119 replies to this topic

[Willie Sauerland]

Lefty Lucy, on 24 December 2012 - 02:54 PM, said:

You are making literally zero sense. Something cannot be "cheese-build ROFLstomping" and "easy to counter" at the same time.

Given as much whining on this forum as there has been, you really want to try and run this argument? Just because I can come up with a strategy does not mean everybody else can. So yes, easy to counter if you know how to do it, otherwise, it is unstoppable.

I hope that clarifies it for you.

Quote

If a competitive mech is driven by a weak pilot, it's the pilot that loses that match. If a competitive mech is driven by a competent pilot... well you're putting yourself at a strict disadvantage in that match up.

Isn't that what most people are wanting though - to test their skills against another pilot with skills? How more competitive can it really get? I would suggest a pilot who knows how to run a Centurion and a pilot who knows how to run a Hunchback (what is often considered a "competitive build") will have a difficult time killing each other and one will only win after being severely damaged (read: almost killed himself).

I disagree any one mech is more disadvantaged over the other within a particular weight class. Naturally, if I'm trying to take on an Atlas with a Cicada, then I should expect to be disadvantaged, especially if the Atlas pilot has any skill at all. However, within the same weight class, it is a question of pilot ability to manage both heat and movement while firing. If the pilot cannot manage one of the two, then they will lose, no matter how "competitive" the build....

[HurlockHolmes]

Lefty Lucy, on 24 December 2012 - 02:26 PM, said:

A centurion is worse than a hunchback.

The CN9-AL and the HBK-4SP are pretty much the same mech, save for one extra energy slot on the head of the 4SP.

Also the shoulders of the 4SP are still huge, at least the Cent can hide his missles packs with his shield arm.

My AL runs with 4 ml's and 2 srm6's with a std 250 ,endo and dhs. Never overheat unless I am alphaing like a madman, which is bad practice anyway. I go 91.2 kph with speedtweak.

Though I do think any ballistic based 'mech that is less than a heavy is terrible. (I am looking at you Cicada, you know what you did.)

[Lefty Lucy]

HurlockHolmes, on 24 December 2012 - 03:21 PM, said:

The CN9-AL and the HBK-4SP are pretty much the same mech, save for one extra energy slot on the head of the 4SP.

Also the shoulders of the 4SP are still huge, at least the Cent can hide his missles packs with his shield arm.

My AL runs with 4 ml's and 2 srm6's with a std 250 ,endo and dhs. Never overheat unless I am alphaing like a madman, which is bad practice anyway. I go 91.2 kph with speedtweak.

Though I do think any ballistic based 'mech that is less than a heavy is terrible. (I am looking at you Cicada, you know what you did.)

The 4SP has all lasers in arms, so they're all on the same reticle. It has a wider torso twist, better torso elevation, and is not as frikkin' huge.

On top of that it has an extra hard point.

How is the 4SP not flat-out better than the CN9-AL?

[Willie Sauerland]

HurlockHolmes, on 24 December 2012 - 03:21 PM, said:

The CN9-AL and the HBK-4SP are pretty much the same mech, save for one extra energy slot on the head of the 4SP.

Also the shoulders of the 4SP are still huge, at least the Cent can hide his missles packs with his shield arm.

My AL runs with 4 ml's and 2 srm6's with a std 250 ,endo and dhs. Never overheat unless I am alphaing like a madman, which is bad practice anyway. I go 91.2 kph with speedtweak.

Though I do think any ballistic based 'mech that is less than a heavy is terrible. (I am looking at you Cicada, you know what you did.)

LOL - I had a Cicada with a Gauss Rifle and an ERPPC in CB. You would be surprised how many Assaults I cored while they were trying to type into chat, "How did you get those into that little thing!"

Granted, it couldn't hit a light to save its life (stupid lag shield), but it was definitely worth the LOLzzzz....

[HurlockHolmes]

Lefty Lucy, on 24 December 2012 - 03:25 PM, said:

The 4SP has all lasers in arms, so they're all on the same reticle. It has a wider torso twist, better torso elevation, and is not as frikkin' huge.

On top of that it has an extra hard point.

How is the 4SP not flat-out better than the CN9-AL?

Well considering I can wail on the side torsos of a hunchback, even when it isn't facing me is a pretty big downside.

While a -good- cent will force you to chew through his arms before you get to the good stuff.

I get a huge grin on my face everytime somebody tries to focus on my "gun arm".

Edit: And yes, the cent is to big for its weight class.

Edited by HurlockHolmes, 24 December 2012 - 03:36 PM.

[Willie Sauerland]

Lefty Lucy, on 24 December 2012 - 03:25 PM, said:

The 4SP has all lasers in arms, so they're all on the same reticle. It has a wider torso twist, better torso elevation, and is not as frikkin' huge.

On top of that it has an extra hard point.

How is the 4SP not flat-out better than the CN9-AL?

CN9-AL is faster as well depending on how you build it. I wouldn't call either one of them better. I would call them close to equal. 1v1 with skilled pilots, either could win. To me, that seems balanced.

Of course, we may just have to agree to disagree on this one. Not every mech is playable effectively by every person. Like I said, I can't pilot a Dragon to save my life, yet I see people piloting them very effectively.

However, to say mech X is bad, not competitive, or just flat out sucks because they are not effective with it is flat out opinion and not fact. I know you have piloted Centurions so I'm not trying to slam you personally or doubt your abilities. However, I also know I have done things in Mechs others simply can't pilot like others have done in Dragons to me.

I am of the opinion, if and when the netcode ever gets straightened out, the mech type will matter even less and this game will truly become one based on skill and ability. Of course, I also know the track record of PGIGP. My crystal ball isn't that good of late but I still have high hopes for this game.

Edited by Willie Sauerland, 24 December 2012 - 03:35 PM.

[One Medic Army]

Willie Sauerland, on 24 December 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:

CN9-AL is faster as well depending on how you build it. I wouldn't call either one of them better. I would call them close to equal. 1v1 with skilled pilots, either could win. To me, that seems balanced.

Just saying: this is flat out false.
Centurions (Yen-Lo and 9D aside) have the same engine caps as hunchbacks.
With the same gear in a Cent-AL as a Hunch-SP they will go the same speed.

[superteds]

urghghghgh i've already pointed out how some mechs are just WORSE than others.

look at the stalker line up. look at the cicada line up. look at the raven line up.

YES a good pilot will be fine in any of them, but a good pilot would be even BETTER in the better mechs.

[DivineEvil]

There's no inferior mechs generally, all of them have pro and cons and you efficiency doesn't affected that much by a mech you run. It's just like whether you're better than your weight-class matched opponent or not.

Failure variants on the other hand, are here and that makes people to pick them over the others. Hell, I have that 4x Ballistic Cicada, and the only way you can build her is with 4x MGs, nothing else works. Nothing. And with that aaawwwwsome setup, I've spent 1,5 minutes standing while firing at the AFK Stalker with those MGs... 4 tons of weapons and ammo, 100 seconds of endless firing, broken leg and damaged an arm. Hilarious DPS for a weight analogue of Small Laser, that would deal 5 times more damage in the same time with no limited ammunition and heat buildup of a TV's remote, with no velocity or spread, not speaking about the LL I've taken with me, which makes for 99% damage dealt on that nailbucket variant. Which concludes, that this variant is naturally useless from the start.

[HurlockHolmes]

Willie Sauerland, on 24 December 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:

CN9-AL is faster as well depending on how you build it. I wouldn't call either one of them better. I would call them close to equal. 1v1 with skilled pilots, either could win. To me, that seems balanced.

My AL and 4SP have the same exact loadouts and skills, they are the same in every aspect.

[TexAce]

Given how bad machine guns are I would definately say the 4x ballistic cicada.

Im most succesful in my AWS-8R with up to 5 kills per match.

Edited by TexAss, 24 December 2012 - 03:52 PM.

[Willie Sauerland]

One Medic Army, on 24 December 2012 - 03:38 PM, said:

Just saying: this is flat out false.
Centurions (Yen-Lo and 9D aside) have the same engine caps as hunchbacks.
With the same gear in a Cent-AL as a Hunch-SP they will go the same speed.

HurlockHolmes, on 24 December 2012 - 03:47 PM, said:

My AL and 4SP have the same exact loadouts and skills, they are the same in every aspect.

Appears both of you missed what I wrote so I shall write it again for your benefit (emphasis mine):

CN9-AL is faster as well depending on how you build it.

Yes, if I make it faster, it certainly won't have the same loadout as a 4SP. But then again, it has its own advantages and disadvantages.

Never-the-less, it doesn't matter. There are those who will believe that their mechs are simply the best and all others are inferior. I guess I'll just have to enjoy seeing you in-game.

[Name140704]

Yen Lo Wang sucks pretty bad.

[One Medic Army]

My point was that any build you can do on a Cent-AL you can do on a Hunch-SP.
They will have exactly the same speed, since they have the same engine cap.

What you said is equivalent to saying that an Atlas is faster than a Jenner depending on how you build it. I.E. it's a meaningless statement.

[Lefty Lucy]

Willie Sauerland, on 24 December 2012 - 03:53 PM, said:

Appears both of you missed what I wrote so I shall write it again for your benefit (emphasis mine):

CN9-AL is faster as well depending on how you build it.

Yes, if I make it faster, it certainly won't have the same loadout as a 4SP. But then again, it has its own advantages and disadvantages.

But they have exactly the same speed cap and the same speed for any given engine rating.

[Willie Sauerland]

One Medic Army, on 24 December 2012 - 03:56 PM, said:

My point was that any build you can do on a Cent-AL you can do on a Hunch-SP.
They will have exactly the same speed, since they have the same engine cap.

What you said is equivalent to saying that an Atlas is faster than a Jenner depending on how you build it. I.E. it's a meaningless statement.

Lefty Lucy, on 24 December 2012 - 04:01 PM, said:

But they have exactly the same speed cap and the same speed for any given engine rating.

Both of you are correct. I went and reread the specs and realized my mistake. I must have looked in the wrong column.

My apologies to the three of you (somebody else mentioned it too but I'm too lazy to go looking for the post. )

[TANTE EMMA]

Willie Sauerland, on 24 December 2012 - 03:53 PM, said:

I guess I'll just have to enjoy seeing you in-game.

...but we saw you in-game your mech popped faster than we could say "P-O-P" and then there was a disconnect, well I am sure you had a CTD after you just vaporized...

[One Medic Army]

No worries, just never know how far a piece of incorrect info will travel across the internet. Best to correct things early.

I agree that any mech can be made good, and I definitely agree that the centurion has advantages over the hunchback (shield arm, better zombie mech) but they tend to be overshadowed by the large profile in my experience. I do run a 9D for the pure speed though.

My biggest personal issues are with the Dragon, since it's too fast and light to make much use of that ballistic arm that has up to 3! hardpoints. If they ever fix machine guns to be what they ought to be (the ballistic equivalent of the small laser) and arm convergence then I will gladly go running around in my non-flame Dragons again.
Until then, I'll take a 10ton heavier Cataphract any day of the week.

[Willie Sauerland]

Noakei Siegel, on 24 December 2012 - 04:06 PM, said:

...but we saw you in-game your mech popped faster than we could say "P-O-P" and then there was a disconnect, well I am sure you had a CTD after you just vaporized...

Ah yes, I remember your name. Unfortunately, I had one of those amazing 4fps games. I disconnected and reloaded my client immediately. I was running a Cataphract though (4X) I believe. I am not any more immune to the bugs of this game than any others. However, I do not discredit your win. I'm sure it was well fought and well won as was I assume your victory. I do hope I will be a better challenge in our next meeting.

Edited by Willie Sauerland, 24 December 2012 - 04:19 PM.

[GroovYChickeN]

Commandos are great mechs. People who say they suck just don't understand how to use one. A 3A with 2ssmrs and 2mpl's + BAP and a XL195 and you will be a great striker/scout. Yeah you die easy but you are in a 25 ton mech. If you want to be able to take a lot of fire and live to tell about it, get an assault.

Edited by GroovYChickeN, 24 December 2012 - 04:30 PM.