Jump to content

Invert Backward Movement


43 replies to this topic

#21 ThatBum42

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Philanthropist
  • 220 posts

Posted 22 April 2014 - 03:06 AM

Strange, it hadn't even occurred to me that this was a problem until I discovered this thread. I would have thought that car-style reverse steering would be backwards. To me, the current behavior just feels natural.

If it helps, think about this: the car steering is actually the one that is inverted. When a car is moving in reverse, the angle of the front wheels is inverted relative to forward motion. For tanks (and mechs apparently), they do not have such an inversion, presumably because steering a tank is accomplished by making a speed differential between the tracks, and that remains constant in either direction. Perhaps mechs have a similar system, such as using their gyro to lean while turning?

Also that illustration of MadogPL's bears a striking resemblance to the graph of a tangent function:
Posted Image
Any mathletes care to correlate?

Edited by ThatBum42, 22 April 2014 - 03:12 AM.


#22 CCC Dober

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,881 posts

Posted 22 April 2014 - 03:39 AM

I agree with OP here. It's more intuitive to stay on the same key to turn in both forwards and reverse motion. This should definitely be the standard to ease in the new guys.

Edited by CCC Dober, 22 April 2014 - 03:47 AM.


#23 Saimud

    Rookie

  • 3 posts

Posted 23 April 2014 - 01:18 AM

So, is there a way to communicate it to the delevopers, to make them realise there is a request from the playerbase about and important point for the control settings? I am rather new in the MWO-Forums and not sure about the procedures for suggestions to the developers. Any help would be appreciated.

#24 Kyynele

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Vicious
  • The Vicious
  • 973 posts

Posted 23 April 2014 - 01:30 AM

The last thing this game needs is another default option that teaches new players to play badly. This would be another step of making the game play like any generic shooter.

What is unintuitive in pressing left to turn left? I think you just need to try a bit harder.

Sorry, but this thread is the first time I actually hoped to just have a dislike-button so I wouldn't have to waste time typing a real answer to this nonsense. However, I felt it had to be made so you don't think that the idea is even remotely supported by the actual playerbase. Have a good day, sirs.

#25 Navid A1

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • CS 2022 Gold Champ
  • CS 2022 Gold Champ
  • 4,931 posts
  • LocationVancouver, BC

Posted 23 April 2014 - 01:40 AM

I kinda disagree with the OP...
turning while moving in reverse is ok as it is now

even if it is added like an option, most of the new players wont know about it.

No thanks... new players not knowing about arm-lock is quite enough for now.

#26 CCC Dober

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,881 posts

Posted 23 April 2014 - 02:29 AM

Of course you can disagree, but given our daily references i.e. cars, bikes, you would not suddenly turn the steering wheel in the other direction to go backwards the same way you just came from. That simply doesn't make sense and this is why it's not very intuitive and why OP is right on the money. Simplicity of steering a Mech does not mean that steering a Mech becomes simple and removes challenge. The inversed reverse steering as we have right now is simply a nuisance and serves no other purpose than to introduce complexity where none is needed or even warranted. This is not even a point that is worthy of discussion, simply because OP asked for an option to rectify an input problem.

#27 IraqiWalker

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • 9,682 posts
  • LocationCalifornia

Posted 23 April 2014 - 02:36 AM

Honestly, for me it's a part of the game and the simulation, much lilke how moving the mouse moves the cursors, so do the legs work that way.

I can understand people wanting to do it differently, but think of it as one more skill you need to learn to play the game.

#28 Saimud

    Rookie

  • 3 posts

Posted 23 April 2014 - 02:51 AM

I think you guys who are against giving other players the option to adapt their backward movement controls are missing one important point: It is irrelevant if backward inverse movement is logical or not, or realistic or not. The point is that you are effectively reducing the chance that other players from popular online MOBA's like WoT change and come to join MWO. For example, I am an active WoT player in the upper skill ranks, and I am used to its backward inverse control (btw. you have an option there to use it or not). "Trying harder" to learn a different control will put me into conflict with my trained skills in WoT, so if I do not get the chance to adapt the controls here to what is common sense in other games and which suits me best, I prefer to stay out, like many others with the same problem.

#29 IraqiWalker

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • 9,682 posts
  • LocationCalifornia

Posted 23 April 2014 - 03:08 AM

View PostSaimud, on 23 April 2014 - 02:51 AM, said:

I think you guys who are against giving other players the option to adapt their backward movement controls are missing one important point: It is irrelevant if backward inverse movement is logical or not, or realistic or not. The point is that you are effectively reducing the chance that other players from popular online MOBA's like WoT change and come to join MWO. For example, I am an active WoT player in the upper skill ranks, and I am used to its backward inverse control (btw. you have an option there to use it or not). "Trying harder" to learn a different control will put me into conflict with my trained skills in WoT, so if I do not get the chance to adapt the controls here to what is common sense in other games and which suits me best, I prefer to stay out, like many others with the same problem.


I do personally understand what you are saying, and I agree with it. Sorry if that wasn't clear in my post.

#30 Donas

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Survivor
  • Survivor
  • 416 posts
  • Locationon yet another world looking for a Bar and Grill

Posted 24 April 2014 - 04:38 AM

Strangely enough, the main thing I've picked up from this threaqd is that I can turn the proposed input mode off in WoT so it becomes playable. lol

When the reasoning behind the input change is that its not like a car or intuitive, it bears noting that you're driving a bipedal vehicle. There's no mech/tank/car/tugboat abstractness required. There's a far more intuitive model to use, and that would be humans. A and D are pivots. You're aiming your belt buckle and walking forward and backward. Can't get much more intuitive than that. It just takes a little practice.

And while I've always been supportive of optional input methods to increase the playerbase, this one has taken since December of 2012 to rack up only 2 pages of responses, half of which have been opposed. Thats an extraordinary tiny blip on the 'Community outcry' radar. So I wouldnt be holding your breath. Just going to have to adapt to the genre, or stick with WoT.

Variety is good.

#31 Madner Kami

    Rookie

  • Knight Errant
  • Knight Errant
  • 5 posts

Posted 26 July 2014 - 04:28 PM

View PostDonas, on 24 April 2014 - 04:38 AM, said:

Strangely enough, the main thing I've picked up from this threaqd is that I can turn the proposed input mode off in WoT so it becomes playable. lol

When the reasoning behind the input change is that its not like a car or intuitive, it bears noting that you're driving a bipedal vehicle. There's no mech/tank/car/tugboat abstractness required. There's a far more intuitive model to use, and that would be humans. A and D are pivots. You're aiming your belt buckle and walking forward and backward. Can't get much more intuitive than that. It just takes a little practice.

And while I've always been supportive of optional input methods to increase the playerbase, this one has taken since December of 2012 to rack up only 2 pages of responses, half of which have been opposed. Thats an extraordinary tiny blip on the 'Community outcry' radar. So I wouldnt be holding your breath. Just going to have to adapt to the genre, or stick with WoT.

Variety is good.


The opposing people have no reason to oppose an *option* to invert reverse leg rotation. Whatever you or they feel natural or intuitive, is absolutely unintuitive and unnatural for others. For me, for example, it's a complete turn-off and I can not get into the mindset you need for this movement behaviour. And in Re: Human Movement. I don't suddenly have to think reverse right, when I want to reverse left, after moving forward left. I just do it. I don't push buttons to move my arse, but I do push buttons when moving the mech and having to swift-switch between left and right because I try to keep a circling light in my reticle is annoying as **** to me. As said: complete turn-off to me, as it's unpayable to me.

#32 SethAbercromby

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Urban Commando
  • Urban Commando
  • 1,308 posts
  • LocationNRW, Germany

Posted 26 July 2014 - 05:12 PM

When thinking of your 'Mech as a semi-humanoid, and given the impairments in overall vision and torso twist coverage, consistently having left=left is very intuitive. it took me a while to even notice it being there, though I did get caught up in attempting to use car-esque controls, but it took someone to point out what's happening. I really just assumed I just hit the wrong key due to panic.

Now that I'm conciously aware of it, I only ever hit the wrong key when I'm actually panicking and lose all sense of direction. I reccomend you to just stick with it. Anything that you don't have to think about is one thing less to worry about in the midst of battle.

#33 Donas

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Survivor
  • Survivor
  • 416 posts
  • Locationon yet another world looking for a Bar and Grill

Posted 26 July 2014 - 08:25 PM

View PostMadner Kami, on 26 July 2014 - 04:28 PM, said:


The opposing people have no reason to oppose an *option* to invert reverse leg rotation.


Sure they do. one half of 1 and a half pages of responses over 18 months does not equal something that the Devs really need to be devoting time on that they could be spending on things that the community at large actually are interested in.

Sorry man. I don't oppose the input method. just the allocation of resources for such a tiny base of interest in the face of other things being implemented.

#34 IraqiWalker

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • 9,682 posts
  • LocationCalifornia

Posted 27 July 2014 - 12:00 AM

View PostMadner Kami, on 26 July 2014 - 04:28 PM, said:


The opposing people have no reason to oppose an *option* to invert reverse leg rotation. Whatever you or they feel natural or intuitive, is absolutely unintuitive and unnatural for others. For me, for example, it's a complete turn-off and I can not get into the mindset you need for this movement behaviour. And in Re: Human Movement. I don't suddenly have to think reverse right, when I want to reverse left, after moving forward left. I just do it. I don't push buttons to move my arse, but I do push buttons when moving the mech and having to swift-switch between left and right because I try to keep a circling light in my reticle is annoying as **** to me. As said: complete turn-off to me, as it's unpayable to me.


I understand your point of view, and I would be in support of adding that option. However, the resources used for it are better spent everywhere else right now.

#35 Greensiteofhell

    Rookie

  • 1 posts

Posted 03 August 2014 - 07:29 AM

I am having the same weird experience like Maddog. In all other games the backward movement is just the opposite of MWO - what are they thinking? :P .. learn to "drive"!

#36 IraqiWalker

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • 9,682 posts
  • LocationCalifornia

Posted 03 August 2014 - 07:41 AM

View PostGreensiteofhell, on 03 August 2014 - 07:29 AM, said:

I am having the same weird experience like Maddog. In all other games the backward movement is just the opposite of MWO - what are they thinking? :P .. learn to "drive"!

Actually, their "driving" system, is the more accurate one. Remember, these are walkers, they don't move like cars, easily.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 03 August 2014 - 07:42 AM.


#37 XphR

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Little Helper
  • Little Helper
  • 3,513 posts
  • LocationTVM-Iceless Fold Space Observatory Entertaining cats...

Posted 03 August 2014 - 07:57 AM

I knew command was having me on when they insisted I show the ability to parallel park.

#38 Vezm

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Liquid Metal
  • Liquid Metal
  • 127 posts
  • LocationWellington

Posted 04 August 2014 - 03:59 AM

Stand up, out of your chair, find some room. Walk forwards and turn left, then walk backwards and turn left.

I can understand why people have difficulty sometimes, but that's because they're trying to pretend they're driving, whereas Mechwarriors are pilots not drivers.

#39 Cunicularius

    Rookie

  • 2 posts

Posted 10 January 2016 - 06:47 PM

4 years and nothing has been done about this.

Good job devs, back to WoT with my money.

#40 IraqiWalker

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • 9,682 posts
  • LocationCalifornia

Posted 11 January 2016 - 12:06 AM

View PostCunicularius, on 10 January 2016 - 06:47 PM, said:

4 years and nothing has been done about this.

Good job devs, back to WoT with my money.

Dude, you joined yesterday, and this post never received any dev attention to begin with. I don't think the devs even know about such an issue.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users