29 replies to this topic

[Vorkoz]

Hello, I'm pretty new to this community, but nevertheless I would like to voice some impressions I have got from playing the game for some time now.

LB-10X autocannon seems to be the least used of the autocannon family. With regards to damage, it would optimally be on par with AC10 should all the pellets hit, but they rarely do, and when they do they are indeed widely spread over several body locations thus further reducing the effectiveness of the shot in damaging armor. I believe it would be nice to see some kind of buff for it, though I am not quite sure what kind. It would be easy to over-buff it as well. Perhaps a slight buff to damage given that lorewise they should be able to fire similar rounds as AC10 but are prevented from in MWO in fear of making AC10 completely redundant, or maybe an increase in number of pellets fired? Also rate of fire could perhaps be tweaked. I'm sure there are lots of other good proposals how to make this weapon truly stand on it's own, it'd be nice to hear them

[Therion I]

LB-10X buff is coming but quite a way off. The buff is in the form of different types of ammo. LB-10X in TT can fire slugs as well as buck.

[Kmieciu]

Therion I, on 17 April 2013 - 03:46 AM, said:

LB-10X in TT can fire slugs as well as buck.

It's not buck - it's a cluster round that should burst mid-air like an anti-aircraft flak shell.

[Dimitry Matveyev]

Kmieciu, on 17 April 2013 - 05:02 AM, said:

It's not buck - it's a cluster round that should burst mid-air like an anti-aircraft flak shell.

Than it should be simple - devs need to make the selectable firing mode for LB-X: slug mode or flack mode. And bind it to some key.

[John MatriX82]

Yep the weapon screams for a solid round, you just need to load up different tons of ammo and waste 1 or 2 recycle times to switch between the two kinds of ammunitions.

I'm fine if the solid shot isn't the same as an AC 10 (leave the AC 10 be the AC10) by making it a splash damage shell, something like you deal 5-7 points on the hit section and some splash damage in the nearby ones.

[Mypa333]

In my opinion the LBX does it's job very well, best anti-(light_with_ecm) weapon.

To be honest I don't understand your expectations. If you need range and accuracy get an AC10. If you want a good brawler weapon to shoot the lights, the LBX is the choice but definitely assisted by a Large laser or missiles to cover long range. The spread of the shot is what gives its power.

I've seen a dual LBX Jager that was absolutely amazing against the 2 Raven 3Ls that were lurking around him. He managed to leg one of the ravens in 2 dual shots and a ML burst. The other one ran away in FEAR.

You want to shoot some Ravens or other lights, the LBX is the best tool to do it (SRMs are not my type).

Edited by Mypa333, 17 April 2013 - 08:10 AM.

[konokoni]

I would like to see the LBX weapons work as I remember them working in MW3: they fire a cloud of flechettes that retain their relatively tight spread over range. While damage would still spread out over the target, it would be useful out to its max range, have the benefit of "glancing hits" if your aim is slightly off, and be very useful against fast light mechs at close range. The lack of pinpoint damage could theoretically be balanced out by the better weight and superior heat profile the LB-10X currently enjoys over the AC/10. WIth this change, the LBX "crit-seeking" nature would probably have to be returned to regular probabilities in order to prevent them from being overpowered when boated. The fact that there are a number of crit rolls per salvo would be good enough if 80% of the flechettes would hit the target regularly.

I wonder if the devs have already considered this implementation and have discovered downsides that I am not aware of.

Edited by konokoni, 17 April 2013 - 08:46 AM.

[Smk]

Mypa333, on 17 April 2013 - 08:07 AM, said:

In my opinion the LBX does it's job very well, best anti-(light_with_ecm) weapon.

To be honest I don't understand your expectations. If you need range and accuracy get an AC10. If you want a good brawler weapon to shoot the lights, the LBX is the choice but definitely assisted by a Large laser or missiles to cover long range. The spread of the shot is what gives its power.

I've seen a dual LBX Jager that was absolutely amazing against the 2 Raven 3Ls that were lurking around him. He managed to leg one of the ravens in 2 dual shots and a ML burst. The other one ran away in FEAR.

You want to shoot some Ravens or other lights, the LBX is the best tool to do it (SRMs are not my type).

It's job is supposed to be a longer ranged version of the AC that spreads its damage out a bit. So no, it doesn't do its job very well. Slugs would just turn the thing into an AC. They need to just fix how it currently is.

[Zordicron]

Easy to fix:
First, figure out how much spread you want the gun to have at a given range, optimal use range I will call it, whatever the devs feel that is.
Then, make the gun not shoot in an expanding cone, make it shoot that area, right out of the muzzle, and then retain that area through its flight. So if it is a 3x3 square of pellets at optimum range, it should be a 3x3 at closer range, and at max range. This means that while the spread will help at optimal range foe aiming at fast targets, it will hurt at closest range as the area is much bigger then it is now, and also lose some of that aiming bonus at max range because the spread will not increase to cover more and more area. BUT, it will still hit most of the pellets at point blank, and if aimed correctly, will still have a point at using it at longer range as the pellet spread will not get so big as only one ball hits target.

TL;DR: get rid of expanding cone mechanic.

[LackofCertainty]

Therion I, on 17 April 2013 - 03:46 AM, said:

LB-10X buff is coming but quite a way off. The buff is in the form of different types of ammo. LB-10X in TT can fire slugs as well as buck.

Have the devs ever actually said they're adding slugs to the LB10X?

I get the feeling they wouldn't do that, because once you get slug rounds for the LB10X, the AC10 becomes obsolete. (the LB10X is lighter and does the same thing the AC10 does at that point)

[That Dawg]

Mypa333, on 17 April 2013 - 08:07 AM, said:

In my opinion the LBX does it's job very well, best anti-(light_with_ecm) weapon.

I ran LBX exclusively on my Atlas DDC. wonderful damage. in your face brawling.

[Spheroid]

They should add a simple trig function to control spread angle as a function of distance. This could be done literally in five minutes. The distance behind reticle code is already in game and working.

Edited by Spheroid, 17 April 2013 - 08:39 PM.

[Cyke]

I agree with konokoni and Eldagore.. the cloud of submunitions just needs a fixed spread.
Right out of the firing 'Mech, they should spread out to a given spread size (like the random example, a 3 meter diameter "cloud"), and the cluster should stay at that size even as it travels further out.

Of course, the actual size of the cloud can be tweaked for balance.

[aptest]

There is no real reason to force the LBX into a long range weapon role just so that it will fit the "lore" (which is sacred). I really like the idea of a flak, proximity detonated round but aside from that the LBX does it's job just fine. I feel that for my usage of it, it outperforms the AC10 to some extent.

currently the lbx is
- a short range weapon
- a weapon that does better against wounded opponents
- a weapon that offers low heat generation and good damage
- a weapon that is easy to hit.

Up close against someone with a hole in his armor, this weapon is brutal. And while I don't think it's a good primary weapon, as a secondary weapon it is wonderful.

Edited by aptest, 18 April 2013 - 01:09 PM.

[Tarball]

They could leave it as it is right now, just give it a three round burst, then a 5 second cooldown. It should be a feared weapon at close range, just like real shotguns leave huge holes in things at close range but at long range it wouldn't be overpowered cause of the spread.

Had another thought, If not a burst mode then have a minimum range where the damage is Increased, so at say, under 120m it does 1.5 damage per pellet or something to that effect.

Edited by Tarball, 18 April 2013 - 01:51 PM.

[Writer]

LBX is not a good brawler weapon - it lacks the necessary punch to brawl with, and other weapons can hurt lights more consistently so it's not even good for bird hunting.

Edited by Rhenis, 18 April 2013 - 01:52 PM.

[Zyllos]

The canister idea is what the LBX is suppose to be.

You can calculate at what time the canister is suppose to explode on a target but what if your aiming ahead of a target (to hit) but you do not have it as a target? It's impossible to determine at what delta time to explode the canister without knowing a range.

So, the only thing I can think of is that it explodes immediately outside the LBX barrel but then that looks extremely strange.

I guess you could ray trace the canister every server update and check to see if the canister is within 50m of a solid target in front of it. If so, explode, releasing the canister.

But what does the LBX canister do in case someone shoots it at the horizon and a target walks into it? Does it deal nothing?

This needs to be figured out as the LBX/2 will soon be coming when the Clans is introduced and the current implementation of the LBX is underwhelming.

Edited by Zyllos, 18 April 2013 - 02:01 PM.

[Nihtgenga]

The lacking punch is not necessarily LBX-inherent, that is more a matter of no LBX-20 version being available in IS by the current point of the timeline...
I think the LBX-10 is one of the few quite well-implemented things right now. Compared to an AC/10 in brawling, it is sacrificing pinpoint damage for easier targeting by the firing cone of the submunitions of the LBX-round, which below the bottom line equals out in average performance.
If you believe you are good enough in targeting, take an AC/10. If you are believing that you're not, you can take the LBX.

[Nihtgenga]

Zyllos, on 18 April 2013 - 01:59 PM, said:

The canister idea is what the LBX is suppose to be.

Just implement it as a flechette-shotgun type weapon in game mechanics, and you're fine. Difference to the airburst flechette canisters is that the flechettes are only held together by a kind of cup in the unfired round, which discards at the muzzle, resulting in an expanding cone of flechettes from muzzle onward. The bigger the distance to and the size of the target, the less flechettes are likely to hit the target. Relatively simple logic, no problems with calculation when people walk into your fire.

[FenixK17]

Maybe implement the spread as a cone + cylinder. So at a certain range it will no longer spread. As illogical as it sounds, the problem with the LBX is the insane spread at max range (yeah I know, it's not supposed to be a long range weapon.).