MC paying player gets to use it whenever he wants and the non-MC paying player has to grind out four or five matches for every one he gets to use it.

#2978 Cebi

    Member

  • Elite Founder
  • 247 posts

Posted 05 March 2013 - 03:12 AM

View PostGarth Erlam, on 06 December 2012 - 09:39 AM, said:

It's actually because it invalidates heat as an issue in a team vs. team environment.


LOL?

I'm not saying this is a u-turn... but dude? Seriously?

Don't cave to the money men Garth. Stick to your principles.

#2979 AceTimberwolf

    Member

  • Legendary Founder
  • The Defiant
  • The Defiant
  • 1,053 posts
  • Location春日部市、埼玉県、日本; アメリカ: Arcadia, CA

Posted 05 March 2013 - 03:28 AM

View PostGarth Erlam, on 24 September 2012 - 09:05 AM, said:


Q: Have you guys considered adding Coolant Pods to increase heat dissipation of a mech's heatsinks when used? [vayne]
A: Yes, we considered and then dropped the idea. We found it more of a crutch and lead to more issues than it helped with. If you're in a long, multi-targetted single player game, it makes sense. In a player vs. player environment you get a MASSIVE increase in firepower for no cost, or it wouldn't be enough to make a difference (IE. the match would never last long enough for you running out of coolant to matter, because you've already killed two people. Or, it doesn't even last a single fight, then why even have it?) Does that make sense? [Garth]

Thanks for your interest, everyone! Hope you enjoyed the answers, and we'll be back here next week Posted Image

Cheers,
The MechWarrior Online Team


Might as well add picture
Posted Image
And a Link
http://mwomercs.com/...evs-18-answers/

Brought to you by a chained up Zeus

Edited by AceTimberwolf, 05 March 2013 - 03:31 AM.


#2980 DirePhoenix

    Member

  • Legendary Founder
  • 1,565 posts
  • Google+: Link
  • Facebook: Link
  • LocationSan Diego

Posted 05 March 2013 - 03:31 AM

View Postbenth, on 04 March 2013 - 10:56 PM, said:


Posted Image



Oh how unbridled rage can build a community.

Well, to be fair, there isn't a successful MMO that doesn't have forum posters full of rage. An MMO with a quiet forum is an MMO that no one cares about. There are many "passionate" fans of MWO obviously. And despite all the threats of leaving, I doubt many people actually will, because if people were actually serious about it, they wouldn't threaten or make a big show about it, they'd just leave.

I said before I am a long-time player of STO. When they announced F2P and the forums went all aflame, and then the lockboxes arrived and the forums went all aflame again, there were similar "threats"... most saying that they were going to leave for EvE or SWtOR... well, I think we've all seen what happened to SWtOR. And EvE, which has been around for almost 10 years now, has just announced that they've reached a quarter of the concurrent accounts that STO announced they had last month (when STO celebrated its 3rd year).

I also am a long time player of WoT. I think there's a lot of misdirected rage at that game. First, WoT is wildly successful. PGI would be lucky to have half the success of Wargaming.net. I have also never spent any cash on that game. Not for "Gold Ammo" (not necessary), not for premium tanks (also not necessary), not for camo/paintjobs (because their paymodel for camo is the same ludicrousness that MWO's initially was). I also find it interesting that while people complain about the gold ammo, I've never heard anyone in that game complain about repair/rearm costs or consumables.

And guess what? I have fun in WoT when I play it, even without all that "P2W". I don't take part WoT's Clan Wars (mainly b/c I don't belong to a WoT clan), and maybe that's why I see no need for that marginal, ultracompetitive edge. To me, WoT is a generic tank game though, it's good fun to run around and blast other tanks for a few minutes, but it's not the same as being immersed in a specific universe like BattleTech. I wonder if I was some huge war history buff if I would care enough about buying a specific model of tank, or only driving a certain faction's vehicles, or making sure I had a certain paintjob, but it's just internet tanks to me, I have my fun and log off, maybe come back in a couple weeks when I'm in the mood again.

And then I think back to MWO. B/c this is a franchise I do care about, I do want it to be "right" with what I know about the BattleTech universe. But truthfully, there's not a lot of us left (despite what the forums may lead one to believe, we're just more concentrated here). A lot of people in MWO probably only have vague memories of a computer game over a decade ago, when most of them were probably too young to care about the story behind it all. To them, this is generic "Internet Robots" just like like WoT is generic "Internet Tanks" to me. And they don't care that it's "right", they care if it's fun for them.

...which brings us back to the Coolant Flush. Because from what vague memories the younger generations have of MechWarrior, they remember that there was a "coolant flush" in it, so that must be what BattleTech is, and it's just not the same without that familiar "FWOOSH". They don't remember that it was the worst thing ever, an atrocity to whole point of having a heat system that you had to manage. But then, who is this game actually being made for? The declining hardcore passionate fans of the franchise like me? Or the vast masses of players unfamiliar with BattleTech?

Business-wise, it probably doesn't make a whole lot of sense to make much more than a nod to the original BattleTech, and instead pander to the new blood. If they lean too heavily on the universe, they risk alienating their larger audience. Interestingly enough, even with STO's still increasing numbers I still hear the occasional "I think I need to be some sort of ultra Trek nerd to get into STO", while the hardcore passionate fans are all over the forums screaming at the devs that it's still not Trek enough and demand some elaborate story arc featuring a throwaway character that made one appearance in the third season of ST:TNG. (and then even when that happens, yell at them for not getting it "right").

So I guess what I'm saying is that I'm not really concerned about the rage that people are throwing all over the place. No, that doesn't mean I approve of the Coolant Flush (because I still think it's a bad idea), but I'm not worried about the game while there are internet people that are angry. Being angry is just one way to show you care (probably not the best way). If people didn't care about MWO, they wouldn't be angry. And regardless of what they do with Coolant Flush, as long as people are having emotional reactions about the game, this game will have an audience to play to.

Also I just realized it's 3:30AM and I'm probably not making any sense...





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users