138 replies to this topic

[Tex1013]

so, the glorious netcode fix/mitigator came out today! Huzzah!! the collision system is coming back someday...as soon as we figure out what we want it to do...HUZZAH!!

we can kill lights again!! huzz..wait

If lights have light armor, mobility was their primary survival advantage, and given the extraordinarily thin content as far as objectives and strategic support, lights were fast hit-and-strike brawlers or ECM platforms...what will lights become now?

I like light mechs. I think it's important that they have some role in the mechwarrior universe beyond "that mech that you start with and try to get out of as fast as possible into a bigger chassis and never look back"

Light's should be vulnerable - I'll be the first one to grant that their unprecedented survivability under the previous lag-shield issues relegated them to surprisingly effective brawlers. Light mechs could reasonably duel with much, much heavier mechs, or sweep through large companies of enemy mechs, marking/reconning targets before running out again

sadly, I feel they *needed* this for the current form of balance - with no significant recon ability thanks to the limited tactical intelligence features of the game, and no significant role in objective completion, thanks to the really thin objectives design, the only real feature for any mech is killing other mechs at the moment, and all that varied was *how* the mechs killed each other - devestating slugfests with walls of weaponry, or light dodgy harassing mechs with wolfpack type tactics

now that lights are easier to hit, the field currently lies considerably more in favor of heavier chassis.

I'd really like to encourage the development of more detailed tactical intelligence features, larger map design, and more complex objectives so that lights and fast mediums, and probably mediums in general, can still have a significant role to play.

[Biglead]

Padding for my KDR?










Sorry, you'll get no sympathy from me. A good light pilot will now be defined as the one staying out of harms way while feeding intel to his team and not the bum rushing, assault eating exploiter.

Edited by Biglead, 23 January 2013 - 07:00 PM.

[Krazy Kat]

Recon scoutinglights with TAG and BAP could become more important. If NARC was improved, it would be a great tool for lights too.

[PeekaBoo I C Ju]

the role is whatever you make it, stop assuming any chassis type has a specific role. Customization is great thing and i love the flexibility, if this was a strictly role based game like STO and WOW i wouldn't play it....those kind of games get boring quick

[Vite Ramen]

Fixed netcode means lights will do recon, they will spot priority targets for the team. They will harass and skirmish when required, and they will flank when opportune. They will have to deliver proper hit-and-run maneuvers to stay alive, and they will no longer be able to heavily engage most of the enemy team for most of the match while remaining relatively unscathed. This is how I would have envisioned the role of lights. They won't singlehandedly take down heavier mechs on their own anymore (or will have to go at it a lot more carefully now). They will provide intel (and TAG) and fire *support* (less firepower, but their speed will still allow them to deliver that firepower exactly where it hurts the most) rather than simply firepower. A full volley of a light on an Atlas' back torso can still hurt a lot.


Especially with the bigger maps coming, lights will still be extremely important.

Edited by Llyranor, 23 January 2013 - 07:03 PM.

[Terran123rd]

Recon, harassment, sneaking, and ankle biting. Some will be good brawlers, some will be good command or electronic warfare platforms, some will be good sneak thieves and back stabbers.

Edited by Terran123rd, 23 January 2013 - 07:02 PM.

[Davers]

I am perfectly having them suck for a little while as payback for months of being terrifying.

[Bhael Fire]

I think the real problem is a lack of complex mission parameters. Gameplay is paper thin right now as far as tactical depth and objectives go.

Once they incorporate more objectives other than the redundant "kill/cap" objective, lights will serve a more useful purpose other than being just an annoyance.

Edited by Bhael Fire, 23 January 2013 - 07:03 PM.

[SinnerX]

They still have extremely small profiles and high speeds, so they can effectively scout from a distance. They just can't run directly through the middle of a team any more.

I also foresee that LRMs will become a major thing again with all the heavier chassis running around, so a light with ECM can get behind enemy lines and jam up their fire support. Assuming it isn't a trio of D-DCs, which I also foresee returning in force.

[Like a Sir]

I could be wrong on this, I only played a light for a short while in closed beta. But I do recall that there was a time back then, when the lag shield wasn't bad at all and lights could get 1-2 shotted.

Some really good light pilots I saw did some good scouting and spotting. There were the ones that found LRM boats and harassed killed the hell out of those. And I think the ones that impressed me the most, were the ones that would "shadow" the heavys and assaults. Those were rare but they were awesome, they wouldn't circle you relying on their amazing lag shield skills, they would get behind you and match your speed, and keep moving so they would never be able to even see them, you really needed teammates then.

Now since then, the damage you could do got increased (better heat dissipation) , so I don't see why good pilots couldn't do that again. Now the A7S clowns that only knew how to run around in circles... well sucks to be you. Just wait till collisions are brought back, all of you will be crying how terrible lights are, and making threads "why run anything other then assault mechs"

[Hillslam]

I completely disagree with the OT. And agree with many of the following posts above.

They have the same role they had before in CB: scouting, tagging, identifying, flanking, capping. And they can do all that from the flanks and sides and at stand off ranges.

They just cant flit into the battleline with the warwagons and shrug off fire like raindrops.

Lights are akin to Frigates, Escorts and Destroyers in the battle formations of naval combat. They should never have been in the battleline with the heavy guns of the battleships and battlecruisers. And the fact that this game let them be there was a glaring gaping huge hole that needed fixed.


I also think that the natural progression of this fixed situation will be toward light pilots moving into the medium mech ranks.

Edited by Hillslam, 23 January 2013 - 07:09 PM.

[Calimaw]

I average 30 ms latency, I had no lag shield to speak of (unless the enemy themselves lagged). I'm not sure what would happen with collisions, my guess is that at the begining of a match several lights will be trash canned as friendlies walk over them.

as an exclusive COM-2D (I've tried others, don't care for them) pilot I don't find collisions would be a problem is the maps were larger, and less congested.

Think of the classic "SNAKE" game, more room; less collisions.

[Magik0012]

OP must not have been (or not remember) Closed Beta, when, even with so-so net code and knock-downs, a *GOOD* light pilot could still own heavies and assaults. I was never and still am not that kind of pilot, but I watched it happen a LOT. Lights will be just fine, you'll just have to play them correctly.

[N0MAD]

Their Role has always been there, to scout, find the enemy force, engage other lights, but instead they have been used as brawlers that engage groups of much heavier mechs.Light pilots were always warned that their stat padding lagmechs would see their day now i expect many post like this. As i stated above the role of the Light has alway been there.

[Arthel]

TLDR all of it, light mechs are cool, but the lagshield made it a pain in the arse to fight them, the removal of collision didnt help this. Light mechs roles have always been to scout, spot, and support anyway, not run up to mechs and pray the lag will save them. And jesus fk. we have so many light mechs wheres my damn Highlander???

Edited by Arthel, 23 January 2013 - 07:10 PM.

[Like a Sir]

Peekaboo I C JU, on 23 January 2013 - 07:00 PM, said:

the role is whatever you make it, stop assuming any chassis type has a specific role. Customization is great thing and i love the flexibility, if this was a strictly role based game like STO and WOW i wouldn't play it....those kind of games get boring quick

Ermm, if I am understanding you correctly, I'll have to disagree. Customization can only take you so far. Yes you do have some options, but roles are very much alive here... You can only stick so much armor and weapons on a 30 ton chassis (only so much s...tuff you can fit in a 5 pound bag). I also don't see you being a very effective scout in an atlas, unless you are a part of 2 Steiner lances.

[Screech]

Don't worry about lights they will be fine. Improvements like this will just bring people back to lights who are playing other classes. If lights were killing you all the time before, they still are going to. Just now you probably won't get to see them as much.

[Tennex]

they can still beat assaults and heavies in a 1vs1. not because of lagshiled, but because of speed. which is where they should be.

[Dudeman3k]

Lights should never think its okay to engage heavier opponents without the element of surprise.. and with so many new-comers already used to the lag-shield, it's understandable they might have forgotten lights were never meant to fight on equal terms (they can, if piloted properly).

During Closed Beta we had Knock Downs.... and that REALLY showed you who the skilled pilots were. You only dare'd pilot a light if you were competent in your piloting and disciplined in your route planning. They were winning force of your team because with the evasive game in mind, they played the information warfare card, and really helped the team come out on top. Since the removal of knock down, you started to see a lot of brawling jenners.... and that's when the issues started. The lights went from the most skilled required, to none at all, just strafe and win.

Light's will become what they were built to be, fragile to the unskillful.

[mekabuser]

Tex1013, on 23 January 2013 - 06:53 PM, said:

the only real feature for any mech is killing other mechs at the moment, and all that varied was *how* the mechs killed each other - devestating slugfests with walls of weaponry, or light dodgy harassing mechs with wolfpack type tactics
i

and what is the problem with this?
Seriously, role of lights? your joking right.