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The Hard Core Folks Are Going To Have To Accept. . .


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#21 Mechwarrior Buddah

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 09:52 PM

View PostDeamhan, on 20 January 2013 - 09:47 PM, said:

Oh but they're quick to turn out new mechs which can be bought with mc and more importantly hero mechs that can ONLY be bought with mc. Imagine that.


in before the "art direction/mech making guys are different from blah blah blah" guys

#22 Oxford

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 09:56 PM

If you want to compare it to EVE. I stopped playing that too because ice mining in nullsec to keep the station resupplied ended up feeling like a second job. I took a break and never went back.
Everyone I know who signed up in closed beta is taking a break from MWO. When you need to take a break or a holiday from a 'game' there is something wrong.

Edited by Oxford, 20 January 2013 - 09:59 PM.


#23 Mechwarrior Buddah

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 10:03 PM

View PostOxford, on 20 January 2013 - 09:56 PM, said:

If you want to compare it to EVE. I stopped playing that too because ice mining in nullsec to keep the station resupplied ended up feeling like a second job. I took a break and never went back.
Everyone I know who signed up in closed beta is taking a break from MWO. When you need to take a break or a holiday from a 'game' there is something wrong.


isnt technically beta testing supposed to be work and not playing the game? You know, looking for bugs, trying to break the game? IE as Yahtzee said when he betaed "Tabula Rasa" (lol, Gareth Gobblecoque)
http://www.escapistm...n/9-Tabula-Rasa

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 20 January 2013 - 10:03 PM.


#24 Vapor Trail

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 10:10 PM

You want steep learning curve, try picking up the original Tribes and going in cold.

The basic Tribes gameplay had a nearly asymptotic learning curve... it was part of what made the game great. Also part of what made it a niche game, but you either got it, or you got out.

Just don't get me started on the learning curve for the Renegades ruleset. That had a learning curve like a pretzel.

(Danger, Tribes Jargon ahead).
Part of what doomed Tribes Vengeance was the "lets flatten out the learning curve a little" removal of really high speed movement from Tribes 1 and 2. In competitive play you saw some REALLY insane speeds out of cappers. The downside to that kind of speed is you were kind of predictable... Farmers got good with turret placements and HoFs got really good with mortar shots. Midair mortar hits were, not really common, but they weren't all that rare for the really good players either.

T:V took that out, by instituting a (really small compared to the maps from the earlier installments) hard boundary on the maps. This reduced the learning curve for pretty much everybody, making the truly stellar T2 capper just another guy with a jetpack...

Learning curve is NOT a bad thing. Especially for something advertising itself as "a thinking man's shooter." Flattening the learning curve would just turn it into "a shooter."

#25 xRaeder

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 10:15 PM

This game has many more problems that need to be addressed other than the ones the OP talked about.

Lagshield, ECM balance, hitbox adjustments, and a complete lack of scale compared to other FPS titles.

#26 Thirdstar

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 10:16 PM

View PostVapor Trail, on 20 January 2013 - 10:10 PM, said:

Learning curve is NOT a bad thing. Especially for something advertising itself as "a thinking man's shooter." Flattening the learning curve would just turn it into "a shooter."


The problem is that this has never been true for MWO, and this is a textbook case of false advertising.

#27 Mechwarrior Buddah

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 10:18 PM

Ill post it!!!!

Posted Image

#28 Cerlin

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 10:21 PM

I love the eve picture. But yeah I think the solution to this game isnt dumbing it down but making more tools to help players in game. A newb lobby system for chat, a pre and post match chat system would both help loads in giving feedback to new players. Currently all you see is "L2P noob" and the guy leaves the match, not especially constructive. while the community does have many helpful videos and avenues such as Ts3, its not as accessible to new players.

#29 Mechwarrior Buddah

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 10:26 PM

View PostCerlin, on 20 January 2013 - 10:21 PM, said:

I love the eve picture. But yeah I think the solution to this game isnt dumbing it down but making more tools to help players in game. A newb lobby system for chat, a pre and post match chat system would both help loads in giving feedback to new players. Currently all you see is "L2P noob" and the guy leaves the match, not especially constructive. while the community does have many helpful videos and avenues such as Ts3, its not as accessible to new players.


hell, tutorials...

#30 Cerlin

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 10:28 PM

Well I personally love just jumping in to learn Buddah, but I think at least a "shooting range" type map where players could stomp around and test a mech wouldnt be terrible.

#31 Thirdstar

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 10:28 PM

View PostMechwarrior Buddah, on 20 January 2013 - 10:26 PM, said:


hell, tutorials...


Or the ability to create testing lobbies/matches (with no rewards of course).

#32 Mechwarrior Buddah

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 10:29 PM

View PostCerlin, on 20 January 2013 - 10:28 PM, said:

Well I personally love just jumping in to learn Buddah, but I think at least a "shooting range" type map where players could stomp around and test a mech wouldnt be terrible.


Yeah but the general player wont love jumping in to BE the shooting range target lol

#33 Roflberry Pwncakes

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 10:35 PM

Not having arcade control schemes and custom views that make it more console friendly isn't the root of the problem. I've played a pretty large amount of vehicle combat games, starting at about 8 or 9 years old with Microprose's 'F-15 Strike Eagle' for the C-64, so I think I've got something to say about the subject lol. The only sim that made me frustrated enough to up and quit was Microsoft's 'Combat Flight Simulator', because there didn't seem to be a happy medium between the realistic flight experience that I was looking for, and the easier arcade controls that made it too easy for a challenge. It was either far too simple, or so unforgivably complicated and realistic that just getting into the air was a huge victory. I don't find a lot of games that have the problem of being to difficult to control. What I see as the problem with the MWO kids, is dropping 12 yr olds that haven't had much experience at all with a pure cockpit simulator experience. How long ago was it that MW4 or X-Wing Alliance or Heavy Gear was what everyone was playing? So you drop these kids, who were probably still watching Teletubbies when MW4 Mercs and Inner Sphere Wars was going full swing, into matches with founder type folks who have years, if not decades of experience with BattleTech or the MechWarrior universe, and they don't get any training in the basic fundamentals. It's not about piloting skills and arcading the controls down and a 3rd person view mode. Arcade control and the 3rd person view are something that console titles resort to because they aren't built for the PC, which has a whole keyboard, mouse, and sometimes joystick to give more control depth. Console games have to put every control you need onto that bitty controller, and eventually items have to be left out or streamlined to make it all fit, and I think everyone gets that. What I see a lot of not getting, is that there's a lot of strategy and tactics that belong solely to this game and can't be imported. I'm talking about things like heat management, prioritizing targets, focus firing, effective weapon ranges, special rules for specific weapons (Yes Virginia, a Gauss cannon blows up better than it's ammo does if you hit it right. CASE the gun, not the rounds!). Every day I watch other players from the spectator mode and see dumb mistakes, like ignoring heavily damaged lights and mediums and focusing everything on a pristine heavy or assault class who rolls up and says BOO. Or trying to snipe targets at 800 meters with medium lasers, or trying to blast targets with PPCs at point blank... things that an experienced MechWarrior or BattleTech table-topper has taken to heart ages ago. And I think that might be where the problem lies, everyone who's been involved with this from the start, or at least from the closed beta, were already familiar with everything. The reason we applied for the beta, or threw down the scratch for the founder's tag, was because we already knew this game, we love this game, and it just wouldn't have been right not being a part of it from the start. Now that it's in open beta, hordes of players who don't have any knowledge of the game system join up, and as soon as the patcher gets them up to date, they get to drop against sharks who know WTF and have known it for years. Thankfully the community isn't full of trolls who respond to questions with "L2P noob!", but there isn't a whole lot of time before a match gets heated up to go over the finer points. All in all, the lack of an interactive tutorial and a training sandbox is a real good way to tick off an entire demographic, and while they might not give up all together, they could just as easily become trolls who take out their frustrations on their own team as soon as the countdown is over, or once the brawl starts. I know I'm not just imagining the huge increase in players since open beta who just don't give a damn about friendly fire. It's F2P, so what do they have to loose?

#34 Thirdstar

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 10:37 PM

View PostRoflberry Pwncakes, on 20 January 2013 - 10:35 PM, said:

......................snip


OWWWW MY EYES!!!!!!

#35 Snowcaller

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 10:37 PM

Chat for puggers. The most pressing need.

I've stood up for this game for a long time now, citing the 'only a beta argument' time and time again.
But i've spent way over a hundred bucks on this so far, and my money is definitely 1.0 money, and i frequently have play sessions that have only one or two fun games. Those aren't even guaranteed.

Sometimes I just get verbal abuse for requesting spotters or gloated at by keyboard commandos when their chat coordinated team (all hidden by ECM) mug me and then proceed to separate and destroy the pug team i'm on.
You can't code out the rude and the virginal, but if the fun doesn't drown them out, it's what you are left with.

Once my premium time runs out, i can't see myself playing for a while.
I love Battletech and Mechwarrior, but i can live with MW3, 4 and my '1604' for a while for my fix.
Mercs is 1.0 free.

And it's never told me to 'die in a fire'.

#36 Mechwarrior Buddah

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 10:37 PM

paragraph please

#37 ThunderOverWater

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 10:38 PM

View PostCzardread, on 20 January 2013 - 09:11 PM, said:

I dont really think that 3rd person view and non throttle movement would convince many people to come back, but it would convince a LOT of people to leave. . . .


This will undoubtedly place me in the ranks of the despised, but I'd actually like to see my mech while playing. The cockpit view makes me think I'm flying an airplane that makes stompy noises. However, it should not confer any sightline advantage. Not sure how to pull that off.

#38 M4rtyr

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 10:40 PM

View PostMechwarrior Buddah, on 20 January 2013 - 10:26 PM, said:


hell, tutorials...


To be honest it's pretty ignorant of PGI to not have any weapon stats in game. Yes the reasoning is they are still tweaking them so they don't want people thinking anything is set in stone. But when the game is available to the open public you have to give them some direction to what does what.

I'f I wasn't an old hand at Btech I would have looked at the mechs and thought, WTF?

The training videos were helpful for me the first couple days, like the difference between arm and torso reticles, but you really need this stuff in game so new players have some clue whats going on.

#39 Mechwarrior Buddah

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 10:43 PM

View PostM4rtyr, on 20 January 2013 - 10:40 PM, said:


To be honest it's pretty ignorant of PGI to not have any weapon stats in game. Yes the reasoning is they are still tweaking them so they don't want people thinking anything is set in stone. But when the game is available to the open public you have to give them some direction to what does what.

I'f I wasn't an old hand at Btech I would have looked at the mechs and thought, WTF?

The training videos were helpful for me the first couple days, like the difference between arm and torso reticles, but you really need this stuff in game so new players have some clue whats going on.


do they have the info that PCPs and lrms dont do damage inside minimum range in game yet? I cant remember

#40 CutterWolf

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 10:44 PM

View PostDeath Mallet, on 20 January 2013 - 08:38 PM, said:

It's a tough game to learn to play. Certainly takes a lot more coordination and skill than most other games on the market.

I think I've got a little over 400 games in from jumping in and out at various times since closed beta. . . I'd say I'm definitely still learning basics.

That's just too steep a hill for new players to climb. I think there are going to have to be some changes if PGI really wants to get the player base to support this game revenue-wise.

That's why things like:

3rd person view
Non-throttle movement

and other unpopular features are probably going to become a reality at some point or another.

That's going to upset a lot of people, but the truth is many of those people will still come back. And the number of people they lose due to those decisions will be dwarfed by the size of the player base they gain.

I actually think it does a pretty good job of providing Battletech feel right now. Obviously a lot of work left to be done, but they're on the right track and light years beyond where they were when I first tried it out in closed beta.

I'd honestly rather see some 3rd person view just so I get to look at the mechs more. . . I feel you're so busy playing you don't really get to see much of the environment/models right now and that would be pretty cool to see.

Anyway. . . just a little future prediction.



No, "you" and those like you are going to have to accept the fact that this game is not for the "I win button types" or the "low information voter types" Wow, you mean you mite have to actually have to have some skill and coordination and god forbid "use your brain?" The horror of it all!! After 400 games you should have a very good idea of how this game works, the only thing you should be working on it this point is "how to build better mechs, and "working on your shooting skills"



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