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Solo Players = Fodder For Paying Customers?


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#1 SlXSlXSlX

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 09:00 PM

Been awhile MWO. How are things?

Saw a thread today on your forum which eluded to the idea that 12v12 will be structured similiarly to the current 8v8 system, in that solo players will be used to supplement empty slots in matches between premades.. the example was 12 man premade vs a 4 man, with 8 random players. Can this possibly be true? Solo players... premades.... projected to still be toe to tow how ever many months away the 12 v 12s are? Q n A 30 seems to elude to that idea.

Is the theory that you need to placate the already paying masses, lest you lose them? It seems like this game will always be premades farming pubs, if this is the intended long term solution to having less than 12, and matching versus 12 man premades.

Assumption: Individuals in premade teams, are more likely to be paying customers. (maybe that is inaccurate??)

Sidenote: Saw a poll where 97% of forum posters thought the current premade system is just fine. That poll is a month or older now so, perhaps the mass opinion has changed. What I take away from that is, you will never win a premade related argument on these forums. This forum is by and large full of supporters of the current state of game. I am not saying "Don't waste your breath". More so I am saying, you are wasting your breath arguing against pub farming on this forum.

TL DR: Are solo-players playing MWO effectively fodder for the individuals who are currently considered "paying customers".... assuming said paying customers comprise the majority of premade teams?

#2 Team Leader

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 09:02 PM

Why do you think paying customers are grouped? And why don't you just quit already if you hate it so much...

#3 Eisenhorne

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 09:04 PM

Solo players are NOT effectively cannon fodder for premades, they are generally just worse players.

I'm sorry to say, but anyone who gets less than 100 damage, unless they are piloting a spider, is just a bad player, or a very new player. I'm confident I could take 8 random players with 1000+ drops each, put them in a group with no chat, drop them against an 8 man team in teamspeak with under 100 games, and the premade would be annihilated.

The key reason that premades dominate so hard over pugs is that after a couple hundred games, the pug players generally realize that they want to join a premade, do so, and then start annihilating people, not because the premade group makes the difference, but because they have much more experience at this point.

Given enough time, and possibly matchmaking keeping new players in their own little bubble, I'd imagine PUG gamers won't have nearly as much trouble with premades, because the average skill level of pug players will go up.

#4 SlXSlXSlX

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 09:07 PM

Anything to add besides "go play something else"?

View PostTeam Leader, on 22 January 2013 - 09:02 PM, said:

Why do you think paying customers are grouped?


If you think I am wrong, please say so. Feel free to hook it to some logic. Do you think most premades are made of casual gamers, new players, etc? If not then who?

Edited by SlXSlXSlX, 22 January 2013 - 09:11 PM.


#5 Ghogiel

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 09:10 PM

Ask anyone who premades in the pug cue. Very high win rates all round. The 8mans in the pug cue were even more hilarious for stomping.

As long as there is enough solo cannon fodder to go around, it'll keep putting teams out there to farm them.

#6 Eisenhorne

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 09:10 PM

View PostSlXSlXSlX, on 22 January 2013 - 09:07 PM, said:

Anything to add besides "go play something else"?



If you think I am wrong, please say so. Feel free to hook it to some logic. Do you think most premades are made of casual gamers, new players, etc? If not then who?



My Team, HHoD, accepts literally anyone who drops into our TS server to play games with (maybe not join, not sure what the requirements are) but anyone can just jump in, find a group with 3 or less players in it, and get stuck in.

At least half of our players are non-founders, and many of them CRUSH pug players with the best of us.

#7 M0oP0o

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 09:11 PM

As a solo paying customer, I find my self outside your argument.

But no really, until MWO gets some form of lobby/house/merc system where a solo player could play with a team that is not random (like hey, I remember that guy, he did not shoot me in the back). Or really anything we see in most online games that came out after 1998.

I for one will continue to play solo with no voice until something in game is done about it. Sorry if that makes "team players" mad, but this game will have to stand on its own.

#8 SlXSlXSlX

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 09:11 PM

View PostEisenhorne, on 22 January 2013 - 09:04 PM, said:

Solo players are NOT effectively cannon fodder for premades, they are generally just worse players.

Given enough time, and possibly matchmaking keeping new players in their own little bubble, I'd imagine PUG gamers won't have nearly as much trouble with premades, because the average skill level of pug players will go up.


So as time goes on, new players playing, will be better than those that tried it before hand? If a mass of new players started, wouldnt the average skill of solo players go down? Hard to rectify those two thoughts.

#9 M0oP0o

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 09:12 PM

Oh and after hundreds of matches I don't want to be in a premade, just saying.

#10 Mr Mantis

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 09:12 PM

Inaccurate generalization skewed into speculatory nonsense.
Furthermore ELO will fix any pug stomping to be had.

#11 Team Leader

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 09:14 PM

Your logic is all wrong. Grouped players BECOME paying players because they enjoy the game.

#12 yashmack

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 09:14 PM

ELO should help with this problem, as should the upcoming parts of community warfare that the devs will be bringing online over the next several months
It does seem like a pug stomp fest right now, but I play mostly pugs as my friends arent online at the same time I am, its mostly due to bad or no cooperation from the rest of the team
Better command and lance tools will be added soon (no idea what these will be) and hopefully those will help
Integrated voice chat would be nice, its there but I havent a clue how to make it work... lol

#13 M0oP0o

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 09:15 PM

View PostMr Mantis, on 22 January 2013 - 09:12 PM, said:

Inaccurate generalization skewed into speculatory nonsense.
Furthermore ELO will fix any pug stomping to be had.


Would it not just facilitate it? if pugs are mostly new players they would be at a net even score, nothing to base ELO on. All a premade would have to do is have a few routinely solo afk members (which adds to more stomp).

#14 SlXSlXSlX

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 09:18 PM

The solo player founder, definately fills little stereotypes. You are rare, and I appreciate you.

View PostMr Mantis, on 22 January 2013 - 09:12 PM, said:

ELO will fix any pug stomping to be had.


How?

Furthermore, what time limit do we place on the queue before mm accepts it cannot match 1 to 1 based on ELO math, due to a lack of comparable variables. We know a line has to be drawn somewhere.

Q n A 30 basicly states, 12 man premades, versus a 4 man w 8 randoms, or worse 12 randoms, is an accepted and intended part of mwo's future. How does this equate to "ELO will fix all"?

#15 Ghogiel

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 09:19 PM

View PostMr Mantis, on 22 January 2013 - 09:12 PM, said:

Inaccurate generalization skewed into speculatory nonsense.
Furthermore ELO will fix any pug stomping to be had.

>Elo solves all the things
>speculatory nonsense

#16 Kaspirikay

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 09:19 PM

nah, this game is fine without spending any money.

#17 SlXSlXSlX

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 09:19 PM

View PostSlXSlXSlX, on 22 January 2013 - 09:18 PM, said:

The solo player founder, definately fills little stereotypes. You are rare, and I appreciate you.



How?

Furthermore, what time limit do we place on the queue before mm accepts it cannot match 1 to 1 based on ELO math, due to a lack of comparable variables. We know a line has to be drawn somewhere.

Q n A 30 basicly states, 12 man premades, versus a 4 man w 8 randoms, or worse 12 randoms, is an accepted and intended part of mwo's future. How does this equate to "ELO will fix all"?


View PostTeam Leader, on 22 January 2013 - 09:14 PM, said:

Your logic is all wrong. Grouped players BECOME paying players because they enjoy the game.


You must have done a ton of premade matches before you decided to partake in the founders program then, right?

#18 Mr Mantis

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 09:20 PM

View PostM0oP0o, on 22 January 2013 - 09:15 PM, said:


Would it not just facilitate it? if pugs are mostly new players they would be at a net even score, nothing to base ELO on. All a premade would have to do is have a few routinely solo afk members (which adds to more stomp).



Your fears are indeed warranted, so far the dev team has been pretty quick to counter similar abuse. It will be interesting to see how the system is implemented.

#19 Team Leader

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 09:22 PM

I play solo the majority of the time. It's awful. The rare matches where I do try to find teammates are a lot more fun. Why don't you try having fun for once, Six? Instead of complaining about how un-fun this game is because of groups.why don't you TRY ONE OUT.

View PostSlXSlXSlX, on 22 January 2013 - 09:19 PM, said:



You must have done a ton of premade matches before you decided to partake in the founders program then, right?

I barely used the website before I became a founder, actually.

#20 machine

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 09:24 PM

sixsixsix you focus so hard on complaining all the time what gives.





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