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Spiderfest 2013.


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#21 Vassago Rain

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 12:25 PM

View Postmwhighlander, on 13 January 2013 - 12:23 PM, said:

Well, the good news is with all the people raging when the Spider will be proven utterly worthless by ECM mandos and ravens, perhaps PGI will admit they completely fuckd up with ECM then. And in turn the ECM will go back to doing what its actually supposed to be doing and people will remember again that LRM and SSRMs ARE STILL IMBALANCED FFS!


It's not that ECM is OP. but more that the spider is undergunned compared to the other lights.

I guess you could do what I used to do with the commandos; take an ER large and snipe for the whole game.

#22 80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 12:34 PM

View PostVassago Rain, on 13 January 2013 - 12:25 PM, said:


It's not that ECM is OP. but more that the spider is undergunned compared to the other lights.

I guess you could do what I used to do with the commandos; take an ER large and snipe for the whole game.


Vass, ECM is borked. Its effects on gameplay are too great. Look at the Canon rules behind ECM, its incarnations and the role ECM had on the previous games. There is something very wrong with it right now.

I used to have fun with a single ERPPC on a Jenner in CB. We have a whole team take that loadout before. Good times.

#23 Vassago Rain

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 12:36 PM

View Postmwhighlander, on 13 January 2013 - 12:34 PM, said:


Vass, ECM is borked. Its effects on gameplay are too great. Look at the Canon rules behind ECM, its incarnations and the role ECM had on the previous games. There is something very wrong with it right now.

I used to have fun with a single ERPPC on a Jenner in CB. We have a whole team take that loadout before. Good times.


In canon, ACs have a minimum range, and you suffer a lot of other effects from heat than risking a shutdown.

#24 verybad

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 12:38 PM

View PostPANZERBUNNY, on 13 January 2013 - 09:18 AM, said:

You think the game will be playable on Tues? That's cute.

Only one patch in the past that I recall making the game truly unplayable.

What got you upset, did a spider crawl up your...

#25 LaserAngel

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 12:40 PM

Tuesday? Probably the heavy energy weapon heat drops. 2 PPCs to the back of a light will send it sky high.

#26 80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 12:41 PM

View PostVassago Rain, on 13 January 2013 - 12:36 PM, said:


In canon, ACs have a minimum range, and you suffer a lot of other effects from heat than risking a shutdown.


Oh, I'm not arguing weapon properties here. I'm arguing the purpose the equipment served in canon, or even past MW games. Basic ECM has never had the ability do half of the stuff its doing right now. Its helped hide mechs or make it more difficult to aquire lock-on, but never been a wonder shield against all lock-on missiles and all friendlies in the local area.

Hell, I hate using missiles, and I can see its not working. ECM's purpose according to the dev's in MW:O was supposed to make players smarter and make the battlefield more dynamic. If anything, its doing the exact opposite. Other than the trial light mechs, no-one is using variants that can't use ECM, and the most prominent Assault mech right now is the DDC. Definitely more dynamic and interesting, right?!

I guess I should get back on track. I agree with you (WHAT?!) the spider is entirely DOA with the state of the game. Hordes of players still riding the FOTM ravens/mandos will eat these players wanting to try out the spider before it can even fire a single weapon.

Edited by mwhighlander, 13 January 2013 - 12:44 PM.


#27 verybad

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 12:41 PM

View PostTermius, on 13 January 2013 - 12:23 PM, said:

With the coming of Spiderfest I feel there is only one way to deal with it.

"Equips flamers"
Posted Image

Yeah you do that :rolleyes:

#28 ivr56

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 12:44 PM

my dual AC-10XB's are waiting :rolleyes:

#29 Vassago Rain

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 12:46 PM

View Postmwhighlander, on 13 January 2013 - 12:41 PM, said:


Oh, I'm not arguing weapon properties here. I'm arguing the purpose the equipment served in canon, or even past MW games. Basic ECM has never had the ability do half of the stuff its doing right now. Its helped hide mechs or make it more difficult to aquire lock-on, but never been a wonder shield against all lock-on missiles and all friendlies in the local area.

Hell, I hate using missiles, and I can see its not working. ECM's purpose according to the dev's in MW:O was supposed to make players smarter and make the battlefield more dynamic. If anything, its doing the exact opposite. Other than the trial light mechs, no-one is using variants that can't use ECM, and the most prominent Assault mech right now is the DDC. Definitely more dynamic and interesting, right?!


The purpose of double heatsinks is to double your heatsinking, but they're only 1.4 here. This game isn't a tabletop viewscreen, where you have full knowledge of everything.

Things will be different, no matter what we may think, and you have to adapt to how the shooter version of battletech operates.

#30 Orzorn

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 12:46 PM

View PostVassago Rain, on 13 January 2013 - 12:25 PM, said:


It's not that ECM is OP. but more that the spider is undergunned compared to the other lights.

I guess you could do what I used to do with the commandos; take an ER large and snipe for the whole game.

Well, you must recognize that without ECM, the Spider is going to get shredded by SSRMs. It doesn't really matter how fast your mech goes, since SSRMs can't miss (for the most part. If they hit terrain they'll explode, but I'm sure you've seen when SSRMs get near miss and then ridiculously spin in a circle around a mech before making contact. It looks hilarious).

I guess the best thing to do with the Spider would be to find an ECM buddy and stick close to them, or maybe fit an AMS on it and try to keep your distance so that the AMS has time to act on the SSRMs (which I sometimes doubt if AMS even affects them. Perhaps it does, but its hard to notice the effects when you're getting swarmed by Ravens).

Quote

Things will be different, no matter what we may think, and you have to adapt to how the shooter version of battletech operates.

We've adapted for sure, but that doesn't mean that we have to like it, nor that its healthy for the game or for variety. Besides that, its about the spirit of the TT, not the word. I never wanted exact rules implementations. I wanted those to feel like they're supposed to. Do AC/20s hit hard? Are medium lasers generalist fill-in weapons? Do LRMs feel long range? I don't care if an AC/10 does 10 damage. I care that its the battle rifle of mechs.

If we're purely talking about how the devs claimed ECM would make the game have larger variety (and not whether its OP or not), I'd definitely have to disagree.

Edited by Orzorn, 13 January 2013 - 12:52 PM.


#31 Termius

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 12:48 PM

View Postverybad, on 13 January 2013 - 12:41 PM, said:

Yeah you do that :rolleyes:


I suddenly feel determined to do just that. A SPIDER WILL BE FELLED BY MY FLAMES.

#32 80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 12:48 PM

View PostVassago Rain, on 13 January 2013 - 12:46 PM, said:


The purpose of double heatsinks is to double your heatsinking, but they're only 1.4 here. This game isn't a tabletop viewscreen, where you have full knowledge of everything.

Things will be different, no matter what we may think, and you have to adapt to how the shooter version of battletech operates.


I just said I'm not looking a literal translation of TT? I was arguing the purpose or spirit of the equipment. DHS still holds the purpose over normal heat sinks in that regard by providing more heat dissipation for less tonnage at a cost of space. They still hold their purpose in that regard.

You know what, I'm not going to reply to you. We're clearly on two different pages here and I feel like you're just going to keep assuming I'm some sort of TT fanatic.

#33 xZaOx

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 12:51 PM

I'm really looking forward to its "7" stock damage alpha.

#34 verybad

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 12:53 PM

Lots of Spiders with Flamers and Machineguns wouldn't be a bad thing...

Lets make it so!

#35 80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 12:55 PM

View Postverybad, on 13 January 2013 - 12:53 PM, said:

Lots of Spiders with Flamers and Machineguns wouldn't be a bad thing...

Lets make it so!


I rather have an Urbie, tbh

#36 Orzorn

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 01:00 PM

View Postverybad, on 13 January 2013 - 12:53 PM, said:

Lots of Spiders with Flamers and Machineguns wouldn't be a bad thing...

Lets make it so!

Hopefully they sufficienty buff machine guns next patch. If so, that Spider variant and the 4 ballistic Cicada might get used a bit more often.

But from what I've seen of dev comments, they'll only get "better" (however much that will be) at destroying internals, but they aren't even looking at increasing damage, which is a damned shame. They don't even have the same ratio with the small laser as they had in the TT. The machine gun didn't even get translated into MWO properly. 80 damage per ton of ammo compared to 200... Its all sorts of messed up.

Edited by Orzorn, 13 January 2013 - 01:01 PM.


#37 verybad

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 01:03 PM

One must make do with what one has. It is the Draconis way...

View PostOrzorn, on 13 January 2013 - 01:00 PM, said:

Hopefully they sufficienty buff machine guns next patch. If so, that Spider variant and the 4 ballistic Cicada might get used a bit more often.

But from what I've seen of dev comments, they'll only get "better" (however much that will be) at destroying internals, but they aren't even looking at increasing damage, which is a damned shame. They don't even have the same ratio with the small laser as they had in the TT. The machine gun didn't even get translated into MWO properly. 80 damage per ton of ammo compared to 200... Its all sorts of messed up.

OH I know. I'm not terribly concerned about winning so much as making pretty patterns in the sky however. I'm gonna weave a web of fire and destruction in the atmosphere. If I can PO somebody on my own team that takes their W/L percentage seriously, then all the better.

#38 Omni Tek

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 01:08 PM

Streaks at the ready boys...
*ready*
PULL!!!

#39 Anyone00

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 01:17 PM

If the Spider's JJ capacity is not hard capped I'm going to build me a SPR-5V with 2 MLAS, ES, XL-255, 10 in engine Large HS, and 18 JJ; just for fun.

#40 Orzorn

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 01:20 PM

View PostAnyone00, on 13 January 2013 - 01:17 PM, said:

If the Spider's JJ capacity is not hard capped I'm going to build me a SPR-5V with 2 MLAS, ES, XL-255, 10 in engine Large HS, and 18 JJ; just for fun.

You know, our very own Technoviking was doing amazing the other night with JJs on his Jenner. They provided him some absolutely serious forward and up thrust. He was practically manuvouring like a Gundam (heresy!), and he was running just 4 JJs. If they don't have a cap, or even with the standard 8 on a Spider, I imagine that it will be able to pull some serious moves on, even before they do any buffs to JJs.





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