53 replies to this topic

[Zaptruder]

So with the impending release of the consumable items that are only purchasable with MC, the game has crossed over the pay 2 win boundary.

Previously it sat firmly in the 'pay to reduce grind', 'pay for side grades' and 'pay for cosmetic differences' categories of the F2P market.

Even if you think the current implementation isn't too bad; 1+2 = 3 seems fairly well balanced, especially when they are other CBill only modules that take the same slots - it is important to understand that this is simply the initial probe. IGP (Infinite Game Publishing; the money men behind PGI) are testing the waters with this move as to how tolerant their customer base are towards these sorts of P2W mechanics.

If we consent through silence and inaction and apathy; we can expect things like pay for ammo (You want slug ammo for the LBX? Well, you can pay for it!) and pay to register guilds and units in the future, among other things.

From the Point of View of IGP; they're acting in a sane if callous manner. Test the waters and see where money can be squeezed from this rock. Our investors and owners need a return on investment after all.

In that sense, if we as a playerbase don't want a trend where the publishing company exploits this property to the detriment of the long term future of this game and community; we'll need to show them in viable metric driven terms that we wholly disagree with their approach to monetization.

So, if you agree with these points, I encourage you to take a break from the game for a week from the launch of the consumables on the 19th of March. Sure; download the patch and test out the changes. But after that, just go out and smell the flowers. I think Sim City V has just launch, and so has the new Tomb Raider. The TressFX hair stuff looks pretty amazing.

If we don't signal our displeasure to the publishers in as clear a manner as possible, then as a playerbase... we will only have ourselves to blame when this game is driven into the P2W muck.

If you agree, keep the thread bumped; get the message out there.


We've got plenty of money to spend on your game PGI/IGP... but we're not interested in a game or system that can be unbalanced through external payments.

This isn't a post to rile against the idea of consumables; they can be implemented fairly in a manner that *isn't* pay to win - by simply making the Tier 3 consumables available for purchase with C-Bills, the game mechanic falls squarely back into the area of "Pay to Reduce Grind".

The sit out should happen on the day of the release of the consumables; 19th of March. This is done largely to gather up increased player awareness on the issue.

Edited by Zaptruder, 05 March 2013 - 05:39 AM.

[Chavette]

Thats what I'll be doing, and play when its gone, if it never goes away, so will I.

Edited by Chavette, 05 March 2013 - 03:30 AM.

[Stry]

Well put, well said, and I whole heartily agree. I don't mind the pay to grind thing, I really don't. I dropped $120 on this, two $60 Triple-A Titles twice over, not because I got some stupid golden banner, or mech's or this or that. Just wanted to support a dev bringing a game back to life with passion and vigor I decided with my wallet where I wanted my money to go. Flushing Coolant for money is nothing more than flushing money down the toilet.

[Paula Fry]

I agree in alot of points. Till now i allways said that this Game had the best and fairest Paymodel of all F2Ps if tested this far.

But with this move they did a huge Step in the wrong direction. Cause now Paying will give you an advantage non Payers wont

have. The Hero Mechs and Paintjobs are ok. NP. But this is wrong in so many ways. It is one of the Main reasons i play this

Game. That you can achive allmost every thing with Mc and Time....Now this balance is blown.

[Grand Ayatollah Kerensky]

I'm just not going to top up my MC until this change is reversed and PGI publicly apologizes for lying to the community and shattering our good will. If it seriously unbalances gameplay, I will stop playing all together. PGI swore up and down that the game wouldn't be pay to win and we all bought that lie and bought founders packs.

[TexAce]

I really really REALLY don't know how all the forums can go beserk over such a small little thing like the consumables.
It's ONE coolant for gods sake, it won't change at all how we play. Its a "oh ****" button you can use once.

Nobody said they aren't considering the opinions stated in the forums but come on, we have so many great additions this months and you b!tch over such a small thing totally neglecting all the nice things to come (and for me artillery and coolant flush are nothing bad at all).

This is the BEST mechwarrior game ever (for me at least) and you are only discouraging the devs with your constant and totally irrational QQing over something you didn't even have tried out yet.

Yes the devs said they won't do it, IN THE WAY IT WAS PROPOSED TO THEM.
Like most humans people think about their decisions and if it was a good one and REACT to it. As will the devs do.

If you really are leaving because of a damn coolant then please bye bye!

What if they make the tier 3 coolant require 2 slots? Would all of you suddenly be quiet?
This change would require 2 seconds of time for the coders and I'm sure the devs would do it if they see it as appropriate.

For me the introduction of new things by PGI goes like this:
They announce something -> forum QQs
They release it -> half the forum QQs
They alter it -> quarter forum QQs
They alter it even further -> a small neglectible percentage of the forum QQs

What this means for me is: THEY ARE LISTENING

So shut the ef up and relax already. You are worse than YouTube commenters.

Edited by TexAss, 05 March 2013 - 03:45 AM.

[Tarman]

Works for me, I'm barely interested in patching at this point let alone playing, oldschool MW fan regardless. I have plenty of gaming besides this. I'd rather have no game than a crappy moneyvacuum version of this franchise. Like watching a cute girl you knew in high school ending up as one of those before/after heroin-junkie/****** mugshot pictures.

And as I said in another thread that's still open and unmerged, I'm seeing far too many people who never whine or cry about anything ever in the game throwing down WTF posts for this to be a small deal.

[KinLuu]

PGI said they will stay clear of p2w. I would have never bought into the founders programm, if I had known this will be a korean style p2w grab. I feel cheated.

[Kassatsu]

Seeing as how we start with subpar equipment (800 meter sensor range without upgrades? really?) and have to grind/pay to get even standard-issue level equipment, this update surprises me less than I thought it would. On the other hand, I'll happily oblige this thread and not even play for the next week. After all, Steam usually has some great deals on games for less than I've spent on this game and I've hardly spent anything, mostly due to a lack of funds, though now it's more out of principle.

[Naelobo]

This isn't pay to win. Put your tinfoil hats on

[PurpleNinja]

Just when they started to go in the right direction...

Won't quit playing, but won't spend any more money on this.

[ShadowDarter]

No taking a week from the game means that honest folks that understood that this game would be equal in all terms except for the pay for convenience have admitted that that MWO is now P2W..

Frankly i will not be one that goes into the dark without a fight.

[Kassatsu]

Arkikim, on 05 March 2013 - 03:49 AM, said:

This isn't pay to win. Put your tinfoil hats on

No, it's pay for a direct advantage, and is one tiny step away from P2W. No tin foil hat necessary, sorry.

TexAss, on 05 March 2013 - 03:40 AM, said:

What if they make the tier 3 coolant require 2 slots? Would all of you suddenly be quiet?
This change would require 2 seconds of time for the coders and I'm sure the devs would do it if they see it as appropriate.

I actually wouldn't mind that, provided the MC one then gave two uses equivalent to the level 1 and 2 CB coolants. Which might as well be changed to buying those modules in bulk with MC.

As they are now, assuming you use them at 100% heat, rudimentary math tells me you'll end up at 67.5% heat, while the MC one leaves you at 65%. This may sound negligible, and in most situations it probably is, but what about that time you're brawling an enemy with an identical build and that extra 2.5% lets you let off another shot before your enemy does?

Edited by Kassatsu, 05 March 2013 - 03:54 AM.

[ssm]

Quote

I really really REALLY don't know how all the forums can go beserk over such a small little thing like the consumables.

this.

Also, if devs actually cared for every tantrum thrown on forums after every little change they make to the game, it'll soon be unplayable.

[Pat Kell]

the tier 3 consumables you mentioned will be purchaseable with c-bills, and with MC. Not saying I agree with consumables, in fact I am really concerned that this may signal the end for me but lets get the facts right. I know your main concern is buying them with MC but you act like you won't also be able to buy them with c-bills and from what I have read in the dfev posts, that is oincorrect. lets just all calm down for a minute, wait for the patch, maybe play just a bit before we jump to any conclusions based on half truths.

[Tarman]

Pat Kell, on 05 March 2013 - 03:57 AM, said:

the tier 3 consumables you mentioned will be purchaseable with c-bills, and with MC. Not saying I agree with consumables, in fact I am really concerned that this may signal the end for me but lets get the facts right. I know your main concern is buying them with MC but you act like you won't also be able to buy them with c-bills and from what I have read in the dfev posts, that is oincorrect. lets just all calm down for a minute, wait for the patch, maybe play just a bit before we jump to any conclusions based on half truths.

No.

http://mwomercs.com/...10-consumables/

T3 module is MC-only. Running an equal-effect set of lower tier modules means same performance but losing a module slot, which could be filled by a similar T3 Arty or any other module. Freeplayer or not-wealthy player can never reach the effectiveness of a cash-flush player running the same chassis, even mastered. It's literally not doable for them because T3 kit is for the IRL walletmonies only.

Bad precedent is bad.

[Kassatsu]

Pat Kell, on 05 March 2013 - 03:57 AM, said:

the tier 3 consumables you mentioned will be purchaseable with c-bills, and with MC. Not saying I agree with consumables, in fact I am really concerned that this may signal the end for me but lets get the facts right. I know your main concern is buying them with MC but you act like you won't also be able to buy them with c-bills and from what I have read in the dfev posts, that is oincorrect. lets just all calm down for a minute, wait for the patch, maybe play just a bit before we jump to any conclusions based on half truths.

Try again. Nowhere does it say the tier 3 consumables are purchasable with C-bills.

[Chavette]

TexAss, on 05 March 2013 - 03:40 AM, said:

I really really REALLY don't know how all the forums can go beserk over such a small little thing like the consumables.
It's ONE coolant for gods sake, it won't change at all how we play. Its a "oh ****" button you can use once.

Nobody said they aren't considering the opinions stated in the forums but come on, we have so many great additions this months and you b!tch over such a small thing totally neglecting all the nice things to come (and for me artillery and coolant flush are nothing bad at all).

This is the BEST mechwarrior game ever (for me at least) and you are only discouraging the devs with your constant and totally irrational QQing over something you didn't even have tried out yet.

Yes the devs said they won't do it, IN THE WAY IT WAS PROPOSED TO THEM.
Like most humans people think about their decisions and if it was a good one and REACT to it. As will the devs do.

If you really are leaving because of a damn coolant then please bye bye!

What if they make the tier 3 coolant require 2 slots? Would all of you suddenly be quiet?
This change would require 2 seconds of time for the coders and I'm sure the devs would do it if they see it as appropriate.

For me the introduction of new things by PGI goes like this:
They announce something -> forum QQs
They release it -> half the forum QQs
They alter it -> quarter forum QQs
They alter it even further -> a small neglectible percentage of the forum QQs

What this means for me is: THEY ARE LISTENING

So shut the ef up and relax already. You are worse than YouTube commenters.

Its not about the coolant, the airstrikes will probably have the same model, and other things to come too.

Its about the business model, way of thinking, way of treating customers.

Most folks here would be just as pissed if the difference was 5%, because its not about the individual numbers or features, its about their way of delivery.

Edited by Chavette, 05 March 2013 - 04:14 AM.

[BR0WN_H0RN3T]

Just another gesture of badwill. In the business world the concept of goodwill is well established, but PGI really demonstrate what badwill is. Say one thing, do another. How is this not P2W? Anyway, no more cash for you greedy folk.

EDIT:

Here's the breakdown to explain why it's P2W:

• Option 1: You may have 1 light AND 1 medium Coolant Flush = 2 Module slots (Bought with CBs only)

OR

• You may have 1 large Coolant Flush = 1 Module slot (bought with MCs only)

So, is Option 2 superior to Option 1? Well, it gives you the same heat dissipation (35%) but 1 extra Module slot so I say YES = it is clearly P2W.

Edited by Brown Hornet, 05 March 2013 - 04:43 AM.

[CommanderBoom]

All forum flaming aside, all judgement about "how it will go" in the future... it comes down to this. Dev's said early on that they would not institute an advantage that could only be gained through a RL cash transaction. In this sense, if they release this model as it is, MWO will no longer be F2P, it will have an aspect of the game that is P2W. No go sir, not what you told me, not the type of game I was promoted.