73 replies to this topic

[Rodrigo Martinez]

My dragons and cent-D both can hit 100+ speed but not sure if somebody had a problem with hitting my mechs on that speed. I have superior speed for my weight, and use it to go fast behind the enemy back and _stay_ there, not dancing around the Atlas or Stalker with no fear, cuz it means fast death to me. But lights, usually ravens can do it in god mode.

[Mr 144]

2-4 kills and 350-650 damage average per match is not OP. These numbers are relatively easy to achieve in any weight class for experienced pilots. If the assault and heavies you're running with do not regularily fall into this range, the problem is not the chassis

Listing a Commando as the easy button is just priceless, as next to the spider (also listed), it's pretty easy to take apart in any heavy or assault I own.

Mr 144

[SinnerX]

Mr 144, on 21 January 2013 - 12:35 AM, said:

2-4 kills and 350-650 damage average per match is not OP. These numbers are relatively easy to achieve in any weight class for experienced pilots. If the assault and heavies you're running with do not regularily fall into this range, the problem is not the chassis

Listing a Commando as the easy button is just priceless, as next to the spider (also listed), it's pretty easy to take apart in any heavy or assault I own.

Mr 144

"I'm good at X, so that means Y is not good."

You've missed the point completely. A skilled pilot in a ECM light will beat a skilled pilot in an assault. There's just no comparing the two. You can set up all sorts of scenarios of "Well he'd come this way and I'd leg him" but you're automatically assuming the light pilot is stupid enough to engage on your terms. On equal footing and taking "luck" out of the equation, the light always wins.

[SixPrime]

Lights do not dominate at all.
I have no issues whatsoever in killing them, in heavy or assault (my 2 main classes).

They are the easiest mechs to kill, by far, unless they run away... hiding and trying to ninja cap the base. The only difficulty is when they teleport due to the lag, which not only wastes your ammo but also heats up your mech.
ECM lights are the most powerful ones, but not a problem for players who know how to counter them. I usually enjoy taking my LRM boat against heavy ECM team because they think they're invincible. Then I tag them and BAM, easy kill.
Of course it takes good knowledge of the map and you have to position yourself well, always with heat vision on, trying to predict enemy's movement by looking around.

I think the ECM is quite powerful because very few people know how to counter it. Mainly 2 things : you either set up your own ECM in counter mode, or you tag the guy you want to shoot.
I lost the count I had 2+ ECM lights in my team who didn't know how to do any of the 2 things mentioned above. Of course, it makes it much more difficult to win when they don't know what to do.


And btw, lights are DEFINITELY doing less damage than AS-7s or STKs. With assault class I usually do between 600 and 1.000 damage (with assault LRM boat even more sometimes).

Edited by SixPrime, 21 January 2013 - 12:52 AM.

[Mr 144]

SinnerX, on 21 January 2013 - 12:49 AM, said:

"I'm good at X, so that means Y is not good."

You've missed the point completely. A skilled pilot in a ECM light will beat a skilled pilot in an assault. There's just no comparing the two. You can set up all sorts of scenarios of "Well he'd come this way and I'd leg him" but you're automatically assuming the light pilot is stupid enough to engage on your terms. On equal footing and taking "luck" out of the equation, the light always wins.

And I completely disagree with that. On equall footing, an assault will beat a light....any light. Sure, you may run an assault build not set-up for it, but that's a build choice and not an inherent weekness to the chassis or weight class. I'm not talking skill here, just simple tactics...

Back to a wall.
Lead your Target
Chain fire Beam weapons.
Time ballistics (my preferred light-killer)
SRM at the feet (or even the ground)
create fire corridors using terrain.

patience...3xSSRM2s will not insta-kill you..you have time to position yourself for a proper defense. Take away the lights advantage and they are easily defeatable. This isn't skill...this is knowledge.

The heavies and assault lights chew up do not take the necessary precautions when forced too. When you let any enemy dictate the terms of engaement you have already lost. I see it all the time..heavies try to fight lights like they would another heavy by circle fighting in the wide open, then QQ when the light doesn't act like one.

Mr 144

[TruePoindexter]

Mr 144, on 21 January 2013 - 01:04 AM, said:

And I completely disagree with that. On equall footing, an assault will beat a light....any light. Sure, you may run an assault build not set-up for it, but that's a build choice and not an inherent weekness to the chassis or weight class. I'm not talking skill here, just simple tactics...

Back to a wall.
Lead your Target
Chain fire Beam weapons.
Time ballistics (my preferred light-killer)
SRM at the feet (or even the ground)
create fire corridors using terrain.

patience...3xSSRM2s will not insta-kill you..you have time to position yourself for a proper defense. Take away the lights advantage and they are easily defeatable. This isn't skill...this is knowledge.

The heavies and assault lights chew up do not take the necessary precautions when forced too. When you let any enemy dictate the terms of engaement you have already lost. I see it all the time..heavies try to fight lights like they would another heavy by circle fighting in the wide open, then QQ when the light doesn't act like one.

Mr 144

Adding to this and it's anecdotal but I have killed back to back three Jenners (remember them? they have more firepower than Ravens and are even more mobile) using nothing but 2x large lasers mounted on the arms of an Atlas.

Stay calm and land your shots - you have so much armor that you can weather them for a long time.

[Ilwrath]

SixPrime, on 21 January 2013 - 12:50 AM, said:

Lights do not dominate at all.
I have no issues whatsoever in killing them, in heavy or assault (my 2 main classes).

They are the easiest mechs to kill, by far, unless they run away... hiding and trying to ninja cap the base. The only difficulty is when they teleport due to the lag, which not only wastes your ammo but also heats up your mech.

Setup Tag to always fire. Use that to see where the hitbox of the lights really are. Understand from that how broken lights are.
Add ECM to said lights so they are even harder to hit and immune to the only weapon that can take them down with ease.

No problems. Right.

Its garbage and makes the game unfun.

[Pr8Dator]

A single Raven or any light isn't scary... sometimes even two isn't scary. They only get scary when 3 or more of them are circling you but hey, which mech isn't scary if 3 to 4 of them are circling you?

[SixPrime]

Ilwrath, on 21 January 2013 - 01:14 AM, said:

Setup Tag to always fire. Use that to see where the hitbox of the lights really are. Understand from that how broken lights are.
Add ECM to said lights so they are even harder to hit and immune to the only weapon that can take them down with ease.

No problems. Right.

Well, these are your issues, I don't have them

Pr8Dator, on 21 January 2013 - 01:20 AM, said:

A single Raven or any light isn't scary... sometimes even two isn't scary. They only get scary when 3 or more of them are circling you but hey, which mech isn't scary if 3 to 4 of them are circling you?

Last time I got circled by 3 light mechs (2 were ECM) in my Gausscat, I killed the 3 of them. I was alone.

Edited by SixPrime, 21 January 2013 - 01:25 AM.

[Test Monkey 13]

yes i will bring up the TT argument. but it is valid.

an ac20 hit anywhere on a commando blew it out of the water. LEG->torso->CT or arm->torso->CT. there just wasnt enough internal structure on the mech.

the fact that they can last multiple volleys is terrible.

I would reccommend to NOT allow armour to be doubled on light mechs. And furthermore, to scale the armour as follows:

20T armour multiplier: 1.00
25T: 1.05
30T: 1.10
35T: 1.15

40T: 1.25
45T: 1.35
50T: 1.45
55T: 1.55

60T: 1.75
65T: 1.85
70T: 1.95
75T: 2.00

80-100T: 2.00

that way mech armour scales. and light mechs have to now worry about not being able to take hits.

I think i will post this in suggestions.

[Quxudica]

Pr8Dator, on 21 January 2013 - 01:20 AM, said:

A single Raven or any light isn't scary... sometimes even two isn't scary. They only get scary when 3 or more of them are circling you but hey, which mech isn't scary if 3 to 4 of them are circling you?

Two Ravens are enough to kill pretty much anything without streaks. I just had a game where a single raven ran straight toward me in open terrain on caustic, I put two dual gauss alphas right in its center torso (if not cockpit) before it got to me and neither did any damage. Nor did the next two alphas, it took five double gauss shots before a hit finally registered. Until the net code is fixed, lights are a major issue.

The four man Raven premades are also getting really really tiring.

[Felix]

Test Monkey 13, on 21 January 2013 - 01:27 AM, said:

yes i will bring up the TT argument. but it is valid.

an ac20 hit anywhere on a commando blew it out of the water. LEG->torso->CT or arm->torso->CT. there just wasnt enough internal structure on the mech.

the fact that they can last multiple volleys is terrible.

I would reccommend to NOT allow armour to be doubled on light mechs. And furthermore, to scale the armour as follows:

20T armour multiplier: 1.00
25T: 1.05
30T: 1.10
35T: 1.15

40T: 1.25
45T: 1.35
50T: 1.45
55T: 1.55

60T: 1.75
65T: 1.85
70T: 1.95
75T: 2.00

80-100T: 2.00

that way mech armour scales. and light mechs have to now worry about not being able to take hits.

I think i will post this in suggestions.

Seems like it would be a snazy idea to try.

[Dr Killinger]

Test Monkey 13, on 21 January 2013 - 01:27 AM, said:

yes i will bring up the TT argument. but it is valid.

an ac20 hit anywhere on a commando blew it out of the water. LEG->torso->CT or arm->torso->CT. there just wasnt enough internal structure on the mech.

the fact that they can last multiple volleys is terrible.

I would reccommend to NOT allow armour to be doubled on light mechs. And furthermore, to scale the armour as follows:

20T armour multiplier: 1.00
25T: 1.05
30T: 1.10
35T: 1.15

40T: 1.25
45T: 1.35
50T: 1.45
55T: 1.55

60T: 1.75
65T: 1.85
70T: 1.95
75T: 2.00

80-100T: 2.00

that way mech armour scales. and light mechs have to now worry about not being able to take hits.

I think i will post this in suggestions.

Interesting, but I think we should wait until the netcode is fixed, then see how lights fare.

[Tompaboy]

Many of the light mechs drivers get to comfortable with lagshields and ecm and other
bonuses so when they meet someone who actually fires back they lack the skills to
compensate.

[Heiggwinie Halberstadt]

Ilwrath, on 21 January 2013 - 01:14 AM, said:

Setup Tag to always fire. Use that to see where the hitbox of the lights really are. Understand from that how broken lights are.
Add ECM to said lights so they are even harder to hit and immune to the only weapon that can take them down with ease.

Could you give a hint at how to do this?

[Felix]

Heiggwinie Halberstadt, on 21 January 2013 - 01:38 AM, said:

Could you give a hint at how to do this?

There are a few options, first you can set the tag to a weapon group, then hold that weapon groups fire key down for the duration of the match (I do this with my right mouse button) or you could assign it to a keyboard key and use a coin or rock to hold the button down.

Alternatively there are Macro keyboards like the G15 keyboard that allow you to push one key to hold a particular button down until you push another key

[Remarius]

The reason that armour change is a really bad idea is that as soon as netcode is fixed everyone in game would be in a DC atlas... EVERYONE.

Edited by Remarius, 21 January 2013 - 01:42 AM.

[Test Monkey 13]

you might thinks so. but the suggestion is to scale DOWN armour for lighter mechs. at 75tons and above there is no increase in armour everything below takes a hit.

[Blackclaw Apoch]

You guys are cute. You really can't kill lights? They have terrible armor, you should try shooting them!

[GODzillaGSPB]

You chose to make yourself part of the problem. Your right to complain about it is hereby revoked.