17 replies to this topic

[Kanatta Jing]

This is my current expectation for how the player base will become distilled and sifted.

Bottom Tier - Lone Wolves. They will operate entirely in PUG games. They won't usually be involved in teamwork. They will receive no special bonus's. As they play they accrue Loyalty Points for various factions, that they won't be able to use for anything but will add a growing reward toward joining a House.

Second Tier - House Warriors. They will operate entirely in PUG games. Teamwork will be limited to non-skype based commands and will have sloppy discipline. They will receive special bonus's for their factions success. They will have rewards for high levels of Loyalty Points.

Second and a Half Tier - Sad Unlanded Mercenary Corps. They will operate mostly in PUG games and the occasional serious match for Planetary Control (which they will always loose). Teamwork will be utilize skype and will have sloppy discipline. They will receive no special bonus for their Companies success (because they have none). They will have some kind of use for high levels of Loyalty Points.

Third Tier - Good Mercenary Corps. They will operate in PUG games mostly for fun and be entirely focused matches for Planetary Control. Teamwork will be utilize skype and will have strict discipline. They will receive special bonus's for their Companies success mostly in the form of fat loot and cash. They will have some kind of use for high levels of Loyalty Points.

[Cifu]

Problem 1.: The tier system is hard to maintain and cause many unfair thing, actually it's not better, than the "untiered" battle.
Problem 2.: There is no such option to the third question "no, i don't think the tier system is built-in the game" (so you need to check one of the tiers, even is you do not wan't and do not expect such things).

Edited by Cifu, 17 May 2012 - 10:45 PM.

[SuomiWarder]

You left out the possibility of a small group of lone wolves that drop together and use small scale teamwork to achieve more than the sum of their individual efforts.

But in general I don't expect your suggested tiers to be official, although something along these lines could evolve naturally. I plan to be in Tier Three as you describe them. (Those who fail to plan, plan to fail).

[Vulpesveritas]

My problem with that is that you're not taking into account house-loyal groups (canon and otherwise), such as my Silent Foxes. While we are operating as a house, we use skype or TS3, practice in MW4 to work as a team, and coordinate tactics and customization. Given the ability to drop a group together with friends according to the devs, a lance of us should be able drop together in any match. We're an exception to the rule on houses I'd say.

[Christopher Dayson]

There's also a very large probability there will be in game voice capability. It's gotten pretty reliable these days.

I expect serious House players to group up. Just because people are Lone Wolves or House doesn't mean they'll automatically suck. Just like people in mercenary groups aren't automatically going to be better and dominate.

Personally I look forwards to acquiring House rank and knowing I've /earned/ something cool.

Also your third poll question? Not good, since we have to answer all your poll questions we can't go no, no, and then not answer the third as it has no bearing.

[Ramien]

I think the 'tiers' are going to be mostly unrelated to the affiliation of the players, since there are going to be different reasons for people to join Houses or Merc Groups. The devs have said that there will be ways for friends to drop together, so saying one group will be more PUG than the others is a bit of a stretch.

[pursang]

And why exactly would Piranha want to punish solo players, a.k.a lone wolves, a.k.a the vast majority of new players? I refuse to vote in this poll.

Edited by pursang, 18 May 2012 - 12:41 AM.

[Kanatta Jing]

I think Lone Wolves are going to be encouraged to join Houses and once they are in Houses they are going to be encouraged to socialize. Thus leading to them and their new friends to leave the House and found a Mercenary Company that is closely related to the House but more independent.

Baiting and rewarding players for engaging in friendly interaction with each other has been an evil time honoured tradition and strategy for MMOs.

On every road in this game there will be a trap specially designed to make you be friendly with another player. It's going to happen.

In defense of the third option. Even if you don't expect it or want it, it could happen.

[Kezran Vrass]

well that god awful as i expect thier will be house units

[Maffa]

Kanatta Jing, on 18 May 2012 - 01:17 AM, said:

I think Lone Wolves are going to be encouraged to join Houses and once they are in Houses they are going to be encouraged to socialize. Thus leading to them and their new friends to leave the House and found a Mercenary Company that is closely related to the House but more independent.

Baiting and rewarding players for engaging in friendly interaction with each other has been an evil time honoured tradition and strategy for MMOs.

On every road in this game there will be a trap specially designed to make you be friendly with another player. It's going to happen.

In defense of the third option. Even if you don't expect it or want it, it could happen.

i hope not!! this is the reason i totally dropped WoW. I wasted too much time outside an instance waiting for someone random to party with, and i didnt wanted to forcefully enter a clan in order to play.

I just hope they would think about an America's Army platoon system, with fixed roles to cover, like a coherent lance structure to place yourself into.

Edited by Maffa, 18 May 2012 - 02:08 AM.

[Redshift2k5]

The only separation of players should be
1) player level/skill
2) group size

There is a bit of fuzzyiness between medium groups and complete 12-man groups, and really this is a gradient of separation and not a strict divide. Matches should be sorted out by player skill(level, win:loss, kill:death, elo) with a strong bias towards putting similar-sized groups on either team (with singles or small groups filling in)

People who choose to focus their gameplay in 12-man teams will mostly be separated from the PUGs and greenhorns by virtue of level separation and group-size bias, but many medium-sized merc corp are going to find themselves with only 10 or 11 players sometimes and will rely on a level-appropriate pug to fill in! Even a large merc group isn't always going to have even 12/24/36 players on and will need pugs and unrelated small groups to fill in.

Even if 9 times out of 10 you play in your merc corp 12-man, you'll find yourself wanting to solo queue at least some of the time!

Edited by Redshift2k5, 18 May 2012 - 05:48 AM.

[Alfred VonGunn]

Why would House Warriors be any less good at their job then your Landed Mercs? I fully expect House Uunits to be very good.. Just like some of teh Mercs will be..

[Beazle]

I love how people always think that merc=elite for some reason.

I'd bet my middle nut that your gonna see some hardcore house units that smash the heck out of a lot of prepubescent zomgiwannabeamerc units.

[Christopher Dayson]

Beazle, on 20 May 2012 - 09:31 PM, said:

I love how people always think that merc=elite for some reason.

I'd bet my middle nut that your gonna see some hardcore house units that smash the heck out of a lot of prepubescent zomgiwannabeamerc units.

People automatically assume that cuz they have external website, forums, or outside of game Ventrilo/TS/Mumble or whatever that they will reign supreme. Personally I am looking forwards to putting together a cadre of Lyrans to play with and get used to working together. Should be awesome. Be good for rivalries to with people in other Houses.

[Akrasjel Lanate]

Also not everyone uses skype

[Infine]

Kanatta Jing, on 18 May 2012 - 01:17 AM, said:

Baiting and rewarding players for engaging in friendly interaction with each other has been an evil time honoured tradition and strategy for MMOs.

On every road in this game there will be a trap specially designed to make you be friendly with another player. It's going to happen.

[rant]
I very much hope they DO NOT. It is the very reason I DO NOT GOD DAMMIT PLAY typical MMOs. I hate socializing. I hate voicecomms (if I have to talk - I'm fine with listening). And I very much hope that you won't be required to run in some stupid party to at least have a chance of having something remotely resembling fun.

That does not make me a bad teamplayer or something. I just think that good teamplay is when you don't have to explain your teammate how to shoot a laser or how to flank an enemy. Oh, and a good teampllay is when your teammate is not BRBAFKSMOKING every 5 damn minutes. Sorry, my head hurts each time I try to imagine a premade party. I believe that sentient human beings, given enough situation awareness and understanding of game mechanics, are able to work in a team without extensive voice communication (or without voice communication at all). I just find it that most human beings are, in fact, not sentient, and this sad fact has nothing to do with said human beings not belonging to an established unit. It's just top units do not generally accept hоmо amoebus in their ranks, and when good units do, extensive screaming, swearing and name calling can, in some instances, substitute the lacking brain activity and possibly develop some conditioned reflexes.
[/rant]

Ok, seriously. First, Lone Wolfs can have their reasons. Some of them may be good players, or even, by some miracle, good teamplayers. But they may not have time/passion/predictable shedule to operate in organized structures.

Second, House Units are not automatically worse than Merc Corps. Though, as far as I understand, you won't be able to form a unit inside a house structure, which, IMO, is sort of bad. Sure, it keeps things more or less canon, but the price is too high - there are too many house-fans willing to cooperate with each other, and they are denied the right to do so while being integrated into the house military structure. Currently, the only workaround I see is forming a lapdog mercenary corp ELH-style. Which still is just a poor workaround since you don't get official house ranks and other roleplay stuff.

Third. There's a matter of commitment and personal goals. A "good" unit (as in, successfull in Planetary Control mode) does not necessary consist of "good" (as in, individually skilled) players. Case in point: for some time I was in a clan on the WoT EU server. It wasn't a top clan, some players were individually outright bad, but over time we could manage to become regulars in the landing finals (with some instances of outright winning the landings). Which, technically, placed us in the league of "good" clans (as in, not TOP clans who hold the map, but among those who had at least an ability to challenge them). Yet some regular players still remained not that good (as in, you could easily find beter untagged players in randoms). What mattered was the teamplay. So a member of a "good" unit might very well be not the best PUG player if he drops alone. Or, as one might turn it, there are many really good PUG players that are just not represented in competitive game modes for different reasons.

So, in short, my opinion is, for PUGs such a rating does not make sense. Because PUGs and competitive play are different. There are people who play PUGs not because they are bad players, but because they find PUGs more suited for them.

PS: the swear filter filters the word hоmо.

Edited by Infine, 21 May 2012 - 01:38 AM.

[FrostPaw]

I'll be in the tier having fun and not looking down on anyone.

[Shredhead]

First of all, why this elitism? Why should a lonewolf not be able to excel in teamwork? This poll is nonsense. As the devs have mentioned several times, they are looking into a system of tonnage, experience and battlevalue, I expect this to become the "tier" system (as in [Your Pilot EXP] + [Tonnage of your Mech] + [BV of your Mech and Modules] = "Tier").
In this case your level changes due to the used mech and loaded modules, with your experience level as a constant and minimum.