92 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

I don't know? I haven't ran into a time when my Cicada couldn't get back to stop the Cap for a few minutes even from the enemy base. I haven't ran into a cap boost yet so I will hedge just a little. often we set up on our side of the DMZ till we know what the enemy is doing or what the PUGs are doing. either way, we don't always rush the enemy base and we don't always camp. makes the game more interesting see.

[AdmirableAdmiral]

YOUR GLORIOUS LEADER HAS COME UP WITH A GREAT SOLUTION.
kill limit before cap. atleast 3-4 mechs needs to be downed before a cap can be done that way there's some mech shooty action with splosion bits and there's capping for when the gits r muckin about and ya can't find them. everyone wins because the game doesn't end in 2 minutes due to a cap rush, light mechs are forced into their assigned role of scouting. you can still take the back way to completely back door the opposition. and when the other team is much less of a threat, capping is unlocked and you can win without risking further damage.
rewards the well played strategy over the thoughtless run through that tunnel approach.

[Panzerjotun]

I agree - sick and tired of the bogus objective, e.g. base capture.

[Joseph Mallan]

klimentvoroshilov, on 14 December 2012 - 11:28 AM, said:

YOUR GLORIOUS LEADER HAS COME UP WITH A GREAT SOLUTION.
kill limit before cap. atleast 3-4 mechs needs to be downed before a cap can be done that way there's some mech shooty action with splosion bits and there's capping for when the gits r muckin about and ya can't find them. everyone wins because the game doesn't end in 2 minutes due to a cap rush, light mechs are forced into their assigned role of scouting. you can still take the back way to completely back door the opposition. and when the other team is much less of a threat, capping is unlocked and you can win without risking further damage.
rewards the well played strategy over the thoughtless run through that tunnel approach.

Sorry we've been doing that one too for about 3 months now. It nets more money and exp. HOWEVER, it is not mandatory since the game will give me a bonus cause i capped your base and i didn't lose armor or expend ammo so I am still ahead.

Your leader has a new idea. Get Over your Foolish Self and Accept People Will Play The Game To Make Themselves Happy and You Pithed!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 14 December 2012 - 11:33 AM.

[Jace11]

A general problem, but Frozen City and River City seem to especially bad given that two distinct routes are available left and right, which, should each team take a different route, they will pass without meeting leading to an ironic "gg" from the fastest cappers. Forest Colony is not as bad and teams cannot generally avoid combat with each other on approaches to bases. Caustic valley is somewhere in between but only if one teams takes the stupid route to the right through the lake etc, while the other team G lines.

[Hellboy561]

Cleverbird, on 14 December 2012 - 09:51 AM, said:

I agree, the game would be more fun if the bases were to be removed

I half agree with you. Get rid of one base, your either attacking or defending. Be proactive and setup an ambush before the attacking team reaches you?! Sounds more appealing than the whole "Go light, or go home" approach at the moment.

Maybe give the "base" and actual wall and stuff? You'know, make JumpJets have more uses, give the defenders some point defense that can be turned against them if they don't hold onto the turret controls. There is so much that could be done over "Stomp" and "Shoot". Don't get me wrong i love that part of the game.

These options wouldn't even make much difference in PUGs. If your new to the game its better to have clear objectives, this will mean that you will get a hold of the core concept of Mech Warfare whilst still helping your team.

Edited by Hellboy561, 14 December 2012 - 11:41 AM.

[AlexWildeagle]

RobarGK, on 14 December 2012 - 10:42 AM, said:

I agree that capping for a win is boring, which is why I instead will engage the enemy instead of followin the train sometimes. If you're to slow to move to engage then defend. Nobody's making you rush their cap.

Its never been an ether/or scenario. I engage the enemy, when 5 of them are dead I head to cap as do one or 2 others (all voluntary) We cap, sometimes the timer runs out before they kill the last and sometimes not. We gave it a try at least.

As to others whining about not being forced to use teamspeak, you're just looking for feeble excuses. I don't use teamspeak but still somehow communicate with the team when I want. it's not rocket science.
Base cap is no more biogus an objective as is killing everyone. You just get more money by capping. Killing everyone kills your salvage value and only one person gets the credit for the kill.

But a large part of this is what you make of it, so all this QQing shows a lack of tactical thinking and reasonable intelligence.

[Dagger6T6]

combat is not always being the e-Rambo all over the map pew-pewing yer lazors...

tactics, strategy, and DEFENSE are a huge part of combat

to paraphrase... "This %$^# chess, it aint checkers" -Alonso Harris

[AdmirableAdmiral]

Joseph Mallan, on 14 December 2012 - 11:33 AM, said:

Sorry we've been doing that one too for about 3 months now. It nets more money and exp. HOWEVER, it is not mandatory since the game will give me a bonus cause i capped your base and i didn't lose armor or expend ammo so I am still ahead.

Your leader has a new idea. Get Over your Foolish Self and Accept People Will Play The Game To Make Themselves Happy and You Pithed!

and I'm saying make it completely mandatory.
you can't test anything in a so called beta if the same thing is done every game. some times you have to throw someone down the corridor to show them the right way to go
as it is the state of this game is terrible. ofc with each new patch the community is worse.
to clearify. the table toppers get worse

Edited by klimentvoroshilov, 14 December 2012 - 11:45 AM.

[Shepherd]

The base is there to provide an incentive for a diverse team.

If there is nothing to do in a match but blow up the enemy mechs, why would anybody take anything but the most heavily armed and armored mechs? It would be too linear. To simple. So they add in the base capture element. Now fast mechs are worth taking, because they can slip past a slower enemy team and capture the base. Both teams need those fast mechs, even if one of the teams doesn't want to capture a base, because they need to be able to respond to a base cap attempt. And now that you have little fast mechs, you need medium sized ones to hunt down and kill the enemy's lighter mechs.

I know people will say "we don't need a capturable base to take light mechs. People who want to do pilot lighter mechs will do so either way." To that I point to ten years of experience playing Mechwarrior 4, where there was no base to capture in most modes of play. 90% of all mechs piloted were assault class. You would only see lighter mechs in league play with enforced drop tonnage limits. The only OTHER mode of play was Capture the Flag. And guess what? That mode saw a variety of chassis taken across all weight classes because the mode of play included the need for big beefy brawlers, swift hunters, and ultra speedy lights.

Objectives are good for the game. There will be other game modes, but for the most part they will all have objectives of some sort or another. In the future I hope to see a Solaris VII arena game mode where you can play 1v1 and team deathmatches in small arena style maps. Those will be great fun! But they can't be all the game offers. You need objectives.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

cache, on 14 December 2012 - 11:26 AM, said:

One or two heavy/assault Mechs on base until your main force make contact with the enemy main force. One should be a DDC with 3 SSRMs. The other should have streaks or pulse lasers. Once the furball has started, scouts fall back so they can protect base and keep the lights off of your main force. Base defenders can then move up to the fight. The other option is to have your scouts start capping in order to turn/split the enemy force.

streaks hit the lag shields?

I say we need more lances of lights running the cap speed module. break it more. maybe people will see a problem lol

I think I empathize with the lowtaxxer's reasons for doing what they do now

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 14 December 2012 - 11:50 AM.

[IceSerpent]

klimentvoroshilov, on 14 December 2012 - 10:10 AM, said:

how is it a failure to think tactically. lets run through your whole TACTICS for a minute.
you like base rushing, say both teams base rush, no combat, this is suddenly mech nascar and nobody needs weapons.

Simple - your team has TWO objectives, capture enemy base and defend yours. If the other team made it to your base and capped without a single shot being fired, then you failed the at least the second objective (and possibly the first if they outcapped you). Therefore whatever tactics you used was not good enough.

Quote

you say everyone should start defending their bases instead. if everyone is defending then nobody is fighting because there's no LoS on the enemy and there's usually some large piece of earth between both teams. nobody has moved from the base and we have 100 ton trenches and it's ww1 in 3020s

"Defending" means preventing enemy team from capping your base, it doesn't necessarily mean "park in the square and stand still". What tactic you employ to get that done is entirely up to you and you do have quite a few options there.

Quote

the perfect scenario that happens rarely, by some miracle both teams decide to base rush along the same path and bump into each other. so in order to capture the full essence of the game we'd either have to
A) turn every map into a narrow long hallway with no escape
remove base capping or discourage it completely by making it almost worthless to do so in terms of reward

Or C) Use scouts for actual scouting just like everybody else does (shocking idea, I know).

[Lugh]

klimentvoroshilov, on 14 December 2012 - 09:41 AM, said:

it defeats the purpose of any stompy mech game with big beefy guns when you add in a racing element to see who can capture the other base first without firing a shot.

PGI, back to basics please, this is a mech COMBAT game first and a BASE CAPTURE game second or ideally not at all

Here's an idea. Organize your team for a defense of your own base and force the game to become the kill them all style you crave.

Your lack of leadership and intelligence are to blame, not the game design.

[Fate 6]

Bilbo, on 14 December 2012 - 09:48 AM, said:

You could set up to defend your base until you know where they are going. If they are rushing you get your brawl at the base. If not, you have some idea how they are setting up before you engage.

You're suggesting that both teams just stalemate on opposite sides of a hill. Back in the day this happened, and with ECM implemented not even LRMs can break the stalemate now.

The opposite would be both teams base rushing which is what the OP is commenting on. I agree with the OP, I just want to shoot things.

What we need is attack and defend. The time limit will make it so the attackers are forced to attack (since they have to destroy the enemy base/team or lose). No more stalemates, fights WILL happen.

Edited by Fate 6, 14 December 2012 - 11:55 AM.

[Vila deVere]

klimentvoroshilov, on 14 December 2012 - 09:41 AM, said:

it defeats the purpose of any stompy mech game with big beefy guns when you add in a racing element to see who can capture the other base first without firing a shot.

PGI, back to basics please, this is a mech COMBAT game first and a BASE CAPTURE game second or ideally not at all

No.

[AdmirableAdmiral]

IceSerpent, on 14 December 2012 - 11:49 AM, said:

Simple - your team has TWO objectives, capture enemy base and defend yours. If the other team made it to your base and capped without a single shot being fired, then you failed the at least the second objective (and possibly the first if they outcapped you). Therefore whatever tactics you used was not good enough.



"Defending" means preventing enemy team from capping your base, it doesn't necessarily mean "park in the square and stand still". What tactic you employ to get that done is entirely up to you and you do have quite a few options there.



Or C) Use scouts for actual scouting just like everybody else does (shocking idea, I know).

except I've yet to encounter a single light pilot that does any actual... scouting
they're either the torch holder of the team (ecm's) or are part of the problem at hand which is base rushing. if ya scroll up you'll see my solution to this is locking the base's till a specific number of mechs have been downed in the game.

Lugh, on 14 December 2012 - 11:51 AM, said:

Here's an idea. Organize your team for a defense of your own base and force the game to become the kill them all style you crave.

Your lack of leadership and intelligence are to blame, not the game design.

you organize a group of public players to do anything. chances are maybe 2 other people will listen, the rest either ignore you, do the exact opposite to spite you, or don't even understand english at all in the first place

[Joseph Mallan]

klimentvoroshilov, on 14 December 2012 - 11:43 AM, said:

and I'm saying make it completely mandatory.
you can't test anything in a so called beta if the same thing is done every game. some times you have to throw someone down the corridor to show them the right way to go
as it is the state of this game is terrible. ofc with each new patch the community is worse.
to clearify. the table toppers get worse

So let me get this straight, You want the game to play only the way you want cause you only care if you have fun? Dude go play solitaire! cause as i see it My goal is to ruin your day on the battlefield. if i can do that by taking your stuff without firing a shot or if i have to kill your team before you know what hit you! That's fun for me. Also having a planet wide knockdown bahlbusting battle. There are lots of ways to have have fun playing this game. But you want it to be just the way you like!

You do realize TT players have played thousands of scenarios since '86. Everything from 1 on 1 to planetary assaults... (Why heck we TT players even had Space naval battle between two Clan fleets!) with multiple objectives and multi year campaigns. you really wanna compare notes on how to make a game fun sir? Do you really?

gotta fix this for you:

Quote

except I've yet to encounter a single PUG light pilot that does any actual... scouting

There, that's more accurate!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 14 December 2012 - 12:01 PM.

[Jakob Knight]

It's interesting to see the same pattern continuing.

Teams: PUGs complained that organized teams were wrecking them, even though all they had to do was work as a team. Players complain that they shouldn't have to work as a team. Team size cut down to 4 to satisfy the players who refuse to work as a team.

LRMs: Counterable if you think about what you are doing. Calls for nerfing because players don't want to think, just charge in blasting. After several nerfs, ECM is introduced, all but removing them from the game. Combat becomes a slugfest where teams charge into one another until one side is pounded flat.

Now, we have players who think base capture should be removed from the game. Why? Because they don't want the hassle of having to think and work as a team?

No, this is just the players unequipped to play MWO complaining. The jocks who could never get their brains around anything but simple 'lower head and charge' strategy.

I have a better idea. For all of you who think Base Cap should be nerfed or removed, Hawken is this way --------->

We won't miss you.

Edited by Jakob Knight, 14 December 2012 - 12:00 PM.

[Angus McBeef]

This again. I find it amusing when someone thinks their definition of 'fun' is the only one.

[IceSerpent]

klimentvoroshilov, on 14 December 2012 - 11:56 AM, said:

except I've yet to encounter a single light pilot that does any actual... scouting

Which has nothing to do with game design and everything to do with your teammates not doing their job. The only way to "cure stupid" in this particular case is to get some decent light mech pilots on your team.