13 replies to this topic

[Comassion]

One thing this game hasn't taken from Tabletop is heat penalties. I see that some people on this forum want the game to somehow punish Alpha striking in order to make Chainfiring a more viable playstyle.

Well, how about incorporating some of TT's heat penalties? As your heat climbs, your 'mech slows down and your aim gets worse. A Chainfiring build which spreads out it's weapons fire will be able to keep it's heat low over time and won't suffer as much from heat penalties. On the other hand, a 'mech which spikes it's heat from an Alpha strike will slow down and have it's aim degraded (perhaps through slower torso twist / arm movement) until it cools back down. Alphas still retain the advantage of getting all their damage on target, but that now comes with a price, making both options more of a choice.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Heat Penalties would be great, it would make it harder for those high damage Alpha boats to line up their second high damage Alpha. And Overheating should bring a greater penalty to Mechs if they shutdown from heat.

I've been in too many matches where a Mech Alphas to Shutdown, overrides and then finishes off it's severely damaged opponent and then moves on to its next target with little damage done to itself. I guess it's fun for those players to ROFLstomp others by taking advantage of the system like that; but it gets tedious if you rather build more heat efficient Mechs, that are then getting wrecked by such actions.

And then when it seems that most on the enemy team is boating such high Alpha Strikes it can be down right frustrating. Focus fire seems to take on a new meaning when it's so much pinpoint damage coming from more than one mech.

[Tombstoner]

yup, the game punishes players if they dare try to make non min maxed builds that dont utilize(exploit) the current convergent system or ECM. Mech like the spider with 4x MG's my personal favorite. but that build is almost as usfull as a TKing player.

Movement based penalties due to high heat should be in the game. may be it will at some point, not all the game features are in place. and it doesn't affect the players targeting skill.

Targeting modifiers from high heat will never see the light of day. The game doesn't have a targeting mechanic that can be modified by heat or movement. The devs think a COF gets in the way of player skill. except that all modern FPS have a cone of fire and that COF is what separates the sniper rifles from the assault rifles not just rate of fire. COD, BF, Halo and other multi million dollar maker games have them: just saying.....

Some players think it reduced the game to a RNG and we should just let AI's fight and bet on who wins.... kinda like pro sports.

I scratch my head as to why some TT mechanics are used and others ignored as MWO slowly devolves into MW4O

[CommanderHawk2]

I have never yet faced alpha strikers, and i have played a decent amount. I have never alpha striked myself in this game (my mech is not designed for such actions (being a Centurion) so I dont know too much about this topic. Reading here, my understanding is the problem is people alpha strike to shutdown, override shutdown, strike again taking down their opponent without a fight? I believe it was MW3 where if you totally broke the limits of your heat toleration, your mech detonated. Seems like a decent way to prevent alpha spammers. Alpha is still viable, and overriding still is, but alpha striking after overriding should destroy/cause severe internal damage to the mech that does this.

[RoboPatton]

In past games, (and TT) you really had to consider the negatives before you pulled that trigger. As it stands now, we are really ignoring an important part of the Canon of the MW/BT universe.

It's like playing football, but taking out time-outs.

There are benefits to everyone, to bringing back Over Heating penalties--

For Players:
This would discourage PPC boating.
It would discourage Alpha-thons that games commonly turn into.
Battles would last longer.
There would be a place for MG, and SL and SpL, possibly even flamers.


For PGI:
You will sell more coolant flushes.
People will diversify and buy mechs other than those with the most Energy Hardpoints.

[Khobai]

heat penalties could work but the entire heat system would have to be completely redone from scratch to incorporate them.

[Davers]

Heat penalties will have no effect on high alpha builds. The point of high alpha builds is that they kill you before they have to worry about heat. SRM builds, AC/20 builds, Gauss builds, LRM builds, Streak Builds- none of these will be overly effected. You know who will be though? Medium mechs, Dragons, and Awesomes. Builds that need to keep up steady fire to do damage.

[Ralgas]

The problem is more a case of what get unintentionally nerfed as a result. The best conclusion i've head of yet is the reduced shutdown threshold with a slightly higher dissipation to compensate. limits alpha's while still allowing them in limited circumstances but leans far more towards controlled, constant fire

TBH they could probably start by dropping heat containment altogether, and adding 2.5% to cool running.

[Matthew Ace]

Davers, on 28 March 2013 - 01:13 PM, said:

Heat penalties will have no effect on high alpha builds. The point of high alpha builds is that they kill you before they have to worry about heat. SRM builds, AC/20 builds, Gauss builds, LRM builds, Streak Builds- none of these will be overly effected. You know who will be though? Medium mechs, Dragons, and Awesomes. Builds that need to keep up steady fire to do damage.

This right here for the most part. Although I'm a supporter of having more heat penalties, there's a need to be careful with implementing it. (It is still possible to target at limiting the effectiveness of high-heat alpha boats through)

What made these builds (exception would be streaks, LRMs, SRMs) deadly is pinpointed damage (simplicity of handling also plays a part). If that itself is solved, then such builds will not be as lethal (and for all you know, it may even be possible that armor be reduced to 1.5x or even normal instead of 2x as it currently is, and fights lasting same amount of time if not longer).

[Yokaiko]

No.

What are you supposed to do with the lights and slow mediums? Do a disco setup.

Its stupid, no.

[HarmAssassin]

There are other threads on this. I absolutely support heat penalties, that's the best way to counter those who build mechs designed to overheat with each volley.

[Psydotek]

I wholly support heat penalties. At the very least a slower movement speed needs to be implemented.

As for accuracy reduction, my favorite idea is to simply have the reticles expand as heat rises to make shots more difficult to place. Actual weapon fire will still remain pinpoint precise at the very center of the reticle (no expanding firing cone), but when the reticle tick marks and circle are spread out across the screen it'll take some skill to score a hit under pressure.

[Nubsternator]

Davers, on 28 March 2013 - 01:13 PM, said:

Heat penalties will have no effect on high alpha builds. The point of high alpha builds is that they kill you before they have to worry about heat. SRM builds, AC/20 builds, Gauss builds, LRM builds, Streak Builds- none of these will be overly effected. You know who will be though? Medium mechs, Dragons, and Awesomes. Builds that need to keep up steady fire to do damage.

Try boating 6 ppc's or 6 srm 6's and tell me you don't overheat in two or three alpha volleys.

[Yokaiko]

Try a Jenner F.