133 replies to this topic

[Samaritan]

Hon. Mechwarriors;

I for one would like to see the Dervish modled. It would give the game a 5/8/5 platform that could be customized to fill in armour, and weapons to match the unseen chasseys. Example: Wolverine M Laser and SRM weapons ports are found on the Dervish as well, making it an easy modificiation. Example: Griffin S Lasers and LRMs make it a good substitute candidate for the Dervish as well. Example: Shadow Hawk Lasers, LRMs, SRMs are all accounted for by the Dervish frame. The AC is not supported by the Dervish, but surely there will be some lee way in the mechlab for a balistic weapon slot. In any case the unarmoured Shadow Hawk H variant is armed with two medium lasers, two SRM2s, and the AC5 where the Dervish is armed with the same weapons, but swaps the AC5 for a pair of LRM10s and more armour.

The Dervish ought to be the baseline medium chassey for 3025 in the abscence of the Unseen.

Respectfully

Samaritan

[Eximar]

I bet PGI can make as mundane a mech as the Whitworth look mean, and I also bet that we'll have tons of mediums to choose from as time passes, so all of this will be, more or less, moot.

[Sassori]

I'd love to see a Dervish in the game. Paddle Hands and all.

[Deathz Jester]

The Centurion is a nice solid medium.

[Xantars]

now the medium i would love to see id the dervish ( missle boat ) thats a medium mech i realy loved

[Sassori]

Iron Harlequin, on 03 June 2012 - 11:06 AM, said:

The Centurion is a nice solid medium.

That is as slow or slower than the heavies... which sort of defeats the point of the medium mech imho.

[Davoke]

Uziel

[AtomicArmadillo]

Mechs not solid?I want one of these liquid or gas mechs.One liquid mech with my steiner burger please.I hope my mech isn't gassy.

Edited by AtomicArmadillo, 03 June 2012 - 12:43 PM.

[Deathz Jester]

AtomicArmadillo, on 03 June 2012 - 12:39 PM, said:

Mechs not solid?I want one of these liquid or gas mechs.One liquid mech with my steiner burger please.I hope my mech isn't gassy.

+1

[Woodstock]

but as we get xl engines the centurions speed is no longer its weakness

[Sassori]

Woodstock, on 03 June 2012 - 12:46 PM, said:

but as we get xl engines the centurions speed is no longer its weakness

No then it's weakness is dying to a side torso coring as those XL engines take up 3 chunks of each side torso which makes the mech three times as vulnerable.

[AtomicArmadillo]

Ardor, on 02 June 2012 - 11:35 PM, said:

The funny thing is that you guys keep referencing the UNSEEN the unseen... They're unseen because fasa lost the rights to use the robotech images for their game. Harmony Gold sued them and they disapeered in the early 90's. The record sheets and the "mechs" themselves are still legal it's just the original art that was used with them. They could still be introduced into the game using new art work of the project pheonix artwork since that is originally created artwork and not licesensed artwork that could disapeer again. As for true mediums the hunchback is a true medium. it just can't rush out there likea light. It's a team work kinda mech...

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Unseen

Unseen Reseen we all scream for ice cream.

Edited by AtomicArmadillo, 03 June 2012 - 01:05 PM.

[I_AM_ZUUL]

Arikiel, on 03 June 2012 - 06:22 AM, said:

So only 55 ton Mechs at the very highest end of Medium count as "true Mediums"? I guess true Lights only come in 35 tons and true Heavies only come in 75 tons? If average/typical/normal/representative Mechs are beneath you then come back in a year when the Clans come out. Then you can min/max to your hearts desire.

No, I used the "Big 3" as an example of what exemplifies a Medium mechs role. True, mathematically running anything with a 4/6 movement in less then a 75 Tonner is sub-par. There are plenty of great heavys that can do so, like the Archer. But the whole point I was making was that we have been giving two wannabe Heavys & a wannabe Light in the Medium class. As far as anything less then 35 tons being a Light, I just chalk it up to being part of the over-arcing universe. Lights shouldn't even exist by any Quartermasters balance sheet. You can field almost a full company of VTOLs & Armor for the same cost of a Lance of Lights. They will do a better job of reconnaissance & bring more firepower & armor to the fight. But that is not as cool so it does not happen.

Nathan

[PewPew2]

zuul88, on 03 June 2012 - 05:04 PM, said:

No, I used the "Big 3" as an example of what exemplifies a Medium mechs role. True, mathematically running anything with a 4/6 movement in less then a 75 Tonner is sub-par. There are plenty of great heavys that can do so, like the Archer. But the whole point I was making was that we have been giving two wannabe Heavys & a wannabe Light in the Medium class. As far as anything less then 35 tons being a Light, I just chalk it up to being part of the over-arcing universe. Lights shouldn't even exist by any Quartermasters balance sheet. You can field almost a full company of VTOLs & Armor for the same cost of a Lance of Lights. They will do a better job of reconnaissance & bring more firepower & armor to the fight. But that is not as cool so it does not happen.

Nathan

Jeez bitter much?

[SideSt3p]

Math is just numbers. Just like combat statistics. They are intended to provide an abstract overview of an enemy’s capabilities but that’s all, an overview. However, you can't ‘math’ the pilot variable. Sure you can gauge within a variable a percentage of creep or spread for the predicted outcome of a pilot’s skill, but even that is merely a guess.

Reason being, you could always face an exceptional pilot; somebody who does things that aren't expected or potentially even thought possible. These would scew the numbers and effectively, make them useless.

Are any of the Mediums presented here considered to be mathematically perfect? No. But that's the point. Min-Maxing and power-gaming are here, and they aren't going anywhere but that doesn't mean the Devs are going to make it easy for a Power Gamer to accomplish the 'optimum builds'. If they did, we would only face those few designs thought to be ‘perfect’ and as such the game wouldn’t offer much variety and would die quickly. Also, if you can pilot an ‘un-optimized’ design well, succeed with it and win matches then I feel the Devs are forcing players to try new things, and expand the way the game is played. So that when the ‘optimized’ designs are eventually included, the game has evolved and other players have ideas with how to handle these power house designs.

This isn't the Table Top game ported to a computer. If that's what's desired, I suggest checking out MechWarrior Tactics which looks fantastic and is just that. I feel that with that game, this type of analysis would be much more appropriate. With MWO however, the game contains many more variables which change the game from anything similar to the Table Top. We also don't even have full details yet of what is going to happen with Mech Lab modifications, upkeep costs (if there are any), repair costs (if there are any) and so on.

In conclusion, MWO can’t be broken down to numbers. It simply doesn’t make sense to. Once we have a complete release of the game to experiment with and see all of the built in functionality, we might be able to break the game down by numbers a little bit more (minus the previously explained pilot variable).

My 2 C-Bills…

[I_AM_ZUUL]

PewPew2, on 03 June 2012 - 05:13 PM, said:

Jeez bitter much?

I am not bitter in the slightest, just a fact. Battlemechs Are Cool, so in Battletech universe there will be a full compliment of Battlemechs. I do not mind it but it does not change the math or the facts. I only find it mildly bothersome much like there being only 3 competent Archons in the entire Battletech history. But if they did not have incompetent Archons making glaringly illogical & stupid decisions then the Lyrans would've conquered the rest of the IS long ago. That would preclude there being a Battletech universe for us to enjoy & play in, so I just ignore it as a "necessary evil." Much like George Washington concluded about the Government.

[Samaritan]

Hon. Mechwarriors;

Mech Commander, a game written by Microprose, had a great introductory movie in which a Hunchback and a Centurion figure pominently. These are mechs that already have some recognition in the fandom with or without table top play. In addition, these two mechs are solid choices in the industrial rationalization of the Succession Wars.

I have played the Succession Wars board game and have all the books more or less, and the picture of the 3rd and 4th Succession Wars told there is that light chasseys predominate, with medium, heavy, and assaults appearing half as often as the previous weight class. Medium Mechs became the workhorse chassey because surviving industry, the tremendous expense of establishing new factories, and the thin jumpship freight que demanded high density/high production efficiency shock armies for invading worlds. The strategic jumpship funnel is so tight in the Succession Wars board game that there is 0 capacity to move conventional arms in the initial assault on any world. They can only be built on planet as a permanent 3 factor garrison after you have won the battle for new realestate.

If you had to limit a world to the production of a single mech chasey, the Hunchback is perhaps the best choice you could make in the middle weight chasseys because of all of the established usefull variants. In any case, there are Hundreds of mech chaseys and they will all be produced for the game if people will pay for them. MWO as a free to play, and pay for what you want will offer the best format for paying starving programmers and artists to freelance art mods that can eventually gain MWO official sanction. Take yer starter box limited mech choices and like'em folks, you will get what you pay for in time, heck we might as well head over to the Kickstarter website and start setting up Mech wish list funds.

My two Cbills on the subject. Thanks for hearing me out.

Respectfully

Samaritan

[Joe Lean]

It'd be fun to see a Vindicator :-)

[Derick Cruisaire]

In terms of the OP stating the currently confirmed medium mechs not being "true".
May I just point out that I think you are...

They are completely "true".
Also. I am certain that there will be plenty of additional "true" medium mechs in the future.

Edited by Derick Cruisaire, 03 June 2012 - 06:59 PM.

[Farmer]

I'm still trying to figure out where he's getting "The Big 3" from. Not one of them immediately comes to mind when I think of Medium 'Mechs. Sure, they're useful and all, but that aren't really quintesential, especially in the fluff from the game. They're common, yes, but they aren't Hero 'Mechs. The Centurion and the Hunchie have both been used as faces for the franchise in the last twenty years. That's significant, especially if you're trying to lure in players.