326 replies to this topic

[Regr]

I don't really support the idea of premium only mechs. As long as they can be obtained trough non-premium gameplay, and if not, they aren't any better than normal ones (just looks), I'm fine with it. And premium ammunition (WoT) is just ridiculous.

What I mostly want from the game is to have nice, balanced matches. I'd much rather wait the 20-40 seconds and have well balanced matches than get instaqueued and fight enemies you can't even scratch. That is the problem with WoT and I hope we won't see it in MWO.

[Christopher Dayson]

Tyzh, on 22 May 2012 - 08:00 PM, said:

You mean the part of my post that I opened with "personally"? I suppose having a preference for being sure I won on my own merit and not because I'm using a variant not available to everyone could be considered a problem.

It's not really the crux of my post or position, however.



I'm sorry, but the hard-points determine what the mech can or cannot do just as much tonnage and critical spaces. All of those things work in tandem to balance a mech.




If variants become an issue of nothing more than play style, what play styles do you think should be premium only for any given mech?




You are quite welcome. The "Founder's Mechs" have gotten me quite flustered and putting my thoughts down in words made me feel a great deal better about the subject.

The odds and statistics of a variant being OP certainly do favor a free mech being the offender, that's very true. Assuming that the free variants of a mech outnumber the premium.

Here we go again. I shall try to explain again how Hard Points do not equal Pay to Win. Ever.

Two Mech's, both 75 tons.

I have Mech A, it has 1 ballistics hard point in the right torso, and two energy hard points in each arm.

I also have Mech B, which is a variant of A, that has 6 energy hard points in each arm and the right and left torso's. It is only available in the cash shop for real cash.

Now Mech B looks like it might be Pay to Win, except by the time you factor in Internal Structure (7.5 tons) , Engine Weight( let's say 3/5 movement, 10 tons or 5 tons if XL), Armor Weight (14.5 tons for max) , Gyro (3 tons), and Cockpit (3 tons), we're left with 37 tons for weapons and heat sinks.

Mech A throws a Gauss Rifle (16 tons w/ammo), 2 ER PPC's (14 tons), and 2 Medium Lasers (2 tons) into weaponry and 5 additional double heat sinks (To cover 30 heat). Mech A can thusly put out 45 damage optimal with a heat build up of 7 if not moving.

Mech B puts in 4 large lasers (20 tons) 4 Medium Lasers (4 tons) leaving 13 tons for double heat sinks capable of sinking 46 heat per turn. Mech B can put out 52 damage a turn optimally while generating 0 heat build up if /RUNNING/.

Looks like Mech B is clearly winning. 52 (Mech B.) Damage is > than 45 (Mech A) Damage, 5 (Mech A) Heat is > than 0 (Mech B.) Heat. So Mech A puts out less damage while gaining more heat than Mech B.

Except we're already in trouble because of one simple factor: Critical Slots. A mech only has 40 continuous crit slots that can handle double heat sinks for the IS. A rating 225 engine can only hold 9 Heat Sinks, so 13 additional Double Heat Sinks is thusly going to take up 42 crit slots, so they can't fit at all without removing the hand actuators. This leaves you limited space for weapons! 2 in the legs, 2 in the center torso, and 1 in the head. Well damn, now you can't fit your weapons you need all those heat sinks for!

This isn't even taking into account that Mech B has a mack range of 15 hexes (450 meters) as compared to Mech A's max range of what, 23 hexes for an ER PPC? That's 690 meters. So not only do all those hard points mean diddly squat the mech can't even be built. Once you start adding things like XL engines, Endo Steel, Ferro Fibrous, Anti Missile Systems, ECM Suites, and the rest it gets even worse as those all eat up critical spots even if they don't eat tonnage.

Any imagined Pay to Win for Hard Point layout is just that, imagined. All Hard Points do is give us the versatility to make a mech that suits our playstyle better.

Hard Points never = Pay to Win assuming that even /stock/ hard points can make full use of the weight provided.

I hope that this helps people see what we've been saying all along. Tonnage and Critical Spaces matter far more than anything else. It's why a 75 ton Marauder (Mech A, by the way) and crazy Mech B are still completely balanced.

Edited by Christopher Dayson, 24 May 2012 - 05:32 AM.

[Rejarial Galatan]

The only way a mech should be a 'premium mech' is IF, and ONLY if you are buying a unique skin and SKIN ONLY. chassis and weapons should be mech lab purchase ONLY. and a unique hard point layout for a mech that moves some of the Hard points around, COULD lead a real tactical advantage, like say swapping an energy hard point from the arm and a ballistic from the RT and swapping them, COULD allow for a larger energy weapon to be dumped into the mech. that can lead to P2W for the chance to have that larger energy weapon. so, i say, we leave the chassis's and weapons OUT of the premium category and leave it to fluff and vanity and speed xp boosts only.

[Krefey]

Hmm. Interesting. Being a big WoT player myself, I have no probelm with the concept of premium mechs at all. I actually like the WoT premium account system. Being able to spend in game premium currency to expand the mech garage so you can have more mechs etc works for me.

I concur with the people who have said that there shouldn't be any premium weapons that are better than the "normal" version. I don't particularly want to see the ability to have a normal PPC or say, if I spend premium cash being able to get an ER PPC. I would prefer if the the various mech weapons etc were available to all players rather than restrict a few to those who have the cash. This is coming from someone who is very likely to spend some cash on this game.

[Aelos03]

Krefey, on 24 May 2012 - 06:06 PM, said:

Hmm. Interesting. Being a big WoT player myself, I have no probelm with the concept of premium mechs at all. I actually like the WoT premium account system. Being able to spend in game premium currency to expand the mech garage so you can have more mechs etc works for me.

I concur with the people who have said that there shouldn't be any premium weapons that are better than the "normal" version. I don't particularly want to see the ability to have a normal PPC or say, if I spend premium cash being able to get an ER PPC. I would prefer if the the various mech weapons etc were available to all players rather than restrict a few to those who have the cash. This is coming from someone who is very likely to spend some cash on this game.

in my book premium means bad, i want to spend my money on skins, cockpits and stuff like that.
also coming from someone who will spend money but if i see some premium weapons and mechs i wont spend my money.

[Waladil]

Hmm...

Just a postulation: What if, instead of premium mechs per se, PG offered premium _missions_ that included the reward of a premium mech? So you pay ($x amount) and get a ticket to get into a special match, teamed with and against other people who also paid in. This match has a bit of storyline like "Raiding a Star League Depot" or "Clan Factory Smash and Grab" or something like that. The winners of that match get the premium rewards, such as mothballed Star League mechs, Clanner tech, and nonmilitary Lostech (That is sold for a lot of C-bills).

It's clearly not just pay-to-win, because it comes with a challenge. It's a very important fight on both sides, and you can be sure the other guys will want to win as much as you.

Hm... Slight variant: Make those tickets rarely drop normally as victory rewards, in addition to being able to buy them. Then, there are no "true" premium mechs or equipment, in that anybody who plays enough can get them, but people who are willing to pay get more chances to get the nice stuff. Also, make the tickets tradeable: If you get one you can just sell it rather than using it yourself, and it allows another way for non-payers to get the tickets. On the other hand, it makes it easy for people to turn real-world money into game money, by buying and scalping those tickets... which some people may or may not like.

It would help prevent spamming of certain mechs, because the loot would be random and you might not get the one you'd want. Or you might not get a mech at all.

The downside I could see is that the losers either gambled away a valuable drop or some real-world money. For one thing, the tickets would be cheaper than the suggested prices for a full 'mech: A couple dollars, perhaps. Also... what about giving everyone in the match a large bonus to XP gained, so even the losers walk away with something as a consolation prize for losing their shiny ticket.

[Forsaken X1]

Premium mechs.....the idea of premium ammo, weapons, or even a full mech with different hard points is quite honestly, not worth it. Just play and earn your way. Just spend your money if you wish on making your mech look pretty or something. What would be the point in paying to get some really nice mech or variant of a mech if you can't even really pilot it or your gonna complain about how it works later on?

Just enjoy the game for what it is and keep the store to just vanity items like so many have talked about before.