119 replies to this topic

[FromHell2k]

QuantumButler, on 24 December 2012 - 01:25 PM, said:

The worst mech is anything mounting machineguns or flamers.

CTF-X4 with 4MG's, AMS, Flamer and LRM5 x)
HBK-4P with 9 Flamers x)

Pretty funny to play x)

[Krondor]

The only Dragon i'd say is bad is the 5N. All the other variants are fine. What the Dragon is, is hard to outfit and pilot well. Errors in piloting and a lack of situational awareness will kill you REALLY fast in that mech, moreso than many others. Many people also overlook the strengths of the Dragon and only focus on its weaknesses.

Most people I see do poorly in a dragon are ones who try and outfit it as a brawler. It isn't, and shouldn't be used as one.

[Willie Sauerland]

FromHell2k, on 24 December 2012 - 04:30 PM, said:

CTF-X4 with 4MG's, AMS, Flamer and LRM5 x)
HBK-4P with 9 Flamers x)

Pretty funny to play x)

Yes, but the mechs themselves aren't bad - only the builds created by those customizing them. I have had some pretty costly experiments...

[QuantumButler]

The only proper hunchback 4P build is 6 large lasers.

[Cerlin]

Id say what makes dragons and centurions "Bad" to a lot of people is managing the 3 types of weapon systems. People seem to not like to practice this and then totally forget that they have missiles/ballistic/lasers at the same time. I was really bad at my centurions until i got good at this, now I love my centurions and dragons are awesome. They arent the same as my catapults or cataphrachs but they have theirs uses as heavy cavalry. I beat other heavies all the time in my dragon, and mediums in my centurions. Part of it is that people ignore you because they think you suck, its not bad.

[QuantumButler]

Cerlin, on 24 December 2012 - 04:43 PM, said:

Id say what makes dragons and centurions "Bad" to a lot of people is managing the 3 types of weapon systems. People seem to not like to practice this and then totally forget that they have missiles/ballistic/lasers at the same time. I was really bad at my centurions until i got good at this, now I love my centurions and dragons are awesome. They arent the same as my catapults or cataphrachs but they have theirs uses as heavy cavalry. I beat other heavies all the time in my dragon, and mediums in my centurions. Part of it is that people ignore you because they think you suck, its not bad.

No, the reason a dragon is "bad" is because it's 5 - 10 tons lighter than the other heavy mechs, has far worse hardpoints as well as a super easy to hit CT and low armor cap compared to the Catapult.

Edited by QuantumButler, 24 December 2012 - 04:45 PM.

[Agent 0range]

Like most have said "There are bad variants not bad mechs." The only reason lighter mechs in each class are worse is because of how matches are made at the moment. being in an awesome and knowing you are probably matched against a Stalker or Atlas is tough as they have a lot of advantages due to all of the extra tons of armor and weapons, Though I play my Awesome as a support/sniper and do fine in it most matches(yes the Q one with 2 PPC and some pulse lasers)

[QuantumButler]

Agent 0range, on 24 December 2012 - 04:46 PM, said:

Like most have said "There are bad variants not bad mechs." The only reason lighter mechs in each class are worse is because of how matches are made at the moment. being in an awesome and knowing you are probably matched against a Stalker or Atlas is tough as they have a lot of advantages due to all of the extra tons of armor and weapons, Though I play my Awesome as a support/sniper and do fine in it most matches(yes the Q one with 2 PPC and some pulse lasers)

They don't seem inclined to ever fix how the MM works, so the lighter mechs will always be inferior unless they have something really special.

[Lefty Lucy]

QuantumButler, on 24 December 2012 - 04:47 PM, said:

They don't seem inclined to ever fix how the MM works, so the lighter mechs will always be inferior unless they have something really special.

Yep, like the stalker has a place because of obscene number of hard points, versus the Atlas that has more tonnage at disposal and more armor. The AWS just doesn't do anything special to warrant the lack of speed/armor/payload.

[One Medic Army]

QuantumButler, on 24 December 2012 - 04:47 PM, said:

They don't seem inclined to ever fix how the MM works, so the lighter mechs will always be inferior unless they have something really special.

One of the Devs posted that ideally Matchmaker Phase3 will include an "asset value" for the piloted mech as one of the balancing factors (alongside ELO skill rating and grouped or not).
Hopefully this will encourage the use of lighter mechs, since I really do like Dragons.

[QuantumButler]

One Medic Army, on 24 December 2012 - 04:49 PM, said:

One of the Devs posted that ideally Matchmaker Phase3 will include an "asset value" for the piloted mech as one of the balancing factors (alongside ELO skill rating and grouped or not).
Hopefully this will encourage the use of lighter mechs, since I really do like Dragons.

I'm still not convince the whole ELO thing is going to work for this game's small playerbase but we'll see.

[superteds]

I really like the *idea* of dragons (heavy cav or whatever), but in practice you're just gifting the other team an SRM6 A1 or a cataphract.

[QuantumButler]

superteds, on 24 December 2012 - 04:53 PM, said:

I really like the *idea* of dragons (heavy cav or whatever), but in practice you're just gifting the other team an SRM6 A1 or a cataphract.

Or, a few months down the road, an Orion.

[Willie Sauerland]

Lefty Lucy, on 24 December 2012 - 04:49 PM, said:

Yep, like the stalker has a place because of obscene number of hard points, versus the Atlas that has more tonnage at disposal and more armor. The AWS just doesn't do anything special to warrant the lack of speed/armor/payload.

Are you trying to brawl with it or use it for its intended role of fire support? To use a mech effectively, one must know its intended role and play within that role.

I always LOL when I see somebody trying to brawl in an Awesome and then have them complain about why it dies so quickly given it is an assault. The horror!

[superteds]

QuantumButler, on 24 December 2012 - 04:54 PM, said:

Or, a few months down the road, an Orion.

mmmmmmmmmm orions

[Lefty Lucy]

Willie Sauerland, on 24 December 2012 - 04:56 PM, said:

Are you trying to brawl with it or use it for its intended role of fire support? To use a mech effectively, one must know its intended role and play within that role.

I always LOL when I see somebody trying to brawl in an Awesome and then have them complain about why it dies so quickly given it is an assault. The horror!

How is a fire support awesome better than a fire support stalker that has better hit boxes, higher armor capacity, and better hard points?

[QuantumButler]

Willie Sauerland, on 24 December 2012 - 04:56 PM, said:

Are you trying to brawl with it or use it for its intended role of fire support? To use a mech effectively, one must know its intended role and play within that role.

I always LOL when I see somebody trying to brawl in an Awesome and then have them complain about why it dies so quickly given it is an assault. The horror!

Too bad the AWS is far worse at fire support than the Stalker is.

The Stalker is better at using PPCs too, 2 ppcs in the arms and it can poptart over cover, shoot, and pull back before getting shot in return.

So again, the AWS is inferior in every way except maybe the 9M because it can actually go semi-fast.

[One Medic Army]

QuantumButler, on 24 December 2012 - 04:54 PM, said:

Or, a few months down the road, an Orion.

I want one!
75ton mini-Atlas with no useless space-taking hand actuators!

Willie Sauerland, on 24 December 2012 - 04:56 PM, said:

Are you trying to brawl with it or use it for its intended role of fire support? To use a mech effectively, one must know its intended role and play within that role.

I always LOL when I see somebody trying to brawl in an Awesome and then have them complain about why it dies so quickly given it is an assault. The horror!

The funny thing here is that the Awesome is arguably a better brawling mech than a Stalker. More torso twist and it has arms.
The Stalker is a better sniping mech due to great hardpoint locations for PPC sniping and a better frontal profile.

So in conclusion, the art for a mech doesn't necessarily match it's intended purpose.

Edited by One Medic Army, 24 December 2012 - 05:00 PM.

[Cerlin]

Quantum while you have a good point on weight on the Dragon (only 5 tons) the Centurion is the same weight as the Hunchback. Also with the dragon it is substantially faster than the catapult.

I will fully support that the Catapult is a more optimal mech however, easier to pilot and have a unified philosophy. Does that make it better? I have 3 variants of each too.

[Willie Sauerland]

Lefty Lucy, on 24 December 2012 - 04:58 PM, said:

How is a fire support awesome better than a fire support stalker that has better hit boxes, higher armor capacity, and better hard points?

QuantumButler, on 24 December 2012 - 04:58 PM, said:

Too bad the AWS is far worse at fire support than the Stalker is.

The Stalker is better at using PPCs too, 2 ppcs in the arms and it can poptart over cover, shoot, and pull back before getting shot in return.

So again, the AWS is inferior in every way except maybe the 9M because it can actually go semi-fast.

Yes, yes. The stalker is better in terms of hard points (and DHS implementation has crippled the Awesome significantly also), however, the point was about using the mech in its designed role and not in the role most people want to play which is brawler...