20 replies to this topic

[Caswallon]

I lol'd at the previous "topic" in this new shiny sub forum.

Still could this be some sort of inverted feed back for PGI?

While I also realise that as of the time of writing we are just coming off a big focus on Assault Mechs nonetheless I noticed a very sharp drop in the numbers of lights in the matches I played in the last week or so. In fact I think there has appeared to be a slight drop over all. That may have just been the randomness of my matches I suppose but even so.

So are lights effective in MWO? Surely thats a bold statement that will get the juices going? Or is it that they are harder to play than a good middleweight like the Hunchie or a decently configured Heavy?

With all the emphasis on damage done in the current game set up they will never be popular as; well hello "Light" can't carry too many heavy weapons... Yes the Jenny pilots and a few others manage to hold up the honour of Lights in general with their Laser barrages but still can we have some more recognition of the true roles of lights please. IE Scouting/Capping.

So love 'em or hate 'em tell us why you feel the way you do about lights here. Maybe those that play them will realise why they get mugged coz they are being annoying little **** and don't realise it. I almost don't dare play my 3L at present as well with all the hate on it you get hunted down. This means its either very good at what it does (& so are all its pilots) or its OP. Which is it folks.

Have at it!

[Megaduce Flare]

I think the drop in lights is a combination of 'New Toy Syndrome' with the Highlander, the recent assault tourney, & the changes to the matchmaking system PGI's been making so that, theoretically, 8 light newb pugs don't run up against a coordinated assault 8-man.

As for "Are lights effective in MWO?" It all depends on the pilot, their set up really, & what role they're trying to play in.

I run my Spider 5D pretty much all the time now & I die in it with just as much frequency, but I've been having fun with it nonetheless. Those C-Bils & XP aren't going to grind themselves after all.

Since I've been getting lousy (single-digit) FPS on my computer since the Heavy Metal update & can't hit the broadside of a McKenna, I've been trying to play "Cap Warrior Online: Conquest Mode" with my 30-ton bug, & I've had a degree of success with that. However, its rare that a match ends with me still alive, most of the enemy team dead, & my team's point total has enough of a head start that I can easily avoid the other team while capping. While this does happen, usually on Alpine or Tourmaline (the two maps I actually have winning records on, go figure), it requires more luck than skill to pull off.

Typically what happens for me is either the team I'm on steamrolls the opposition, rendering my capping useless (if I'm lucky, I can bag a disco before that happens), or my team gets steamrolled early on while I'm off capping & the remaining opposition has enough brains to split up & cap. Not wanting to drag things out, most of the time, I tend to call out a spot & then die in a ball of fire.

Your mileage may vary.

Edited by Megaduce Flare, 24 April 2013 - 05:29 AM.

[ggnl]

Lights will be more useful in the scouting role if LRMs are ever made useful again. Before the nerf, you didn't have to do huge damage as a light to be effective. If you could keep someone targeted and stay alive, then the friendly LRM boats would do the damage for you. Conversely, good players knew that being targeted by a light meant LRM salvos would be incoming shortly, so finding cover took priority to eliminating the light, thus contributing to the survivability of the scout.

It's just too dangerous these days to harass the enemy's back lines because they consist entirely of snipers. Now that 30-45 damage pinpoint alphas are the norm, it only takes one lucky shot to leave you dead or heavily damaged.

[Khanublikhan]

ggnl, on 24 April 2013 - 09:30 AM, said:

Lights will be more useful in the scouting role if LRMs are ever made useful again. Before the nerf, you didn't have to do huge damage as a light to be effective. If you could keep someone targeted and stay alive, then the friendly LRM boats would do the damage for you. Conversely, good players knew that being targeted by a light meant LRM salvos would be incoming shortly, so finding cover took priority to eliminating the light, thus contributing to the survivability of the scout.

It's just too dangerous these days to harass the enemy's back lines because they consist entirely of snipers. Now that 30-45 damage pinpoint alphas are the norm, it only takes one lucky shot to leave you dead or heavily damaged.

This. Until LRM's are looked at, there is not so much a benefit to sneaking really deep into enemy lines, unless you are *really* good at it. Some maps, simply arent suited for deep reconnaissance without the threat of LRM's from your team forcing the enemy to keep their head's low.

My advice? Don't push too deeply into enemy territory. Focus on getting some intel on the enemy, but be more precious about shedding that armour. Follow up your team-mates with opportunity shots on exposed enemies where you can. Make your opponents work hard to kill your mech.

[Eboli]

I have just started running as a group of 2-3 competent Jenner players and have found that we can be very effective in most games - especially on the bigger maps.

The ability to draw attention of the bigger mechs as a diversion can create a great opportunity for our larger sized mech allies to take advantage of the chaos cannot be dismissed as a very valid tactic.

Stepping on base is also useful and even capping is a very valid tactic.

Death of a 1000 cuts - yep certainly.

Cheers,
Eboli

[BoPop]

it's true, LRM's being next to worthless has made "recon" also weak, or unimportant, ergo, lights are weak and unimportant.

i mean, it always helps your team to light up the badguys with the R button, but.... but....

but if LRM's actually hurt, then hearing "Targeted" is scary! right now, targeting a badguy is actually more dangerous for yourself, it simply lets him know that someone is in his line of sight. most players aren't thinking, "oh no, i bet i'm about to get LRM'd" they just think "who's targeting me?" and look around and then blast him with dual gauss or duall ac20 or six ERPPCs

so i dunno, l do have the most fun in my lights but as for them being useful? i feel more useful in my jagermechs tbh, or even my shiney new highlander.

[Caswallon]

Oh Goody! I start a topic and get a few replies! (Makes a change LOL!)

Yeah the current Nerfage (Is that word?) of LRMS really cuts down the spotting aspect. I was toying with adding a Narc as another poster mentioned but decided to go with the conventional SRM load out instead. It'd be nice to sneak behind a group and narc them all but if nobody much is missile firing why bother Sigh!?

So far I like to sprint off a little way on my own and top where I can survey possible approaches of the enemy. If I spot movement then I'll type grid co ords in for the rest of the crew - just in case somebody is reading them problem is I have "spotted" heaps of mechs like this but as my sensors didn't catch them due to ECM/range etc I get no recognition by the game mechanics Pity but I can deal with that as I i'm not sure HOW the game would know what I have seen purely visually. If my spotting advice is bad or my team mates just don't wanna use it then c'est la guerre.

Next I'll position to either cap or sneak in from behind on the enemy groups sometimes. Even though all my lights can snipe with one weapon at least its not so satisfying. So after a while I prefer to make a slashing attack at the back of of a unit, occasionally it makes one or more turn to me so the rest of my team can now back shoot them Usually I get pretty toasted but most often get away.

I do get amused by folks that curse when I or another cap base on an Assault game. Sorry that's the rules if you want my light to march down to your poptart just to give you another easy kill look elsewhere. I'll get my kicks wherever I can, and a cap win on assault is still a win. Period.

[RootBeerBaron]

I played as a Jenner a while back in CB, and after the last wipe, always swore I would come back to it. The last couple of weeks I have been playing mostly Jenners, and it has been great. I have noticed fewer lights running around in general, which really makes it easier to harass the fatlases and jump-snipers, since you can escape unharmed, or even better, unnoticed.

My favorite mech is a swayback, so by instinct I really can't let go of a good opportunity to cripple or kill a damaged opponent. I'm averaging 1.5 kills per match, and I'd say a good 25%-33% of my kills are straight in the back.

"Are lights effective?" Well, for my play style, I see myself as a bird of prey. I analyze the enemy position and weaknesses, and jump to attack when it is most opportune for me to wreak some havoc. Capping is nice and all, but nothing beats killing (or legging) an enemy mech. I count my "effectiveness" by how much I can cripple the enemy team before they cripple mine.

I'm really enjoying piloting a light again, and I will re-up my membership to the club of lights.

[WVAnonymous]

I'll reinforce the thread on the "no point in scouting until LRMs come back". Until then, you can be harassing cavalry, but ECM makes scouting in the sense of putting red triangles on your team's screens not too useful.

If we had a map 16 times the size of Alpine with a 60 minute timer, I would run lights all day long.

[Shuyen]

I've been a sucker for punishment and running a SDR-5D lately, with ECM and a TAG. One of the amazing things to me is how easy it is on Alpine or a few other maps to get behind enemy lines and TAG. But, you're right, unless you have a really good team that'll take advantage of it and LRM's are made effective? It's more for grins, pretending to be a Ninja than it is useful. But it is REALLY fun. At least for me.

So I've added a ERPPC. I figure, hey, if I am there with all those thinly armored backs staring at me from 700m, I may as well hit a few. When their lights come looking, I just get out of there. A SDR isn't up to dogfighting a Raven or Commando SRM machine, anyways.

I liken it to being a high speed, behind the lines spotter and sniper.

Edited by Shuyen, 25 April 2013 - 11:00 AM.

[Ors Darklighter]

I just recently came back from taking a break and am loving using both the Raven 3L and the SPD-5D. I'm finding the Spider to be my go-to now, seems as if the speed, jump jets and single ER-PPC are much more fun than the Raven.

I'm looking forward to seeing how I can improve my play style as changes are made.

[One Medic Army]

BoPop, on 24 April 2013 - 09:35 PM, said:

it's true, LRM's being next to worthless has made "recon" also weak, or unimportant, ergo, lights are weak and unimportant.

i mean, it always helps your team to light up the badguys with the R button, but.... but....

but if LRM's actually hurt, then hearing "Targeted" is scary! right now, targeting a badguy is actually more dangerous for yourself, it simply lets him know that someone is in his line of sight. most players aren't thinking, "oh no, i bet i'm about to get LRM'd" they just think "who's targeting me?" and look around and then blast him with dual gauss or duall ac20 or six ERPPCs

so i dunno, l do have the most fun in my lights but as for them being useful? i feel more useful in my jagermechs tbh, or even my shiney new highlander.

As far as I'm concerned, relying on a LRM boat to be useful as a scout is bunk, regardless of how powerful LRMs are.
Knowing where the enemy is is useful regardless of the presence or absence of LRMs, and most lights can put enough hurt onto the rear armor of enemy mechs to be a threat without having to hold targets for 5+ seconds and hope the missiles don't hit a building...

The power of a light mech is speed and maneuverability, tethering yourself to an enemy mech for long enough to guide in missiles is asking to get fragged with HSR implemented.

[BoPop]

One Medic Army, on 25 April 2013 - 02:24 PM, said:

relying on a LRM boat to be useful as a scout is bunk

yea i guess i used too many words to say

"I'd rather have a heavy or an assault on my team, than a light, any day of the week." Ya don't need scouts, or "recon" just tell your team to light up their targets and that will be good enough.

But having said that, lights are fun to play. I love 'em, and mediums.

[Regrets]

I'm pretty sure I'm >60% as 2D running conquest only. Lots of times you team just wipes and you die capping. Sometimes the other team doesn't ever cap and you get a free win.

If you run assault or all then things become very map dependent. I played assault a few times today with a 5D on alpine and it was nice fun. A couple of matches the spotting and identifying whether they were going to cap or brawl really helped the team get into position quickly. I ran this build, which got me a record I think for this chassis about 245 pts. (paperbag) It still worked out as good as any spider build I've run.

[Regrets]

205xl instead of 210xl from my mando incase anyone cares (whistles) Would be nice to have a 250xl, but I guess that will have the same problem since the 255xl weights the same.

[One Medic Army]

BoPop, on 25 April 2013 - 10:40 PM, said:

yea i guess i used too many words to say

"I'd rather have a heavy or an assault on my team, than a light, any day of the week." Ya don't need scouts, or "recon" just tell your team to light up their targets and that will be good enough.

But having said that, lights are fun to play. I love 'em, and mediums.

I'm sorry, did someone say Heavy/Assaults are just better?
http://steamcommunit...s/?id=141337284 <--Highest damage on team by a large margin. 10dmg short of highest damage in game.
http://steamcommunit...s/?id=141314421
http://steamcommunit...s/?id=141337299

Properly piloted you can get away with so much crap in a light mech. Every time I try and play my highlander I'm down to orange armor somewhere as soon as I move from cover.
In a Jenner I can circle around the enemy team, find someone weak, finish them off, and then run like heck with PPCs missing on all sides.

Edited by One Medic Army, 26 April 2013 - 01:27 AM.

[Xeno Phalcon]

Right now im playing a highly support oriented commando but when the Orion makes its debute i'll be swapping to that, till then i just dont care enough to grind for other mechs. I took a standard 2D stripped the weapons replaced them with a pair of SSRM2s, a flamer and of course a ECM.

I tend to find the biggest fattest mech on the field (thats on my side at least) that dosnt have ECM and babysit it unless a spider is around making itself annoying, then I ruin his day by flipping my ECM to counter. Also I find highlanders boxy shape makes it a great shield to hide behind.

[Ruutah]

Having only been playing about 2.5 weeks I guess I missed out on the LRM nerf. That being said when on TS or Vent I still spot. Being a Commando driver has taught me a lot about not sitting still unless I'm behind cover, and using cover to move from point to point. Just Friday(I only play Monday thru Friday from my office due to not having high speed access at home due to living in BFE) I spotted for a LRM boat to bring down an enemy Atlas, the LRM's were the only damage he received besides the single laser shot to his backside so I could get the assist. It's amazing how annoying I can be, and the fact that players will turn from brawling with another assault or heavy and turn to go after me ignoring the machine that has 5 to 10 times the weapons I do and concentrate on me with my single ERPPC. Only thing that would make me happier with my 'mando would be JJ and more armor, but I guess that's why I'm probably making the jump to a spider when I finish grinding out this last variant.

One thing I would tell new players, is grab a heavy or an assault to make money with, cause its hard to make a living as a light driver.

[Ruutah]

I have to ammend my comment, I finished grinding my last commando variant today. Had enough xp built up to unlock three of the 4 elite extras. I'm in love with my 'mando again! speed tweak with a 210XL 3xSSRM and a MLAS, went from cracking 100-150 damage a round to now I'm cracking 300. I need to figure out how to add a second ton of SSRM ammo, I'm running out 3/4 of the way through the match. If I had to do it over again I would probably only go with the 200XL the extra ton would give me the weight for another ton of ammo. oh well!

See you on the field!

Ruutah

EDIT: JJ would still be nice, I take more leg damage from running off cliffs/hills than I do from fire.

Edited by Ruutah, 02 May 2013 - 12:20 PM.

[KK4DUY]

Lights don't do much damage yes, but they do far more than they "should."

I remember back in the Mechwarrior 2 days - a Commando could mount a pair of small lasers (maybe a medium). I'm running around with an ER-PPC, something that you shouldn't be able to mount on mechs twice the tonnage!!