142 replies to this topic

[KinLuu]

Welcome to the world of competitive gaming.

I see you are new here. Have a cup of minmax-soup, before you go back to scrubing around.

[Kunae]

Pkunk, on 28 February 2013 - 12:49 PM, said:

Hence the question if elo is player based or mech based

It's player->weight class based.

Each player has a separate ELO for each weight class.

[Adridos]

3rdworld, on 28 February 2013 - 12:42 PM, said:

Now you get to play the cookie cutter hell we have enjoyed.

Uhm... it's not our fault you ruin the fun for yourselves. It was your decision and yours alone.

[Xie Belvoule]

Pkunk, on 28 February 2013 - 12:31 PM, said:

I've seen some players state that elo has been enabled alhough I haven't seen this in the patch notes. It seems likely because my matches are becoming increasingly difficult. But not mostly because the players are more skilled but because most matches it's cheeze build galore. I hardly see anything except ravens 3L, Atlas D-DC, trip uac/5 Muromets, splatcats, splatstalkers and gausspults..

Is elo indeed enabled and is this the result? Are there more players experiencing this?

[Stealthsfury]

This is what worried me about ELO. You know that 8 mans are all serious buisness but now if you even think of running solo you better be prepared to literally kill half the enemy team. Any mech lacking in pilot xp or an essential item like double HS keep it in your mechbay because you will be killing your team. If you want to level a mech then your only chance is a four man with some decent builds beside yourself. ELO assumes you will be playing at your best so not being optimized to do so will severely hamper your team.

[3rdworld]

Adridos, on 28 February 2013 - 12:53 PM, said:

Uhm... it's not our fault you ruin the fun for yourselves. It was your decision and yours alone.

What?

We don't dictate the meta.

[Iwaslost]

Bfvmg, on 28 February 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:

So what is NOT considered a cheesebuild?

I mean comeon. It seems like everything these days is a cheese build???

AS muchas I hate it, I dont even think the phract-3D in poptarter mode and 2PPC/1Gauss, to me is a cheesebuild. It take skill to target while floating up and down.

The raven-31 with ECM, 2 SSRM and 3 lasers is a standard build...not a cheese build.
Atlas-DDC with ECM and AC20/gauss/2UAC5, 2LL, 3 LRM/SRM is standard, not cheese.
While I hate them with a fricken passion, the LRM boat is not cheese.
Miromets with 3UAC5 is not cheese.

So what, to you all, constitutes a cheese build?
What the definition, and who makes the determination that build is "Cheese"?

According to the forums a cheese build is something that people find easy to use and/or do well in.

[MangoBogadog]

I haven't seen a gaussapault for ages.

Can't say cheese bothers me although I do hate Raven 3Ls

As NLP said, too many mechs are being called cheese builds.

[Ghogiel]

Bfvmg, on 28 February 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:

So what, to you all, constitutes a cheese build?

Boats. Any boat. Also ECM changes any mech into cheese.

short list:

3L ravens
AC20 cats
Splatcats
gausscats
streakmandos
3D jumphracts
DDCs
PPC STKs
LRM boats

[Kunae]

Ghogiel, on 28 February 2013 - 01:01 PM, said:

Boats. Any boat. Also ECM changes any mech into cheese.

short list:

3L ravens
AC20 cats
Splatcats
gausscats
streakmandos
3D jumphracts
DDCs
PPC STKs
LRM boats

... So, Cicada-3M's are "cheeze" builds?

[ElLocoMarko]

Whine whine whine. Min/Maxing is optimizing and it is part of every game... Find your play style, do some research and then buy that "cheese" build. You might find that it really isn't all you had imagined. Or you'll develop skill with that loadout and fall in love. These are just pre-optimized loadouts from obsessive compulsive types. They are doing the work for you.

Last night a laser stalker single-shot me at full health. (Full laser alpha through my rear side torso to cause an ammo explosion) Good on him. Nice shot. I should either move that ammo or never let someone see my back. Lesson learned.

Later on in my un-splatapult (LRM and SRM) I still managed to dominate a very healthy laser stalker because of terrain. Does that pilot think back on the game "standing in a U-shaped building doesn't work when my opponent has jump jets" or did he go on the forums and complain about dying to a cheese build that, had he looked at his hud, was really more of a processed cheese-food than actual cheese?

[Ghogiel]

Kunae, on 28 February 2013 - 01:02 PM, said:

... So, Cicada-3M's are "cheeze" builds?

If you add ECM and PPCs. Sure is.

[KinLuu]

Ghogiel, on 28 February 2013 - 01:03 PM, said:

If you add ECM and PPCs. Sure is.

Ghogiel, on 28 February 2013 - 01:01 PM, said:

Boats. Any boat. Also ECM changes any mech into cheese.

short list:

3L ravens
AC20 cats
Splatcats
gausscats
streakmandos
3D jumphracts
DDCs
PPC STKs
LRM boats

So basically everything that is not a trollbuild is cheese.

[Pkunk]

Well maybe cheesebuild wasn't the right word. Maybe I mean super solid builds. I dunno.. I really don't care about what is a cheezebuild or not..

But it seems I am the only one who sees this drastic difference in mechs on the field? Cause that was my initial question

[Bfvmg]

Iwaslost, on 28 February 2013 - 12:58 PM, said:

According to the forums a cheese build is something that people find easy to use and/or do well in.

By That definition my Founders Jenner and Atlas are both cheese. Also my Cent -A, -D, and -AL are all cheese.
Also my Dragons -1C, 5N, and Flame.

Hmm. I think that most others in here can also claim a mech that is easy and they do well in...

Ghogiel, on 28 February 2013 - 01:01 PM, said:

Boats. Any boat. Also ECM changes any mech into cheese.

short list:

3L ravens
AC20 cats
Splatcats
gausscats
streakmandos
3D jumphracts
DDCs
PPC STKs
LRM boats

Oh My God I HOPE you are kidding!

The bottom line is that no mech does great against everything. A mech may be better "All around" but it can still be beat and countered. That is the point. If one mech was "Everything" then everyone would be running it. Instead, we see almost all the mechs on a daily basis. Its comes down to personal style, taste, and skill. We claim all these mechs are "cheese" and would never run it. I think that's due to personal distaste and dislike, rather than an OP mech.

And everyone claims that the 3L is OP. And that may be true. But I can and have taken a Jenner-D and beaten a 3L. In fact, most of us can beat almost any other mech with any mech in our bay. It comes down to circumstances, skill and yes, even some luck.

How about we quit complaining about Cheese, and learn how to fight the different mechs we may encounter..

Edited by Bfvmg, 28 February 2013 - 01:16 PM.

[Mawai]

ELO was enabled with the deployment of Matchmaker stage 3.

As for "cheese" builds ... I don't know ... there is a fair share of the so called cheese builds but for the most part in the games I have been playing in these are a minority. 3L's and D-DC's ... but also various Catapults/Jenners/Hunchbacks/Cents/Awesomes and Stalkers.Some Commandos and Raven-4x also ... I am not sure whether the Ravens are folks leveling them up or just that they like that variant ... I would guess the former.

[3rdworld]

Pkunk, on 28 February 2013 - 01:06 PM, said:

Well maybe cheesebuild wasn't the right word. Maybe I mean super solid builds. I dunno.. I really don't care about what is a cheezebuild or not..

But it seems I am the only one who sees this drastic difference in mechs on the field? Cause that was my initial question

The meta game is now being forced onto pugs like it has been in 8s for a while.

[Ghogiel]

KinLuu, on 28 February 2013 - 01:05 PM, said:

So basically everything that is not a trollbuild is cheese.

trollbuild, as in trolling your own team in a raven 4x with machineguns kinda trolling? yeah basically.

It's like any mech that doesn't have a very mixed loadout that people might get buttmad about playing against. The more gimmicky, the more fermented the cheese.

[KinLuu]

3rdworld, on 28 February 2013 - 01:07 PM, said:

The meta game is now being forced onto pugs like it has been in 8s for a while.

Only on good players, the bads need not worry. Their lbx-trollbuilds will still work at their elo.

[Ialti]

My matches are actually getting easier
but there do seem to be more A1's, DDC's, and dakkadakkadakkaphracts...

Edit to include this insanity:

Ghogiel, on 28 February 2013 - 01:01 PM, said:

Boats. Any boat. Also ECM changes any mech into cheese.

short list:

3L ravens
AC20 cats
Splatcats
gausscats
streakmandos
3D jumphracts
DDCs
PPC STKs
LRM boats

...Soo... everyone who gets settled into a build they like and has the capability of killing you or folks like you off is now running a cheese build? I disagree, good sir. You are horribly, utterly wrong.

Edited by Ialti, 28 February 2013 - 01:13 PM.