28 replies to this topic

[mikerso]

My best mech was a Stalker 3H. it is well known that it is setup to sport LRM 20 x 2 and SRM 6 x 2. After the hotfix it feels like it literally is throwing Nerf arrows out there. It was great before the patch on the 19th and devastating after. Now it has become extremely mediocre. I can still get kills with it, but it isn't the same as before the patch. I am glad it still has four energy slots, but the energy slots cannot compensate for the loss of use in its main weapons.

Let us know what mechs you have had in the past that became irrelevant due to a hotfix or a patch.

[Signal27]

Had a Jenner. Stopped using it after the Raven 3L and the Commando 2D became pretty much the ONLY lights you could ever use. Then SSRMs got nerfed. I've started using my Jenner again hardcore.

So, ironically, it was thanks to a nerf that one of my mechs became relevant again.

[focuspark]

There's a rumor that he SRM / LRM damage nerf is only temporary until the splash damage bug gets fixed. I have nothing to back it up except a few posts I've read by other forum users.

That said, I agree that missiles suck now. Replacing the explosive warheads with foam tips was definitely a bad idea.

IMO the proper fix for missiles would have been to just increase the spread by about 50% from where it was.

[Marius Malthus]

focuspark, on 25 March 2013 - 02:43 PM, said:

There's a rumor that he SRM / LRM damage nerf is only temporary until the splash damage bug gets fixed. I have nothing to back it up except a few posts I've read by other forum users.

That said, I agree that missiles suck now. Replacing the explosive warheads with foam tips was definitely a bad idea.

IMO the proper fix for missiles would have been to just increase the spread by about 50% from where it was.

they said its temporary.... but they also stated that they wanted to see what the change is making. so its not 100% right that they are going to rollback the changes. i feel your pain... all my mediums brawlers were nerfed..... they are not nerfing weapons... they are nerfing chassis

[focuspark]

Marius Malthus, on 25 March 2013 - 02:49 PM, said:

they said its temporary.... but they also stated that they wanted to see what the change is making. so its not 100% right that they are going to rollback the changes. i feel your pain... all my mediums brawlers were nerfed..... they are not nerfing weapons... they are nerfing chassis

My primary damage comes from lasers, but I loved the whollup I could deliver with a pair of SRM6 done right. Now there's nearly no point in the missile launchers being there. I've removed most the ammo and added heat sinks for the LL.

[Signal27]

focuspark, on 25 March 2013 - 02:43 PM, said:

IMO the proper fix for missiles would have been to just increase the spread by about 50% from where it was.

Please tell me you actually meant decrease, because the outrageous spread is why they were taking people's heads off in one salvo and thus had to be hotfixed.

[John MatriX82]

I also miss my dual SRM4 DRG 1N, and also the DRG 1C feels a little gimped using the SRM6 now :/, in general now you're pretty forced to go ballistic and/or laser heavy..

[focuspark]

Signal27, on 25 March 2013 - 03:15 PM, said:

Please tell me you actually meant decrease, because the outrageous spread is why they were taking people's heads off in one salvo and thus had to be hotfixed.

I said spread, not splash. They're separate things. Larger spread should mean more missiles hit the arms and legs, and more missiles just plain miss than do now. Currently missile salvos bunch up to where they can fit into the CT and that's not right. IMO is should be damn near impossible to land all 20 LRMs in one go.

I think splash damage should be out right removed. Let the missiles do damage where they connect and that's it. Can't tell you the number of times being hit in the back has stripped by front CT armor with LRMs - ****** me off each time.

[WinnieTheWhor]

After nerfing LRM damage, they aren't accurate enough now with Artemis AND a TAG.

[Amaris the Usurper]

focuspark, on 25 March 2013 - 02:43 PM, said:

There's a rumor that he SRM / LRM damage nerf is only temporary until the splash damage bug gets fixed. I have nothing to back it up except a few posts I've read by other forum users.

That said, I agree that missiles suck now. Replacing the explosive warheads with foam tips was definitely a bad idea.

IMO the proper fix for missiles would have been to just increase the spread by about 50% from where it was.

It's here: http://mwomercs.com/...rver-downtime/. It was posted in Hot Topic Heatsink instead of in Announcements, causing much confusion. Relevant portion quoted below.

Paul Inouye, on 21 March 2013 - 02:46 PM, said:

This is a TEMPORARY fix to quell the damage done by missiles at this time. We are fully investigating the damage model AND focusing on the grouping of missiles and will update as soon as we can on how any changes will be managed/implemented.

[Pht]

This will continue for as long as they continue tweaking, and because of the way they tried to use some of the TT and mash it up with ideas from a game genre that the Mechwarrior video game series isn't even a part of ... this tweaking will continue endlessly.

It is the result of an incoherent design base.

If the tweaking doesn't continue, than the game will settle in, and one, maybe two builds and tactics will be found to be the only really viable ones, thus makign the elites permanent as long as they want to play a two-trick pony... and pushing the newbies out, as they will get smashed mercilessly until they master the one or two tricks.

[Phatel]

OP: Mech I used had nothing but broken/bugged weapons that were doing 2-7x the intended damage. Now that they are fixed I am no longer able to play, please break something again so I may boat it.

[Wildstreak]

Only Mech I own so far really affected is the AWS-8R.
I used to see this one a lot in addition to driving it.
If not the 4 LRM15 version then the 4 SRM6 one, did both.
Very useful especially the second, now not so sure but I have not run it much lately.

[Amaris the Usurper]

Phatel, on 25 March 2013 - 05:48 PM, said:

OP: Mech I used had nothing but broken/bugged weapons that were doing 2-7x the intended damage. Now that they are fixed I am no longer able to play, please break something again so I may boat it.

2-7x intended damage is overstating the problem. Paul stated that the numbers I found on Testing Grounds (which is where that figure came from) were in some cases nearly double what would be seen in a similar situation in a live match. This is because Testing Grounds was (at that time) broken and didn't represent live play (and it still doesn't). I didn't know that when I did the tests, but I did comment on the possibility.

Paul's statement is borne out by my pre-patch SRM stats, which show 2.40 damage/missile for SRM 6s and 3.05 for Streaks.

Anyway, the results that I reported showed the trends correctly, if not the exact values: small 'mechs, especially the Commando, were taking far too much damage. It was enough to prompt an investigation by PGI, and internal testing showed a typical value of 12.9 damage/missile for SRMs fired at the CT of a Commando.

I then did (with FactorlanP) some in-game tests that showed 11-12 damage for CT hits on the Commando, and 17 damage for CT hits on the Jenner. Other 'mechs took damage on the CT in the 4-6 range, with the Atlas oddly taking around 1 damage. These numbers must be tempered by the knowledge that, due to a bug, leg and arm hits (and hits against other protruding portions of a 'mech, such as the Raven's "beak") did greatly reduced damage--sometimes in the range of 0.6 per missile. This bug only affected weapons with splash damage.

These tests had no connection with PGI and were performed for science. We have since moved to a new version, and it is now impossible for you to reproduce them, so you can take or leave the results. I am just throwing it out as further illustration.

The 19 March patch fixed the bug in which extremities took reduced damage, initiating the Missile Apocalypse. Not since the Reign of Artemis (in November, Artemis LRMs began executed pop-up attacks, falling straight down onto the heads of 'mechs hiding behind buildings--the current issues ain't nothin') has there been such wailing and gnashing of teeth. The response was the current hotfix.

[Sorry if this is somewhat off-topic. I wanted to write a concise history of what has actually happened with missiles. Hopefully it will prevent some confusion.]

Edited by Amaris the Usurper, 26 March 2013 - 07:33 PM.

[focuspark]

Amaris the Usurper, on 25 March 2013 - 05:03 PM, said:

It's here: http://mwomercs.com/...rver-downtime/. It was posted in Hot Topic Heatsink instead of in Announcements, causing much confusion. Relevant portion quoted below.

Thanks!

[blinkin]

Pht, on 25 March 2013 - 05:12 PM, said:

This will continue for as long as they continue tweaking, and because of the way they tried to use some of the TT and mash it up with ideas from a game genre that the Mechwarrior video game series isn't even a part of ... this tweaking will continue endlessly.

It is the result of an incoherent design base.

If the tweaking doesn't continue, than the game will settle in, and one, maybe two builds and tactics will be found to be the only really viable ones, thus makign the elites permanent as long as they want to play a two-trick pony... and pushing the newbies out, as they will get smashed mercilessly until they master the one or two tricks.

wow you have just built a little nest in that box that you are stuck thinking inside.

there are other sources for ideas besides the mechwarrior games:

• most racing games have parts within the vehicles that can be swapped out for others with different stats (mech lab). in fact there is an old game called "interstate '76" that the mechlab very strongly reminds me of and with some rules sets in battle tech*.
  
• the throttle is found in most racing games and is definitely found in any respectable flight simulator.
  
• torso twist is straight out of tank simulators like world of tanks and is also included in battle tech*.
  
• line of sight is present in almost any game working in a 3D environment including RTS as old as "total annihilation", and most any table top style game including battle tech*.
  
• jump jets are found in all sorts of crazy places. from old james bond games to all sorts of old sidescroller nintendo games and a great many table top style games like battletech* or warhammer 40k.
  
• critical injuries (injuries that limit your in game abilities in some way besides just killing you). most any survival game. anything that wants to call itself a simulator of some kind. it is even found within the cars of newer grand theft auto games and tabletop*.
  
• ammo limitations get included with almost any game that has guns from as far back as "duck hunt" and table top*.
  
• weight limits on builds were included in chrome hounds and table top*.
  
• first person aiming and shooting got it's start with "duck hunt".
  
• engine heat is found within the flight simulator "IL-2" and table top*.
  
• target locking and missile guidance are found in "sonic adventure battle 2".
  
• sectored damage is included with any game that has head shots, rear armor hits, any respectable simulator, or battle tech*.

[Corvus Antaka]

Yeah. I used to pilot my founders catapult with 2 LRM 15's.

Now it just collects dust.

Back to direct fire for a while. nice change of pace

[Karl Streiger]

Did you consider that LRM are support weapons?
They have to rip armor of a enemy mech...so that other guys with point fring weapons can break through the armor.
The 3H Stalker with LRM 20 was designed as heavy artillery Mech and fire support plattform, not for killing the enemy.

So what about a Stalker featuring PPCs and LRMs. Or the Atlas with ALRM20 and Gauss. I think they are still capable of dealing some heavy damage. But again it does not come from a mono weapon boats but the inteligent mix of different weapons.

That is the real disadvantage of boats. You have your shortage not only in game - some of you show the same shortage in the forum - in form of straight linear thinking.

My LRMs don't kill anything: Buff the LRM's instead...my LRM's allone doesn't kill anything what can i do to change this:

• building a team
  
• creating a mix of different weapons that is more as the sum of DPS or Alpha

Edited by Karl Streiger, 26 March 2013 - 12:24 AM.

[blinkin]

Karl Streiger, on 26 March 2013 - 12:23 AM, said:

Did you consider that LRM are support weapons?
They have to rip armor of a enemy mech...so that other guys with point fring weapons can break through the armor.
The 3H Stalker with LRM 20 was designed as heavy artillery Mech and fire support plattform, not for killing the enemy.

So what about a Stalker featuring PPCs and LRMs. Or the Atlas with ALRM20 and Gauss. I think they are still capable of dealing some heavy damage. But again it does not come from a mono weapon boats but the inteligent mix of different weapons.

That is the real disadvantage of boats. You have your shortage not only in game - some of you show the same shortage in the forum - in form of straight linear thinking.

My LRMs don't kill anything: Buff the LRM's instead...my LRM's allone doesn't kill anything what can i do to change this:

• building a team
  
• creating a mix of different weapons that is more as the sum of DPS or Alpha

you are making me miss some of my old atlas builds. unfortunately i am stuck with boats since my old track ball died on me. now i only have 2 buttons to work with so my old atlas with 4 functioning weapon groups is not currently viable.

it was by far the most stressful build i have ever piloted, but if i was paying any attention at all i could easily face down and kill two or three healthy assault mechs in a row. straight on from the front taking the full force of their fire.

i think i had 2x UAC5, 2x SRM6, 2x MPL, and 2x ERPPC. i very rarely had the brain power to operate ALL of the weapon groups together effectively, but it didn't seem to matter, most other assault mechs would die within a few seconds.

[Karl Streiger]

blinkin, on 26 March 2013 - 12:41 AM, said:

you are making me miss some of my old atlas builds. unfortunately i am stuck with boats since my old track ball died on me. now i only have 2 buttons to work with so my old atlas with 4 functioning weapon groups is not currently viable.

Oh dear - 2 Buttons? I couldn't ever play the game with two buttons.
I reallized how effectiv LRM and Gauss where when they showed the concept art of the Highlander.
In general there is always a LRM in one of my Atlas builds. (an all of them need the full 6 fire groups)
2 ER-PPCs, 1 Gauss, 2 SRM 4 or 1 LRM 10, 2Med Laser
2 ER-PPCs, 1 AC 20, 1 SSRM2, 2 Med - or the original AS7-K loadout
2 LLAS, LRM 20, Gauss, 2 SSRM2

Edited by Karl Streiger, 26 March 2013 - 12:46 AM.