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Why no solid medium mechs?


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#81 Gun Bear

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 03:38 AM

View PostJack Colten, on 02 June 2012 - 08:51 PM, said:

As has been pointed out the classic IS Meds are almost all Unseen mechs, Pheonix Hawk, Griffon, Shadowhawk, Wolverine. You do have the option of the Dervish (ok) Blackjack(ok). Maybe this Ostroc would be nice or maybe the Lensman? Centurion is a great mech. I think the Hellspawn is a post invasion mech and my favorite IS post invasion Medium the Bushwacker won't be available for a few years. Ahh the Vindicator, not a bad mech. Hermis II Vulcanand Crab too.


You are correct there, the Hellspawn first sees action during the FedCom civil war. I personally love it but I don't think it is necessary one of the top mediums - at least not in stock configuration.

#82 Der Basilisk

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 04:04 AM

It may be right, that there are better Mechs than a Centurion and a Hunchback. But think of this: by now, we have only that many Mechs available to play with. So be happy, that the devs gave us some, that have almost dozens of variants. Through this, we can be sure that even without customisation, we have quite a pool to choose from. Or the idea may be that each house has it´s different set of variants to start with. And next, think of what these two mechs will become with Lostech.

Of course, personally i would love to see something faster like a Trebuchet or a Dervish. And i really miss a medium with Jumpjets, like the Chameleon mentioned above. In fact i don´t understand, why two of the three heavies so far have or will have Jumpjets, but not the mediums. It should be vice versa.

#83 Uller Phrost

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 04:16 AM

Hmm the enforcer is pretty iconic for IS mediums they pics of it alot. and it has a dozen other mechs that look almost like it. mechlab and enforcer and you have most the mediums

#84 Nik Van Rhijn

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 04:24 AM

I would like to see a 40, 45 and 55 ton mech in, preferably all with JJs to complete the lineup of mediums. Clint, Vindicator and Dervish would do fine as they have variants to add variety. As for MechLab - we will have immersion broken all the time whether we like it or not. People will optimise their rides to suit their own versions of best. I'm not expecting to see a single unmodified mech an hour after launch.

#85 Robovski

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 04:28 AM

I'd like a Vindicator - I've had many a fun time with them, especially modded.

No way I'm not tweaking my mechs if I can - design and test was half of the fun for me.

#86 Phoenixfire

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 05:33 AM

They have only announce 11 battlemechs so far and only 3 mediums. I am pretty sure this is the least amount in any Battletech game(I know they will be adding more) so we need to wait.. I believe they released the ones that best suit the team model they are going with ight now rather than the ones that are "true" jack of all trades that are better in one v one.

#87 Aldinvor

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 05:39 AM

Whats with the hate for the Centurion please?

#88 Frostiken

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 05:49 AM

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Sha_Yu

WANT!

Unfortunately it's pretty far off..

Edited by Frostiken, 03 June 2012 - 05:50 AM.


#89 Aldinvor

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 05:51 AM

View PostFrostiken, on 03 June 2012 - 05:49 AM, said:



have fun waiting 15+ years for that...

#90 Unclecid

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 05:57 AM

View PostFurniture, on 02 June 2012 - 07:34 PM, said:

Those are all Unseen mechs... why even ask for them? Unless you want them to be removed soon after because of a lawsuit.


no need for a lawsuit if the PGI 'unseen' are changed from the originals like the Project Phoenix ones were.

there is truly no reason whatsoever that MWO cannot have the 'unseen' designs.

#91 Athena Hart

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 06:07 AM

Umm... Hunchback and Centurion Both "ARE" solid mechs, I've always used those 2.Both of them were well balanced with both armor and firepower. Personally I usually avoided the Griffin, Shadowhawk and... ok I admit it.... I used the Wolverine.. but that was because I liked how it looked and its name.. Not because it was a solid mech. In order to make the Wolverine useful I usually had to Mod it by Dropping the AC-5 and Replacing it with a LG Laser and added some heat sinks. Rarely used the Griffin (it looked goofy), and like the Wolverine, you really had to drop the AC-5 for a Laser or PPC to make the Shadowhawk worth using. After they started adding lost-tech to these did they actually become useful, as the XL Engines allowed them to carry heavier ordinance, which TBH, they really needed.

#92 Toothman

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 06:07 AM

View PostUnclecid, on 03 June 2012 - 05:57 AM, said:


no need for a lawsuit if the PGI 'unseen' are changed from the originals like the Project Phoenix ones were.

there is truly no reason whatsoever that MWO cannot have the 'unseen' designs.

The project Phoenix redos are mostly large piles of fecal material. I'd rather they stayed unseen.

#93 Unclecid

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 06:19 AM

View PostToothman, on 03 June 2012 - 06:07 AM, said:

The project Phoenix redos are mostly large piles of fecal material. I'd rather they stayed unseen.


didnt say copy the PP redesigns or even base the redesigns on those.

PGI has done a really good job with their own form of redesign on the 11 we have seen so far.

i used PP as an example of how we could have the 'unseen' in MWO.

heck just using the same style of mek design PGI has used so far would be sufficient to avoid any legal issues.

#94 Arikiel

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 06:22 AM

So only 55 ton Mechs at the very highest end of Medium count as "true Mediums"? I guess true Lights only come in 35 tons and true Heavies only come in 75 tons? If average/typical/normal/representative Mechs are beneath you then come back in a year when the Clans come out. Then you can min/max to your hearts desire.

Edited by Arikiel, 03 June 2012 - 06:23 AM.


#95 TWolfWD

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 06:29 AM

I love my Hunchback, sir, and I am insulted you would talk in such a way about it! *switches to AC/20*

#96 Athena Hart

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 06:30 AM

Oh.. and for the guys comparing battle stats using the Tabletop Rules.... You do realized that as turn based it was easy to stay out of range of weapons like the AC/20. You ever try Solaris Matches in MW4:Mercenaries? No?.... I didn't think so. You've obviously never piloted a Hunchback. All of my Solaris victories were in Hunchbacks both IS and Clan versions. In real time its very hard to avoid the Hunchback at all times. On a real Battlefield its even nastier as I tend to "Power Down" my Hunchback and wait for mechs to stomp right on by and then power up and lay into them from behind usually killing or crippiling whatever I shot at. (This tactic really only worked in RP/Table Top as the PC games rarely recognize that your mech was powered down and automatically "Saw" you reguardless.

#97 StarSlayer40

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 06:33 AM

Hmm, well some mediums 'mechs I'd like to see in the future include the WhitWorth, Clint, Hermes, and Crab, maybe scorpion if they decide to add quads (which no mechwarior video game has done that I know of). Also, I love the idea of having lights scare enemy forces into an area targeted by friendly fire support 'mechs and then flee right into the hunchbacks and Centurions. :rolleyes:
Yeah though, even after those, there are plenty more mediums out there...

#98 DrnkJawa

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 08:21 AM

View Postzuul88, on 02 June 2012 - 09:06 PM, said:

True, i did have the most amazing time fighting a hunchback in a GRF-1S a few months ago with one of the other players who did not understand Battletech. That AC 20 seemed awesome until i stayed 10 hexes away the entire fight, large laser!!! But unless the entire game is totally BROKEN then it will still stand to reason, they will continue to seem awesome while remaining essentially worthless. Cause any smart/good player while just laugh as they bring you down. But feel free to be immensely proud of any inexperienced/stupid players you can manage to kill. If you hear hysterical laughter as all your short range weapons miss while you get grinded into the dirt like a chump, that will be me or any other competent player.

Nathan

problem is this isnt tabletop so you can start bending over to "kiss your rear byebye" because it will be up close and personal unless you got feathers. And i honestly cant wait for you to start threads after getting killed by a nasty Urbie just because you saw it useless on the table

#99 Sassori

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 09:27 AM

If I ever get killed by an UrbanMech I'd quit playing. Seriously.

As for why the Hunchback and the Centurion generate hate? Because 4/6 is NOT a good speed for a medium. It's just not. Mediums should go 5/8 or 6/9 in order to fulfill their roles as harassers. The hunchback (stock variant) especially because it has no weapons that go beyond 270 meters /and/ it moves as slow or slower than heavy mech's.

Personally my Hunchback isn't going to act like a hunchback when I'm done with it because the first thing I'm doing is ripping out the AC20 and adding a bigger engine so I can get to decent medium speeds.

4/6 is just to slow for mediums in my opinion, it's to slow to get to where it needs to for best impact.

#100 Mercurial

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Posted 03 June 2012 - 09:41 AM

Tabletop game and real-time simulators play differently, turns out. It's not as bad as you think--or at least it hasn't been a huge OMG THE CENTURION AND HUNCHBACK SUUUUUCK in like, any Mechwarrior game they were in.

Anyway in TT The Hunchback was hardly a harasser. It was pretty much the cheapest way to get some heavy-mech caliber weapons at the cost of stupid amounts of armor. If you can get a flank great, but really the only thing I ever saw it used for was to run up and punch a heavy/assault, pray for headshots or at least deliver it's payload before it inevitably gets wiped off the field. Anyone who chases a medium mech with a Hunchback is doing it wrong. (That said, I never liked them in TT).

I'd like a med with a little more manueverability (a more rounded, jumpjet equipped type) but honestly the Cent/Hunchback/Cicada's not a bad balance so far. Emphasized armor/balanced weapons. Heavy weapons/low armor, high speed/low either.





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