24 replies to this topic

[Leiska]

Having piloted practically only heavies and assaults, my recent dip into lights has given me very mixed results and I frequently feel kind of useless.

I'm running the "cheesy" 3L with a rather standard build of 3ML, 2SSRM and 295XL. It's very effective against other lights, but I find that letting big mechs even see me is a huge liability. Perhaps the mech just isn't fast enough without speed tweak, but I frequently have my legs one-shot to red internals even when running at full speed horizontally across the enemy's field of vision.

I always found lights an easy target on my AC/40 Jager and now that I'm in the Raven, opposing Jagers don't disappoint. It's just so easy to land a hit and that's pretty much all it takes to leg me and then I'm as good as dead.

Trying to stick to a heavy mech's dead zone by following its torso rotation behind its back gives me many free shots, but even the speedy Raven doesn't seem responsive enough to completely avoid the enemy reticle, so once the enemy eventually manages to aim at you, it's lights legs out instantly.

Specifically, leg vulnerability seems like a huge issue for the Raven. I don't think I've ever died to engine destruction or head shots. I always lose my legs, which is probably partially because people wisely aim at them, but It's like they accidentally always get the legs even when not trying. There's probably something wonky going on with the hit boxes because in my experience other lights (especially the super annoying Spider) are much harder to leg.

So if skirmishing with non-lights is out of the question, that only leaves capping, which is fine on conquest, but on small assault maps what tends to happen is that if I go for base cap, I'm soon surrounded by arriving heavies/assaults and get my legs shot to bits almost instantly as soon as I try to escape their net.

My K/D is 1.91, which is a fine number, though most of it is from dueling other lights. As soon as a bigger mech meddles, my legs are shot to outer space, so I feel like even those duels are really luck based. I can't even properly retreat because of the enemy light humping my back if I try.

Any advice from highly successful light pilots? I don't think my issues lie with piloting skills but rather my lack of understanding of how to most effectively utilize light mechs, resulting in too frequent poor positioning on the battlefield.

[Buckminster]

In my experience with lights (and the 3L in particular), I've found that there is no "magic answer".

HSR has made Ravens easier to hit, there's no getting around it. You used to be able to run between heavies and assaults with relative impunity, and that's just not the case anymore, so don't even try.

The biggest thing I've needed to learn with the addition of HSR is that it's okay to not fight. If I see a group of other heavies, I won't engage unless they are occupied. Even then, I tend to do strafing runs - zip in, place a few shots, zip out. I won't circle a heavy or an assault unless I have them one on one. Even then I'll occasionally break off and loop around some terrain, just to make my path less predictable.

3Ls are still good mechs, but they are only lights after all.

[Vallyn]

As you've already noted legs are an issue for most lights - especially the Raven. You're an anti-light and anti-medium mech build there, so your K/D is relatively good showing your piloting isn't the issue.

I would avoid base caps at all costs unless you are the last man standing (or its pretty evident your team is going to lose). It usually takes a few minutes for the slower mechs to leave the immediate area so unless you want to distract the enemy back to their cap point - leave the cap alone until at least 5 minutes into the game.

One of the keys to lights fighting heavies and assaults (when not in packs, and, even if you are in packs) is that you really don't want to be their primary target. Prioritize wounded mechs first who are stripped of armour, or alternatively shoot enemy mechs at range in the rear CT and then duck behind cover unless they are ignoring you.

Mostly the job is. . .don't get noticed, don't get shot. The first one, leads to the second, and with the new HSR most heavies or assaults can one shot you - and a good pilot will quit easily.

Let your team wittle them down, strip their armour, and then use your own speed to let you focus fire on the stripped components.

If you have a teammate - one distracts in front, the other shoots them in the back. And switch it up constantly as you fight the enemy. It confuses them and allows someone to always be targetting their weak spots.

Multiple heavies or assaults versus one light . . . gg. Unless they are wounded or terrible shots.

[ohtochooseaname]

The problem with the 3L builds right now is that they are very close range, and the legs on the 3L are to weak to take much damage. With the sniper meta, this doesn't really give you much to do other than to sit back, providing ECM cover until someone tries to get in close. If you try to engage the enemy, you'll die rather quickly. I'd suggest the ERPPC spider if you're like me and you always want to be doing something. And yes, speed tweak is a huge factor in the survivability of a 3L.

[Khanublikhan]

I have a theory on the Raven (in MWO).

The Jenner has speed and jump jets to be able to jink and disengage from a push into enemy territory.
The Commando has speed and its small size to be able to jink and disengage.

The Raven, even with ECM, is typically built a little slower and has no jump jets for quick changes of direction to lose pursuers. It is intended (rp-wise) to be the mech to peek over a hill at mid-long range, spot enemies and sneak away; it is a mech to spot enemies, unobserved --from their rear-- and benefit your team with intel.

That is to say, the Raven is being abused in its role by venturing, observed, through the front lines of the opposing team. It just does not have, by default, the means to disengage as a close range fighter (the Commando and the Jenner are more suited).

If I can create a suitable build, my own future project is to be a Tag / Narc equipped LRM Raven that plays peekaboo behind the enemy. Sure, the damage and kills might not be high but the fun factor might be...

TL/DR.

Don't overextend into enemy territory. Be sneaky. A Raven is not a Commando or a Jenner or a Spider. (Raven implies Craven, implies sneaky, implies ninja.)

[ElLocoMarko]

I still occasionally get back-cored by a light because I am in fuego with a dangerous mech... Thanks to big alphas I have also front-loaded armor. A bonus for you. So use that. If you wingman with a friendly Jager they are very likely to demand the targets full attention (AC40 or dakka dakka... both draw fire)

Keep in mind that if you fire streaks from beyond 200m that AMS can shoot it down.

Everyone else seems to have it in the above comments.

[saagri]

Ive noticed being killed from leg shots alot too lately, also huge alphas to my torso. Ive changed my build by dropping the lasers, added an ER PPC, kept 2 streaks, and down graded my engine a bit. It seems to work, I can snipe in the opening rounds, I can still fight other lights, and I have just enough speed to kite the enemy if need be.

[Teh Beastor]

I agree with the kiting. I have won a few matches lately just being the last man standing and capping points, where assaults and heavies cant catch me. Any encounters from the front, or small maps make it hard to survive. I try to go around and then attack from the side or back. If they turn I run and try to get them to chase, if not I just site there and shoot them in the back. It seems as if its role right now is similar to the bird, always lurking on the periphery.

saagri, on 24 April 2013 - 12:06 PM, said:

Ive noticed being killed from leg shots alot too lately, also huge alphas to my torso. Ive changed my build by dropping the lasers, added an ER PPC, kept 2 streaks, and down graded my engine a bit. It seems to work, I can snipe in the opening rounds, I can still fight other lights, and I have just enough speed to kite the enemy if need be.

[TruePoindexter]

I do quite well with my 3L running the classical build. I'm putting together a video of some gameplay with it that will exam Raven play in the current meta. Some high level tips and tricks:

• Avoid other 3Ls - attrition fights are a waste of time. If you do encounter an enemy 3L drag them to your team for help.
  
• Crush other lights - this is what you're there for.
  
• Hit and run enemy big mechs - strike targets of opportunity trying to distract enemies or kill weakened ones.
  
• Don't be afraid to cap in assault - If you made it to the back of the enemy and no opportunities to harass present themselves start capping. You will either force a response or gain an easy win. Ignore complaining about capping.
  
• In conquest focus on capping - you're one of the fastest things on the field and strong enough to hold your own against other fast enemies. You should be constantly moving out to cap points.

[One Medic Army]

Nobody's mentioned it yet, so I'll chime in based on my (Jenner) experience.
The trick to fighting in a light mech is to only engage when it's advantageous to you; and when it's not, to concentrate on getting away unscathed.
There's several tricks I've learned to fighting (and running from) heavier mechs in a Jenner:

• Jink constantly: never run in a straight line, ever. Don't even keep a constant turn, cut your throttle randomly or mash A and D randomly to make yourself a hard target.
  
• Always try to engage from behind: even if someone's open in the front, come at them from behind, and just hold your shot until you see their front.
  
• Don't commit to any single target, ever: don't focus on any single target to the exclusion of others, take any and all available potshots. Also it's never a good idea to lock onto a single enemy and chase them, it makes you predictable.
  
• Use cover: If you break line of sight behind cover, take a moment to throttle down or change direction, anything so that it's not obvious when/where you'll emerge. If I'm engaging a single enemy I enjoy doubling back every so often, or stopping behind cover occasionally. If you stop you can hear the other mech's footsteps, and get a bead on their location.
  
• Don't be afraid to run away: I encourage running away any time you don't have an advantage over the other guy. Nothing wrong with letting loose an alpha into someone's back and then running away.
  
• Don't run through the enemy team ever: long past are the days when a light mech could run through the enemy team. Just don't, stay around the edges of their team.
  
• Avoid AC/20 Jagers. Don't fight them, every time I've ever gotten close to one since HSR I've lost a leg immediately (except the time I got headshot).

Edited by One Medic Army, 11 May 2013 - 01:29 PM.

[Blue Splint]

It's been mentioned but I'd like to insist that light mechs are much more vulnerable since the HSR for ballistics and PPC's. When I went through my spiders to master, it was so fun to troll the enemy and run through their lines, distracting everyone, dodging 80%+ of shots and spreading all the damage while your team took a good position on them. Now, one false move, one venture too deep, and not only can that ac40 jager one-shot you, anything with 4 ppc's can (there are more 4+ ppc or erppc builds now than ac40's I think, and they don't have to worry about wasting ammo on a miss). I spew profanity much more while playing lights now than any other class. It's just very unforgiving now, I feel like aside from Tourmaline and Alpine where distances can give you some space, lights are almost completely useless on all the other maps. I mean, you can still give your team ECM - that's pretty valuable - but if you're not in an ECM light, you're almost always going to feel like you'd be more useful in a mech of any other class.

Maybe a slight decrease to the speed of the PPC/ERPPC would mitigate this while simultaneously balancing out the sniper-heavy situation many are complaining about.

Edited by Blue Splint, 28 April 2013 - 03:18 PM.

[Eboli]

I posted this in a duplicate subject title but as this one seems to have more responses thought it best to add it here:

-------------------------------

Welcome to the world of light mech piloting Leiska and it is nice to see a heavy/assault pilot try out a fast mech and see how difficult it can be.

You WILL get better as you Master the Raven and start to learn the ropes for light mech play but basically your observation is correct - we have thin armour and most weapons will hurt us.

Try to team up with another light mech (or cicada) and learn the habit of not moving in a straight line for any length of time. Try to be aware of where all nearby enemy mechs are as well because if you let them see your back you will be in a world of hurt.

Situational awareness and thinking fast is so important and this may be the biggest issue you will need to adapt to as you have come from the slower mech variety which can take a few hits and shrug them off as you turn around and see what hit you. Some players can do this, others players can't, other players just don't want to learn (observation, not criticism).

Try not to take on larger mechs until the battle really starts as the enemy may be concentrating of the bigger mechs first but same rule applies - don't make yourself an easy target by running in front of them.

Another role you seriously need to do is play the role of light mech killer. With the greater percentage of mechs being of the slower variety faster mechs capping role has become an even larger strength to them. If the enemy loses their lights it can make a very large difference on game outcome as the pendulum in speed capping swings to your side.

Basically though - keep practicing with the lights and things start to fall into place. Get your mech mastered as the advantages are big (as you already know)

And most of all - have fun. Unfortunately not everyone does...

Cheers!
Eboli.

[Koniving]

Since no one favors the "lesser" Ravens more than I, I'll throw these in.

• Unlike the Raven 3-L, the Raven 4x is not a hit and run mech. It both lacks the speed or the ability to carry enough "fire and forget" streaks to matter.
  
• The Raven 4x has potential as a sniper, which falls in line with the scout role (sneak over a precipice, tag someone, and shoot a few PPCs or a gauss). Truthfully though, the 2X fills this role better.

Instead, the Raven 4x is best used in one of two ways:

• As an escort to brawler mechs. Brawlers need to keep their focus on the biggest thread and cannot fend off enemy lights. A brawler with an escort is a target too strong for a raven 3-L to linger around.
  
• As a brawler. No, seriously. The Raven 4X is perfectly capable and actually better at fulfilling the Hunchback 4G's role as an AC/20 turret. The Raven has better twist, can move faster with a 4 ton XL engine (allowing it to carry high armor and up to 5 tons of ammo with minimal armor sacrifice), and with 100% armor allocated to the front, can brawl toe to toe (while moving) with Atlases and win. Seriously.

• An alternative to the AC/20 is a single UAC/5 with a backup weapon, or twin AC/2s. This are more effective at range if you are nervous about brawling ranges. But with range come other issues; you're not fast enough to evade LRMs, and a single 4 PPC burst can kill you. People fighting at medium to long range tend to stand still for better accuracy -- putting yourself at risk.
  
• Trading 1 or 2 tons of ammo for a couple of small lasers and jump jets is a great idea during "light mech seasons," which allow you to vault up high to get away from circle strafers that slip behind a building every so many seconds. The lasers help feed in the damage to get it in faster, and allow you to still do something after you run out of ammo.
  
• Two shots is the minimum you need to kill anything, whether it's an Atlas or a Spider. Aim for the head. If your aim is poor, go for the leg (even the strongest armor on any light mech falls after two shots with the third guaranteeing a legging). Then do whatever you please.
  
• Never let anything behind you. The key to survival is 100% front armor. Even a machine gun can kill you from behind.
  
• Raven 4x has torso twist equal to that of the Catapult. You're a mini-K2 with the potential for jump jets to get into slick spaces. Act like it.

Remember, the only thing deadlier than an AC/20 Raven 4x in terms of brawling light mechs is a Gauss Spider or a UAC/5 + AC/2 Spider.

Deadliest Raven you ever faced.

Edited by Koniving, 28 April 2013 - 04:02 PM.

[Buckminster]

Eboli, on 28 April 2013 - 03:42 PM, said:

You WILL get better as you Master the Raven and start to learn the ropes for light mech play but basically your observation is correct - we have thin armour and most weapons will hurt us.

I'll second this.

I've been working through all three Raven chassis, and with the exception of the 3L, it's been tough. The 3L has both speed and ECM that the 2X and 4X do not, which makes it the much more forgiving of the chassis to learn on. When I first started with the 4X and 2X, I was terrible. And I mean terrible. I couldn't kill a darned thing, and seemed to be best suited for dying at the feet of other mechs. Part of it was just that the 4X and 2X are harder than the 3L due to slower speed and no ECM, and part of it was that I was playing them as if they were equal to a 3L. I'd load them up about the same, and try the same tactics. Difference was that it didn't work.

Now that I have Speed Tweak, and I'm finishing off the other Elite skills, my 4X and 2X are doing better. Still not as good as my 3L, but I'm learning. It really does just take time. But if you are willing to put the time in, lights are hella fun to play.

Edited by Buckminster, 29 April 2013 - 02:12 AM.

[Egoist]

I saw this mentioned a few times but its worth saying again, on my 3l i find dropping throttle with x then rethrottling makes a lot of balistics miss. It helps when you've run a balistic heavy since you get a better guess at when the shot is about to come.

I also rebound c to centre legs insted of centre torso, i found that using it in a light v light fight lets you stay on their back better and it helps with quick direction changes to throw shots off in combination with the above trick and rapidly moving your mouse hitting the centre legs key a few times. More erratic movement is good.

I see my role as early on finding the enemy, then light hunting or buzzing the base to turn people around. After that i focus on staying alive and harrassing to peel fire from my lance mates and try to put damage on armour stripped mechs. I think its even more important to stay alive on big maps as a light can swing a bad brawl over to a win.

Edited by Egoist, 29 April 2013 - 11:03 AM.

[Silentium]

The 3L is a good mech, not my favorite, but undeniably effective; you could do worse.

These guys are all right on, so I don't have much to add except that I have always had success by not straying out more than a square from my team. I will go further on conquest, but always feel a little antsy about it.

Also, aim for the legs, a lot of pilots keep ammo there. Even if they don't, they become easy backstabs. If you are a good shot, then go for the eyes as mentioned above.

[Karazyr]

i pilot a spider 5D (my wubly guren) i use a large laser+ 2 med lasers with ecm and lots of JJ

this build i dub: dont look down on me mother fu@kers
my job is to leg heavy's or heavily damage back armor.

oh and scouting, ocationaly.

[mailin]

Keep at it. In assault mode, practice patience. See where the enemy is going and try to get behind them and pick off the stragglers. Also, I wrote a pilot's guide to the 3L, which may have some good advice.http://mwomercs.com/...__fromsearch__1

[mailin]

Also, AC20 Jags seem to run with XL very often. If you can get behind one and fire into a side rear torso, well, let me just say it's a beautiful thing.

[KK4DUY]

Annoying people with my ER-PPC Commando is good fun. I die fairly quickly when someone finally decides to end me, but it's fun anyway.