22 replies to this topic

[Denolven]

Currently I'm playing my little Spider, and recently added a Jenner to my garage. But I wonder which medium Mech would fit me best (I wanted to gather some experience before buying a medium Mech, so I went with lights).

For those who know WoT, I played the E8 Sherman, StuG, Cromwell and the Luchs (pre 8.4, EU server). I loved the versatility of being fast enough to fight the pesky smaller targets, but also having enough punch to kill heavies (if played right, a.k.a. flanking), or even go spotting for the team. Pretty much all my tanks were fighter-scout-hybrids, that was my thing.

I thought about getting a Trebuchet 5J. Love jetpacks, and it's probably the fastest of the versatile mediums. Initially I wanted the 7M, but 3 lasers might be a bit low for really hurting someone close up. Especially since my aiming skills are almost nonexistant. As stated above, I do about 20 damage per battle per MLaser in my lights. 30 if I do no scouting and focus on fighting.
What I do have however, is a decent battle awareness and the skill to know where to be, and when, once I got enough experience to judge properly what I see.

So, do you veterans have any suggestions what Mech I should take a closer look at?

[NRP]

Why not try something really different, like a heavy or assault?

[Buckminster]

If you are a WoT guy, you might want to consider a mech that uses ballistics or PPCs. I know that I find the "keep your laser on target" thing annoying, I'm much more at home with PPCs and ACs. Granted, just about any mech with lasers can be modded to use PPCs.

A good idea is to play with something like this: http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/ before you buy. It has a built in mechlab, which will let you toy around with ideas before you commit the c-bills.

And don't assume that all heavies are slow. The dragon is known for being fast (almost 100kph with a max engine), and even the Catapults (my favorite) can easily hit 85. The Cats also have the ability of Jump Jets (except on the K2), which is a very nice touch. Sure, they're slow compared to a Spider, but the extra weight allows you to bring a lot of punch.

Edited by Buckminster, 15 March 2013 - 06:22 AM.

[SchwarzerPeter]

The Dragon can go relay fast with a XL350. But you are some limited to your weapons than.
Usually they fit more in the support role.

But they are not very god scouts, because they are to big

[Ewigan]

The thing is: Any Medium can do anything.

Speed, Armor, Firepower. Pick two.

With that you can of course pick basically any medium, if you wanna go REALLY fast though, take a cicada. What is more a light, but has the tonnage to be called a medium.

Seriously i do not know what to tell you what mech to pick.
I own Hunchies and Cents. My Cents are faster then my hunchies, but my hunchies have this AWESOME torso twist and weapons loadout.
Trebs will be added at some point

[Denolven]

Ewigan, on 15 March 2013 - 06:41 AM, said:

Speed, Armor, Firepower. Pick two.

How about 66% of all three

Thanks for the smurfy link, played around with it a bit.
I know I can play heavies, that's not the problem. I just tend to have more fun with lighter avatars that need to utilize speed/maneuverability. Honestly, I find it a bit boring to sit in a 100 ton steel monster and slowly walz over everything. Although I admit the Dragon catched my attention when he intercepted us and managed to follow us quite well. I'll likely take a look at it after doing some medium action.

As for the mediums, I'm used to tanks like the Cromwell which have bad accuracy, but good dpm and movement. That means knowing when and where to go in is very rewarding. Until then it's waiting for the gap, or countering opponent lights, or scouting.
So I guess I'd like to try the same here. Focus on low/mid range combat when the right moment comes, as my eye-mouse coordination is rather bad compared to what I see in videos (although eye-hand coordination is good). Otherwise doing team tasks, and hopefully killing Ravens instead of getting pwned by them

Thought about those lasers as well. I use them to shoot somewhere near the target, then adjusting the aim while the beam is on, basically drawing lines on the target. I know this severely reduces the dpm and even spreads it on several components. But it's still better than hitting only 1 of 5 shots. Or maybe not?

Edited by Denolven, 15 March 2013 - 07:09 AM.

[Benyamin]

Fellow tanker here (even though I haven't played in a month or so.) From what I can tell (since I've yet to pilot one) The Cicada is a faster medium that can pack a punch (and run ECM if that's your thing).

I know from personal experience, I love the Hunchbacks. The 4SP is a good solid build. Equip it with the 250 engine, and it's got decent enough speed to duck into cover, and even flank some of the bigger boys on the field. Speed tweak only helps this. If you like ballistics, the 4G and 4H can do that, and I enjoy that platform as well.

I guess it all comes down to personal taste.

[Royalewithcheese]

Ewigan, on 15 March 2013 - 06:41 AM, said:

The thing is: Any Medium can do anything.

Speed, Armor, Firepower. Pick two.

Unless it's a Centurion! (OP, get a Centurion.)

[Buckminster]

Denolven, on 15 March 2013 - 07:07 AM, said:

But it's still better than hitting only 1 of 5 shots. Or maybe not?

Maybe, or maybe not.

I present my stats with ERPPCs and Medium Lasers. I'll do a little to make them less apples/oranges, but it gets the point across.

ERPPCS - Shots: 602 Hits: 387 Acc: 64.29% Dam: 3942
Med Las - Shots: 302 Hits: 267 Acc: 88.41% Dam: 648

But here's the math - look at damage per hit. The ERPPCs damage per hit is 10.18, a hair above the theoretical 10 due to crits. The Medium Lasers damage per hit is 2.42, well below the theoretical 5 a medium laser can do. So even though I'm hitting 15% more of the time, my shots are only doing 50% of the available damage. The end result is that even though my accuracy is higher, my effective damage is lower.

Now I know that part of the discrepancy is that ERPPCs do more damage, so of course they are more dangerous. But the point I'm making is that the increase in accuracy that I gain from a laser weapon does not make up for the reduced effectiveness of each shot.

Edited by Buckminster, 15 March 2013 - 07:33 AM.

[Denolven]

I want my first medium with jetpacks. I love those things. They let me take the direct way and surpass cliffs/canyons/walls, which is very helpfull to get in and out alive.
How about that one, as a first try: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...463517967994cdd

Is there a Medium or fast heavy with ballistics and jetpacks that is suited for mid to close range combat?

EDIT: Haha, probably switching those medium lasers for something else xD

Edited by Denolven, 15 March 2013 - 07:37 AM.

[Lyoncet]

From what I hear, the Centurion C9-A with triple SRM 6 and no ballistics is seen as the most competitive medium in the game. Played lots of Hunchies myself with 245-250 engines, which gets ~90 kpm with tweak. But I hate that the hunch is so easy to blow out. Yes, the SP doesn't have it, but to elite it you have to get two hunched variants.

I have little experience with the Treb, but if you like mobility, it posts good speed with jump jets. And I hear it's got good support or striker potential. I just tend not to like the chassis as much as others.

And if you have the 10+ million CBills you need to make it not suck, the Dragon can easily break 100 kpm with tweak and the mandatory XL engine. And it has a good range of hardpoint configurations between the variants, so it can cater to a wide variety of playstyles. It sounds like you like flankers/skirmishers, and the Dragon may be the best out there if you've got the money and the skill.

[Buckminster]

Denolven, on 15 March 2013 - 07:35 AM, said:

Is there a Medium or fast heavy with ballistics and jetpacks that is suited for mid to close range combat?

If you don't mind being called cheesy, look into what is called the "splatcat" - a Catapult A1 with 6 SRM6 on it. With a big enough XL engine on it it moves at 85 kph, can take jump jets, and packs a wallop at close range. And while the SRMs aren't exactly ballistics, they act very similar. The biggest issue is that it has no long range ability, and missile spread reduces it's effectiveness at medium range.

If you can't tell, I'm a fan of the Cats.

Here's a random oddball option:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f6fe03e90cc1e3d

Catapult C1. 315XL and 4 jump jets will get it moving, twin ERPPCs in the torso will act as your ballistics, and the DHS will help keep the whole thing cool. And while only mounting two ERPPCs may seem undergunned, you'll be able to keep up an almost constant rate of fire with them.

Edited by Buckminster, 15 March 2013 - 08:28 AM.

[Dauphni]

Denolven, on 15 March 2013 - 07:07 AM, said:

Thought about those lasers as well. I use them to shoot somewhere near the target, then adjusting the aim while the beam is on, basically drawing lines on the target. I know this severely reduces the dpm and even spreads it on several components. But it's still better than hitting only 1 of 5 shots. Or maybe not?

Look at it like this: Check your weapon stats. Say you've fired n shots with a certain weapon, and that weapon does x damage, that means if you're 100% effective, your damage stat should read n*i. Of course, it's going to be lower, so you can divide the actual damage done by the optimal damage to get your actual effectiveness with a certain weapon. That way, you can easily find out what works for you, and what doesn't.

Now take this as an example:

Buckminster, on 15 March 2013 - 07:32 AM, said:

ERPPCS - Shots: 602 Hits: 387 Acc: 64.29% Dam: 3942
Med Las - Shots: 302 Hits: 267 Acc: 88.41% Dam: 648

ERPPCs do 10 damage, so the calculation is 3942 / (602 * 10) = 0.6548, or about 65% effectiveness.
For the Med Las (5 damage) it's 648 / (302 * 5) = 0.4291, or about 43% effectiveness.

Now it's obvious he's a much better shot with PPCs than lasers. Of course, the various weapon types' characteristics make this a little bit fuzzy, but I feel it's a close enough approximation to be able to gauge and compare your skill levels across weapons.

[Denolven]

ER PPCs also cost 600k cbills
But yeah, I see the point. Tried one on my little Spider and noticed a damage increase. Although that's mainly because I spent most of the time sniping (and missing, lol) instead of scouting, which might not be the original intention.

I have 47% with ER PPC and 34.8% with MLasers.
With the machine gun I have 50%, despite having the lowest damage per battle.

Well, that's a good example of the difference between efficiency and effectiveness. Just because I'm good with MGs doesn't mean I do something

Anyway, I have decided to try the Trebuchet first - can't let go of the jetpaks ^^
I'd like to try ballistic weapons (real ones), but the 5J doesn't offer that possibility. However, I see that the 7K has a fairly balanced setup, and I'll need two other variants anyway. So I'll test ballistics with the 7K. Any hints/warnings on that one?

Thanks for all your feedback

[Siluss]

I had a 7K i loved which is more for sniping/long range dmg. 1er or reg ppc, 1 ac5 and 2 lrm 5s (the highest amount of missles id put using a 2 missle launcher.) a 315 xl eng and fill in with ammo and DHS to taste never did too much dmg in it but great on the new large map.

the 7M is a good all around mech with JJ and either LRMs or SRMs and a few mlas but i sold those because i wanted a 3c because i wanted more speed (fastest treb but no JJ) and i didnt like the narc missle slot for the 7m.

[Denolven]

Yeah the 3C can be awesome. But the hardpoints are all scattered, which makes aiming and weapon grouping a bit complicated (arms/torso crosshairs).

I got me a Dragon 1N now, for having something with ballistics. And after some difficulties with the setup, I found something that is fun and seems to be not too useless.
1st build (couldn't handle all the buttons): http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e2ea2102250c96b
build now, simpler: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ce6221cf9acb189

I had a few situations where I missed the TAG, though. But due to limitation of slots, I can't just add it. So I wonder, considering the playstyle (skirmisher, limited long range support or scouting where applicable), which item is more valuable: the MG for critting, or the TAG for "arty support please".
Has anyone experience with both?

Or maybe I'll just use the XL350, switch to normal armor and take both.

[Tremendous Upside]

If you want simple and want something that'll be effective, I'd try something more like this:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...17b03677725e3fe

2 weapon groups. One for the arm-mounted stuff. One for the torso. Can't get much simpler than that. Use the arms at range and as you approach targets to strip armor and use the torso mounted weapons to blast internals and punch at close quarters. Use both together for the full alpha when you have stuff lined up perfectly.

The 1N also works great with a gauss-based build. GR+2LLs is surprisingly effective, and a GR+2MLs+2SRM4's is solid as well.

[Ewigan]

You can always go real simple AND versatile with boating long range weapons that work for close range, too.

Like Ballistics without the Gauss (it's just too fragile and WILL explode), like Large Lasers and ERPPCs.
Boat any of those and you should be fine over any distance.
5 LL Stalkers or 4LL CAT-K2 are really easy mechs that just work. (as an example)

[Denolven]

Banky, on 18 March 2013 - 07:08 AM, said:

If you want simple and want something that'll be effective, I'd try something more like this:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...17b03677725e3fe

That's not simple at all. There are at least 4 weapon categories: direct aim long range, direct aim short range, lead aim all ranges, lead aim short range. Plus all the positions act differently (sniper weapon in left shoulder, dakka weapon in right arm etc.), so when using cover I need to be able to fire a specific harpoint.
Unless I fight a stationary assault head on in melee on flat ground, I'll never be able to apply all those weapons effectively with my 3-button-mouse and my limited skill. I can handle 2 categories, and maybe a little tool like TAG or LRM, but only if I don't use the other ones at the same time.

Maybe I'm just too much of a noob (or too old). Playing a heavy doesn't make the game slower, it just makes YOU slower. Everyone else is still running around like mad, firing lots of stuff and microing damage distribution on both sides.

However, when playing with my friend in his Ilya Muromets, I'll try your build. Have the XL300 from my Jenner, and we want to have similar speed anyway. It certainly has alot more DAKKA than my single Laser+LB10. Maybe I should just use two buttons: 1 for sniping, 2 for close up alpha strike

[Rigiroth]

The Centurion is your best bet. While they excel using missiles and energy weapons (Because what mech right now doesn't), they have the right arm for mounting all sorts of ballistic weapons.

The CN9-D specializes in speed and is good for a fast flanker (2 SRM6s, 2 ML, a MG for kicks)
The CN9-AL is a highly underrated Centurion, being able to mount either PPCs effectively on the arms are being a good LRM Boat (2 15s, 2 ML, Tag, and some other laser)
The CN9-A is probably the crowd favorite right now with the ability to make a super zombie mounting 3 SRM6s and 2 ML.
The CN9-YLW isn't that great, but it is good for grinding up Cbills and you can do a few things with it like Double UAC5s or a super zombie.

I own HBK, CIC, and CN9s. Treb's the only one I skipped because it mostly seemed like a more limited version of a CN9 because the CN9-could fit two 15s just as easily as the the Treb.