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Lrm 20's The Love (Not An Anti Rant)


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#1 SirLANsalot

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 04:10 AM

So as mechs come out, each time I think what mechs can I make that have or can carry 4 LRM 20's? Right now only Assaults can do it, as they have the tonnage for the heavy IS LRM 20. Only 2 mechs can do it, the Awesome-8T and all of the Stalkers can.

Now why 4 LRM 20's? My answer back is Why not? If you haven't seen what kind of damage you do to a mech with these....then you have no idea the kinds of colors you see when they hit an enemy mech. You can and do take a perfectly full undamaged mech and turn it all kinds of dark yellow and oranges in its armor. If its a mech that most of the missiles hit, even on the edges, like an Atlas or Cataphract, the color changes are even deeper.

I came across this build with the 8T and just fell in LOVE with it after seeing the kind of damage and kill numbers it was coming up with. Granted that build sacrifices a lot for it but the damage it deals is second to none. Each build sacs a lot of speed and maneuverability to gain this long range power, and rightly so. For ever advantage you gain, you gain a subsequent disadvantage, in this case, to gain a very very very high alpha strike, you lose a lot of speed, heat efficiency and some armor. You also lose the ability to properly defend yourself if you find yourself too close for comfort to an enemy mech.


Give it a go, 4 LRM 15's work too on more mechs but the 20's.....there just something to be said about nuking a mech from 800m.


/rant (had to rant about this fun build as I was in a match and just decimated the enemy team, was the only LRM mech on our team)

#2 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 04:13 AM

Keep making em and keep folks ranting and telling you that you don't know how to play the game. The more they rant, the more you prove they are not dynamic thinkers.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 07 January 2013 - 04:13 AM.


#3 Agent of Change

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 05:01 AM

An Atlas stomps near,
Sandblasting a soup-cr@cker,
Laughter is healing.

-The LRM boat Haiku. :)

Edited by Agent of Change, 07 January 2013 - 05:02 AM.


#4 SinnerX

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 05:26 AM

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 07 January 2013 - 04:13 AM, said:

Keep making em and keep folks ranting and telling you that you don't know how to play the game. The more they rant, the more you prove they are not dynamic thinkers.


But... it's true. LRMs are the lowest common denominator, literally anyone can do well with them. You can stick 2xLRM20s on an Atlas, spend half the match spinning in circles, fire your LRMs for the last half of the match, and still top the charts for damage. Is that the mark of a skillful weapon?

Anyone can be good with LRMs, but a truly skilled pilot will be absolutely deadly with any non-LRM loadout.

#5 Kaldor

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 05:44 AM

Try an Awesome 8R with 4 ALRM15s and TAG. Ive one shot plenty of lights and a few mediums because they were stupid enough to stand still. And if something runs at me across open ground.... Let the lulz continue.

And those that QQ about it being a no skill weapon, I love force feeding you LRMs because you cannot think outside the box and figure out a way to beat them.

Assault weight LRM boats are easy to kill. Slow and stupid. However, Cat LRM boats with an XL300 can be a PITA to deal with because they can be just as or more mobile than most mechs.

Edited by Kaldor, 07 January 2013 - 05:45 AM.


#6 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 05:52 AM

View PostSinnerX, on 07 January 2013 - 05:26 AM, said:

But... it's true. LRMs are the lowest common denominator, literally anyone can do well with them. You can stick 2xLRM20s on an Atlas, spend half the match spinning in circles, fire your LRMs for the last half of the match, and still top the charts for damage. Is that the mark of a skillful weapon?

Anyone can be good with LRMs, but a truly skilled pilot will be absolutely deadly with any non-LRM loadout.

Yup. Cause if you are spinning in circles for half the game and top the chart you have already killed most the enemy and are now just showing off. You had to hit with a lot of missiles to top the chart in 00:07:30 sir. Plus i can and do, do that with a gauss and ERPPC also.

I shoot and kill Mechs at 900m with my Gauss & ERPPC just as easily as I used to do it with LRMs. There is no more skill required with either weapons.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 07 January 2013 - 05:54 AM.


#7 Skyfaller

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 06:31 AM

View PostSirLANsalot, on 07 January 2013 - 04:10 AM, said:

So as mechs come out, each time I think what mechs can I make that have or can carry 4 LRM 20's? Right now only Assaults can do it, as they have the tonnage for the heavy IS LRM 20. Only 2 mechs can do it, the Awesome-8T and all of the Stalkers can.

Now why 4 LRM 20's? My answer back is Why not?

....

Give it a go, 4 LRM 15's work too on more mechs but the 20's.....there just something to be said about nuking a mech from 800m.



I can tell you right now the why you shouldn't bother with four LRM20s.

My stalkers tested the quad LRM20 setup and the damage they loaded was 174. Thats one point short of the max allowed. (quad LRM20 plus med lasers)

Problem with such a setup is a glitch in the code. The damage simply is not applied.

Test setup:

On AFK/DISCO mechs sitting in enemy base:

2 LRM20s: One salvo does good damage.
3 LRM20's: One salvo does very high damage.
4 LRM20's: One salvo does mediocre damage. Much less damage than 3 LRM20s do.

Eh wut? Yep! Something happens when you put the fourth LRM20 in there. The game code apparently cannot handle such a high burst damage.

Now you can say 'oh its random since missiles dont all hit nor do they hit on the same spot' etc etc.... true! However I tested this over a whole week's time and I can tell you that on LIGHTS that are AFK and standing still the 2 LRM20 leaves them red in one salvo. Three LRM20s either rips parts off or insta-kills them. Four LRM20's NEVER , EVER turn any armor piece red...the damage applied seems to be consistent with only ONE lrm20 hitting the target since they barely turn yellow.

On atlases in combat three LRM20's either obliterate them or kill them in 3 or 4 salvos fired under 400m (so most missiles hit in the front). 4 LRM20's barely hurt it in the same condition even after firing multiple salvos.

Something is majorly glitched.

I've been testing 2 LRM20+2 LRM15 -/- 3LRM20+1LRM15 setups for the past few days to see if the damage 'loss' was caused by damage input from weapon type (global LRM) or by specific launcher type. So far the loss seems to be by global weapon type as the 3LRM20+1LRM15 does not perform visibly better than just the 3 LRM20s. Four LRM15s oth function just like 3 LRM20's...which makes sense since the damage output is identical. 2 LRM20+2LRM15 dont perform any better than 3 LRM20... you would expect an AFK light to take brutal damage from such a volley but it doesnt..it turns the armor red at best.

Doing a quick math I think the issue is:

Any damage past 100 coming from one weapon source (in this case, ANY LRM in ANY combination) is dropped by the game.

3 LRM20s= 108dmg.
4 LRM15s= 108dmg.
4 LRM20s= 144dmg.
2 LRM20+2LRM15= 126dmg

It makes sense in a way... cryengine does apparently have an issue with stuff over value of 100. 100kph+ = lagshield fail hit detection. The game ceases to record most damage applied to target moving at such speed. 100dmg in one burst... it drops any extra damage past 100 apparently.

#8 Kaldor

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 06:49 AM

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 07 January 2013 - 05:52 AM, said:

I shoot and kill Mechs at 900m with my Gauss & ERPPC just as easily as I used to do it with LRMs. There is no more skill required with either weapons.


Ding Ding, we have a winner folks. Not really hard to be a sniper either. But I will argue that LRMs are near ineffective at 900 meters. Just too much flight time and too easy to avoid. However, LRMs at 300-400 meters with open LOS and TAG are just nasty.

#9 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 07:00 AM

View PostKaldor, on 07 January 2013 - 06:49 AM, said:


Ding Ding, we have a winner folks. Not really hard to be a sniper either. But I will argue that LRMs are near ineffective at 900 meters. Just too much flight time and too easy to avoid. However, LRMs at 300-400 meters with open LOS and TAG are just nasty.

Yep flight time of Missiles does seem a bit slow. Always has. As to sniping v Brawling v Fire Support none require a huge amount of skill. Proof is I can do each job with efficiency in the game.

#10 Jordax

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 07:24 AM

my awesome had 2xlrm20 and 2xlrm15 2xmedlasers, but i downgraded to 1xlrm20 and 3xlrm15 2xmedlasers, the change gives me 2 more tons of ammo wich makes a huge diffrence. I can fire longer, the cycle time for lrm15 are faster and less heat to manage, overall i find this the most efficient build then 4 lrm20.

#11 Serapth

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 07:55 AM

LRMs still require skill to use, it's just a different skill. While lasers require straffing and targeting skill, proper LRM usage require good positioning ability, more so now that Artemis requires line of site. In some ways, thanks to ERM and the need to tag, an LRM boat often needs to have all the skills required to keep a laser on target in addition to good positioning.


Now, I dont know about LRM20s though... statistically LRM15s are almost always superior.

I did have an experience recently where some clan **** was dumping on my build ( ironic him being dead and all ) because I used LRMs ( Atlas with 2 LRM15s ). Match ends and the scoreboard shows I out damaged him by about 300, and out killed him by 2.

Basically dont listen to other people if they dump on your build, especially if you are having fun.

The funniest part is the brawlers that whine about LRM boats standing back nuking stuff, completely failing to realize those LRMs are a big part of the reason the enemy a) isn't swarming you or :P are damaged making your killstats better.

Edited by Serapth, 07 January 2013 - 07:58 AM.


#12 Lee Ving

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 08:07 AM

View PostSerapth, on 07 January 2013 - 07:55 AM, said:

The funniest part is the brawlers that whine about LRM boats standing back nuking stuff, completely failing to realize those LRMs are a big part of the reason the enemy a) isn't swarming you or :P are damaged making your killstats better.


Agree on everything except the last point - I often find LRMs provide the easy finishing blow to improve the boat's KDR while my AC/20 and SRMs are softening a target enough to let that salvo kill them. No real complaint here, just saying it works the other way as often as not from what I've seen with good LRMs.

#13 StalaggtIKE

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 08:11 AM

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 07 January 2013 - 07:00 AM, said:

Yep flight time of Missiles does seem a bit slow. Always has. As to sniping v Brawling v Fire Support none require a huge amount of skill. Proof is I can do each job with efficiency in the game.

Exactly. I get fed up with fanboys stating that ECM made this game more skilled based. :P

#14 Serapth

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 08:15 AM

View PostNadia Winson, on 07 January 2013 - 08:07 AM, said:

Agree on everything except the last point - I often find LRMs provide the easy finishing blow to improve the boat's KDR while my AC/20 and SRMs are softening a target enough to let that salvo kill them. No real complaint here, just saying it works the other way as often as not from what I've seen with good LRMs.


I would say that certainly used to be true, with LRMs it used to be brutally simple to KS, especially when they were dropping straight down... Now though, LRMs simply dont seem to strike the kill blow all that often, unless of course you've got some ***** standing in the open just asking for it. Even then, they just dont seem as effective in killing as they used to be... damaging sure. I had a situation recently where a Stalker was just... walking in the open on caustic. It took 11 volleys of 30LRMs to kill him. The splash effect just seems to require you to take a mech to 0% now.

I split my time pretty evenly between long range and brawling, and I certainly find my Flame ( new fav mech btw... ) gets way more kill credits, while my LRM boats cause by FAR more damage.

Again, no complaint from me either. This is especially true now that getting the assist is more lucrative :P

View PostStalaggtIKE, on 07 January 2013 - 08:11 AM, said:

Exactly. I get fed up with fanboys stating that ECM made this game more skilled based. :D



It certainly made it more shooter based. Playing pugs, I have switched much more often to "dumbfire" weapons, like SRM6's, pulse lasers and the like. If your skills are say... FPS derived, the game is much more to your play style under ECM.

I would certainly say ECM made the game more twitch skill heavy, while in PuGs at least, much less strategic in nature.

#15 Hou

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 08:16 AM

View PostNadia Winson, on 07 January 2013 - 08:07 AM, said:

Agree on everything except the last point - I often find LRMs provide the easy finishing blow to improve the boat's KDR while my AC/20 and SRMs are softening a target enough to let that salvo kill them. No real complaint here, just saying it works the other way as often as not from what I've seen with good LRMs.


I don't usually like running LRM boats, but when I do it does indeed work both ways. /agree

What I think is more effective, however, is for the boat to soften rather than finish. LRMS do a lot of damage when they hit, but you can't direct it to key locations, so getting a kill shot with them is dicey. More effective, from my experience, is for the boat to fire LRMs at a target until you notice that its armor and internals are stripped enough that one of your buddies with direct fire weapons can go ahead and punch the target down while you move on to softening the next target. I've had good success before running two centurions(man those things suck) while the buddy had two ALRM 15s and a tag for softening and I had a Wang with an AC20 to exploit opened armor hard.

Edited by Hou, 07 January 2013 - 08:18 AM.


#16 Wormrex

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 08:25 AM

Keep building them pure LRM boats, I've always been happy to hunt them down.

#17 Hou

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 08:32 AM

View PostWormrex, on 07 January 2013 - 08:25 AM, said:

Keep building them pure LRM boats, I've always been happy to hunt them down.


The thing about running LRMs is it's also dicey to hybrid mount them. If you mount any, between the weight required to mount decent launchers and the ammo and heat resources to run them, and the hardpoints they occupy rather than brawling weapons(even if you mount dinky launchers) means that you are going to get outbrawled and out-direct fired when you face an enemy that hasn't expended mounting resources putting LRMs on. So if you run a hybrid you almost have to still play like an LRM boat during the scrum. If you have to play like an LRM boat, the temptation to mount enough missiles to smite like God when they actually hit is enourmous(and not always that bad an idea, honestly).

Edited by Hou, 07 January 2013 - 08:35 AM.


#18 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 08:43 AM

View PostStalaggtIKE, on 07 January 2013 - 08:11 AM, said:

Exactly. I get fed up with fanboys stating that ECM made this game more skilled based. :P

No, it just changed the skills you need to use. there isn't a bunch of skill required to aim and click.

#19 FrDrake

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 08:50 AM

Press H, left click, left click, left click, left click....

Hey look guys I'm skilled

#20 Pando

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 08:54 AM

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 07 January 2013 - 08:43 AM, said:

No, it just changed the skills you need to use. there isn't a bunch of skill required to aim and click.


True. You know, I think there is a much larger degree of skill required to effectively operate direct/indirect fire support mech's than other builds. Looking back, some of the most intense matches to me were 8v8 drops where we were running 2 LRM boats (HBK-4SP's) facing nearly an entire enemy team comprised of ECM. The snap decisions required to lead the LRM team to maintain combat effectiveness were IMO more difficult than leading brawlers or strikers.

Different load-outs = different mind-sets. I love running LRM's in 4 mans. If we're facing another 4 man pre-made, usually running that ECM. It's more difficult then to pilot an indirect/direct FS boat than it would be say the ECM/Brawlers.

My 2 cents.


View PostFrDrake, on 07 January 2013 - 08:50 AM, said:

Press H, left click, left click, left click, left click....

Hey look guys I'm skilled


H? Says the ECM scout raven IMO lol!

Edited by Pando, 07 January 2013 - 08:54 AM.






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