55 replies to this topic

[TheSteelRhino]

Hello PGI,

I was just wondering what your planned Service Level was regarding Premium time and server availability?

Due to your recent issues, my last day or so of premium time was..well basically unusable. And of course I'm out.

I do understand you have maintenance windows and am discussing times other than planned outages.

Since we are paying customers do you have plans for providing a Service Level Agreement to your customers and restoring Premium Time lost due to issues such as this?

I realize it's currently BETA so I assume no (and will now adjust spending accordingly) but once you are in release do you plan on providing excellent levels of service to your customers?

Sorry, but I'm an IT guy, and downtime over 10 minutes gets a service credit in my world (other than planned/scheduled maintenances) So I tend to hold others to the same standard.

Regards

[Bilbo]

Last night's downtime was caused by a DDoS attack on a third party.

[Vassago Rain]

Bilbo, on 21 February 2013 - 10:58 AM, said:

Last night's downtime was caused by a DDoS attack on a third party.

So?

[Bilbo]

Vassago Rain, on 21 February 2013 - 11:01 AM, said:

So?

How are you going to hold PGI responsible for external routing issues. Kind of like saying, I forgot to pay my internet bill and wasn't able to connect to your servers, please refund my premium time.

[SI The Joker]

Please see the Terms of Service:

Quote

Internet-Based Limitations. Your use of the IGP Offerings depends on the Internet, including networks, cabling, facilities and equipment that is not in our control; accordingly (a) all representations made by us (if any, see below) regarding access performance, speeds, reliability, availability, use or consistency of the IGP Offerings are on a “commercially reasonable efforts” basis, ( we cannot guarantee any minimum level regarding such performance, speed, reliability, availability, use or consistency, and (c) data, messages, information or materials sent over the Internet may not be completely private, and your anonymity is not guaranteed.

[PurpleNinja]

Bilbo, on 21 February 2013 - 10:58 AM, said:

Last night's downtime was caused by a DDoS attack on a third party.

Chinese hackers.

[Major Scumbag]

Are you asking for added time for 10 minutes of downtime? Like mentioned its in the TOS. Sorry to say but, this is like the group suing Subway cause they only got 11 inches instead of 12 inches. Saying it was world changing and could stop the rotation of the earth. Unless they get 12 inches. It happens. But honestly its 10 minutes and I havent seen any downtime then this since I been playing. Besides the scheduled downtime. I am in gaming industry and it is standred practice to have TOS or user agreements that there is unscheduled not be compensated. It is out of the companies good efforts to give it. But I only seen that in a monthly sub setup. Not everybody here pays for premium time. This is free to play with options to pay. If they give you some compensation. Then you are one of the lucky ones. I didnt feel the time down was and issue and was surprised how fast it was back up. I only was down about 10 minutes. Not sure if others were effected with longer times.

Edited by Major Scumbag, 21 February 2013 - 11:19 AM.

[jay35]

Or alleviate the entire matter by simply having the Premium timer only run when the client is actually logged into the server (so PGI can still control the timer and ensure no hacking). You can't play without being logged in, so it works both ways and benefits both parties equally. This method alleviates the issues on both sides, user and PGI, that can cause unexpected or undesired rundown of Premium Time, and the client already has a built-in auto logout idle timer, which alleviates the "I forgot and left it logged in" concern as well. It really is the best solution all around.

[PurpleNinja]

Major Scumbag, on 21 February 2013 - 11:09 AM, said:

Are you asking for added time for 10 minutes of downtime? Like mentioned its in the TOS. Sorry to say but, this is like the group suing Subway cause they only got 11 inches instead of 12 inches. Saying it was world changing and could stop the rotation of the earth. Unless they get 12 inches. It happens. But honestly its 10 minutes and I havent seen any downtime then this since I been playing. Besides the scheduled downtime.

You sir, do not honour your name.

[TheSteelRhino]

ok..wow..you guys are really narrowly focused.

so the issues over the past 2 DAYS have got me thinking. I'm not holding them responsible for DDoS attack.

But if there is a bad patch, or a server outage not caused by an internet routing, or malicious attack, I would like to know what Service Level PGI is planning on providing?

It's a fair question. I am in IT, and if there is more than X minutes of downtime, caused by a problem by us or in our DC then there is a service credit. When I buy premium time, I am "buying time" at a certain service level. Right? (I get availability to play with extra cbills and XP in exchange for MC which I had to pay for)

Obviously scheduled maintenance windows are excluded.

I realize this is BETA and doesn't apply here, but when it goes LIVE I would like to know. Assuming they want ppl to buy premium time.

It's a Fair question.

Regards.

Edited by Rhinehardt Ritter, 21 February 2013 - 11:14 AM.

[Vassago Rain]

Bilbo, on 21 February 2013 - 11:04 AM, said:

How are you going to hold PGI responsible for external routing issues. Kind of like saying, I forgot to pay my internet bill and wasn't able to connect to your servers, please refund my premium time.

Because he paid for something that they couldn't provide, and I'd expect any company that's not sleazy russians to simply give me the hours I lose when their servers go down.

Even my ISP does that.

[Bilbo]

Vassago Rain, on 21 February 2013 - 11:12 AM, said:

Because he paid for something that they couldn't provide, and I'd expect any company that's not sleazy russians to simply give me the hours I lose when their servers go down.

Even my ISP does that.

Their servers didn't go down, you just may not have been able to get to them due to external forces.

[SI The Joker]

jay35, on 21 February 2013 - 11:10 AM, said:

Or alleviate the entire matter by simply having the Premium timer only run when the client is actually logged into the server (so PGI can still control the timer and ensure no hacking). You can't play without being logged in, so it works both ways and benefits both parties equally. This method alleviates the issues on both sides, user and PGI, that can cause unexpected or undesired rundown of Premium Time, and the client already has a built-in auto logout idle timer, which alleviates the "I forgot and left it logged in" concern as well. It really is the best solution all around.

So using this logic, the warranty on my car should only be ticking while I'm driving it... I should only be paying car insurance for the time that I'm actually in the car... and the bill for cable television should be nearly zero because even though I'm provided with hundreds of channels... I only watch one or two of them.... and those channels aren't even "premium" channels... so I should only be paying for what I use.

Aaaaaaand monkeys might fly out of my butt.

[Megalosauroid]

Bilbo, on 21 February 2013 - 11:16 AM, said:

Their servers didn't go down, you just may not have been able to get to them due to external forces.

ITT we pedantically avoid the issue with technicalities.

[jay35]

SI The Joker, on 21 February 2013 - 11:18 AM, said:

So using this logic, the warranty on my car should only be ticking while I'm driving it...

It's not at all the same thing as a warranty. Not an apples to apples comparison by any stretch. In fact, the warranty is what the topic poster is asking for (called an SLA, or service level agreement).
And that said, even most warranties have a mileage allotment, so one has to be really obtuse to attempt to use even warranties as an argument against premium time only burning when you're actually using the product.

Quote

and the bill for cable television should be nearly zero because even though I'm provided with hundreds of channels.

Actually, many people take issue with how cable TV is billed, precisely because of that issue. It is also what led to the rise in pay-per-view, rental services, and premium channels with specific content.
That said, again, it's not an apples to apples comparison, because you're talking about paying for 200 of something while only being able to consume one at a time. We're talking about paying for something when we're not consuming any of it at all.

Edited by jay35, 21 February 2013 - 11:25 AM.

[Major Scumbag]

PurpleNinja, on 21 February 2013 - 11:11 AM, said:

You sir, do not honour your name.

But I try very hard to

[SI The Joker]

jay35, on 21 February 2013 - 11:20 AM, said:

It's not at all the same thing as a warranty. Not an apples to apples comparison by any stretch.
And that said, even most warranties have a mileage allotment, so one has to be really obtuse to attempt to use even warranties as an argument against premium time only burning when you're actually using the product.

Mmmm not so much. 50,000 miles or X number of years.

I don't drive much and therefore my warranty never gets close to 50,000 miles. So what about the 15,000+ miles that I never get protection from because X number of years ran out?

Nitpick all you want, the logic is the same. PGI has already shown that they are very gracious when they are the cause of an outage. Or did you forget what... 2 weeks ago when they gave out 4 hours of free premium time because of "The Garth Incident", which WAS their fault?

Edited by SI The Joker, 21 February 2013 - 11:23 AM.

[jay35]

SI The Joker, on 21 February 2013 - 11:23 AM, said:

Mmmm not so much. 50,000 miles or X number of years.

I don't drive much and therefore my warranty never gets close to 50,000 miles. So what about the 15,000+ miles that I never get protection from because X number of years ran out?

Nitpick all you want, the logic is the same. PGI has already shown that they are very gracious when they are the cause of an outage. Or did you forget what... 2 weeks ago when they gave out 4 hours of free premium time because of "The Garth Incident", which WAS their fault?

You're still missing the point. Service itself is not a warranty. You're trying to compare a service to a warranty. That doesn't make sense and is not a valid comparison. A warranty is used to guarantee a level of service. We already have the service, it's called premium time. What the topic poster is asking for is information as to what type of warranty PGI will offer when the product is officially launched. That warranty is called a Service Level Agreement (SLA).
He's not begging for anything, nor am I. In fact, I'm only even responding to provide the correct solution (premium time should only run when the client is logged in), and to point out the fallacies of your attempted comparisons.

Edited by jay35, 21 February 2013 - 11:28 AM.

[Yemo]

Vassago Rain, on 21 February 2013 - 11:12 AM, said:

Because he paid for something that they couldn't provide, and I'd expect any company that's not sleazy russians to simply give me the hours I lose when their servers go down.

Even my ISP does that.

Funnily, even in wot (greedy russians) you get an additional day of premium, if you have premium at the moment the servers are taken down for a major patch.

Edited by Yemo, 21 February 2013 - 11:27 AM.

[Vassago Rain]

Bilbo, on 21 February 2013 - 11:16 AM, said:

Their servers didn't go down, you just may not have been able to get to them due to external forces.

Same thing.

If they won't be good enough providers to throw in some extra hours for the ones we've lost, I don't think I'll be a good enough customer to purchase things in their game. Thank you very much.