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Newbie Cataphract Loadout. Suggestions More Than Welcomed!


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#1 Plaguicida

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 02:40 AM

Hi everybody,

it's been a long time for me since I played Mechwarrrior 2, and now I'm just rediscovering this amazing stuff of making big robots destroy each other.

I have just got a Cataphract, and have modified a little bit the standard loadout. Here is the result:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b3fe4a30c75f429

Any suggestions you could provide would me more than welcomed!

Thanks,

Plaguicida

Edited by Catalina Steiner, 09 March 2014 - 03:07 PM.


#2 Ayestes

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 05:20 AM

As purely an upgrade to what you have, double heat sinks almost always (99%+) of the time are a major upgrade for any mech. Always shoot for that first. By fitting that, you have better heat efficiency then you had previously and can fit another SRM4, set of Gauss Ammo, and SRM Ammo. It's also advantageous to fit your ammo into the arms and legs generally, so I pushed the ammo into there.

This leaves you with pretty much the same mech as you designed, only better:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...549d23c80bfb42d

As for additional suggestions, I actually run the 2X with Artemis and an AC/20. That kind of change would be up to you though, feel free to experiment. This would require you to take off Ferro-Fibrous though, which to be clear because it's a common mistake many make does not actually make you more durable then Standard armor. It only weighs slightly less at the expense of 14 critical slots. The inhibition is it would cost a fair few C-Bills to switch back, so that's why I gave you the first design above. Otherwise you can check out the shorter-ranged brawler variant below I like.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9886fc07944ffe1

#3 Plaguicida

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 05:43 AM

Many thanks Ayestes! I will make the changes you told me for a medium-distance fighter, but I will try out that brawler variant as soon as I can.

#4 Egoist

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 10:03 AM

I'd put the 5th ton of ammo in the head rather than the arm but it looks good for a brawler.

I prefer a bit of range that can be used up close as well, i normally shave off more leg armour as well. This build is similar to a zombie centurion build, rapid uac5 fire for dps, er lasers for extra long range and twin asrm4 for up close. You can use the empty right arm to shield your torso which is good for practice.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ae31d92681947ea

Its not perfect since i threw it together relatively quickly, standard llas would be more heat efficient but in the current meta i like the range. If you dropped some armour and the artemis the llas could be replaced with ppcs for more one hit punch.

#5 Slots

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 10:55 AM

View PostEgoist, on 29 April 2013 - 10:03 AM, said:

I'd put the 5th ton of ammo in the head...


This is a very good spot for ammo on a cataphract since their cockpit hitbox is so tiny now.

CTF-2X

I run a similar build, however I might be slightly crazy and run an XL340 in a brawling heavy. This was fine for a long time until many people decided that they all wanted to use some sort of ERPPC/Gauss combo that can strip armor pretty easily.

My reasoning behind this was better heat efficiency since I have a tendency to spam away all my weapons. I know the XL is a liability but I have found that the center torso of the cataphract likes to take many hits. It also gives me enough speed to scoot around the slow turning assaults to fire into their backs. I have just recently switched my SRM6s for SRM4+arty to get away from my face hugging ways. I also put the ERLL in the right arm for better firing angles.

Egoists build will probably be best suited for you as it does not require any heavy money investment on an XL engine and it has a higher alpha. This gives you much longer staying power.

As a side note, I switched my UAC5 for an LBX for a short time and somehow hit 1000+ damage on alpine. That is in no way what to expect from this as I average around 400 damage.

#6 CygnusX7

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 11:18 AM

This is how I'd run it.
Dump the missles, Endo, DHS, 280std, 2LL, 1 gauss. Bunch of ammo.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...0c83169cc7cfe49

AC/20 version.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...bd62e5d7e7cb412

Edited by CygnusX7, 29 April 2013 - 11:20 AM.


#7 Egoist

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 11:38 AM

Running the gauss version you posted of this mech i'd probably move all the weapons to torso mounts to make it easier to aim and alpha with. Once again i'd probably use er large rather than standard since your a low heat generator anyway but i like the er, i used to run double gauss on my muromets but i've really gone off them since the changes thats what rekindled my love of the ultra5.

Without the srms you can use both arms to soak damage but you could also lower the armour on the arms amd legs to upgrade your lasers to ppc, make a poor mans poptart. You might be able to drop a little ammo depending on how good your aim is and get a 3rd energy weapon on it.

#8 Plaguicida

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 06:03 AM

Hi all,

thanks for the comments... I guess for now (I don't have many CB) I will move the large laser to the torso, one medium laser to the arm, and some ammo to the head. Let's see if I can get some CB before addressing more changes.

On the other hand, after testing the Mech suggested by Ayestes (http://mwo.smurfy-ne...549d23c80bfb42d) I have realized it has a quite good long distance firepower (the large laser and the gauss) and decent medium range firepower (llaser, gauss + 2 medium lasers + 2 SRM).

But the SRM are being a little bit dissapointing for me. They make not very much damage. I guess the artemis could help with that? Or maybe I should just take the SRMs away and upgrade the lasers?

I also will try to change the gauss for ULTRA AC/5, and see if I can use the extra tons to change one medium laser to another large laser (to maintain long range firepower). My problem is that I like the low-heating combination L laser + Gauss hehe...

I will post the modified configuration after some tests. Again, thanks for the comments,

#9 Slots

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 07:12 AM

I always find it a shame to not utilize the only parts of the 2x that separate it from the 1x. If you find that the SRMs are not to your liking you could try using the 6 tons gained from removing them for other things. Artemis does not increase the damage directly, but it greatly reduces the spread that the SRMs have. Especially on SRM4, artemis will make the cluster of missiles a tiny ball compared to the spread without artemis.

If you do replace your Gauss with a UAC5, be sure to take some time in the testing grounds so you can learn some trigger control and reduce your jamming rate. Two LL and any form of heavy ballistics will deliver a decent punch.

OH and if you are using a gauss rifle. You do not need to put the ammo inside CASE, gauss ammo does not explode.

I messed around with removing the SRMSs and Ferro-Fibrous to get you 2 LL, Gauss, and a medium on your arm. Granted this build would make much better use of the hardpoints on a CTF-1X allowing you to have more firing angles with arm mounted lasers.

CTF-2X

You could replace the LL with ERLL if you wished, but that would lower your heat efficiency by a hefty amount

#10 Egoist

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 07:36 AM

The cooling efficiency on that is really high, which is good and bad. Good because you are unlikely to overheat but bad because you could be more effective in shorter engagements with a lower heat efficiency.

You could drop a heat sink, remove some armour from the empty arm and improve your mech. I would also take the heatsink out of the engine and put it in the right torso to pad the large laser from crits. I am currently going through a love affair with lplas and i honestly cannot recommend them enough for torso weapons.

#11 Slots

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 07:48 AM

View PostEgoist, on 30 April 2013 - 07:36 AM, said:

The cooling efficiency on that is really high, which is good and bad. Good because you are unlikely to overheat but bad because you could be more effective in shorter engagements with a lower heat efficiency.


Probably around 30-40% should be fine I suppose, but I have a tendency to just fire everything when they come off CD when in close quarters which makes overheating a terrible idea and much more likely to happen. This makes all my builds try to become somewhat heat neutral on non tourmaline/caustic maps.

People with better trigger control could probably get by with less. You a right about the engine heatsink since there is space for it to pad the weapon. About the arm armor though, it could be used as a shield arm but I am not sure how well it works compared to a Cent or Awesome left arm.

#12 Egoist

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 07:56 AM

Oh it works but even with lower armour it still has all the internals to shield with, i like packing a bigger weapon. I fid smurfy's makes mechs look more heat efficent than they really are in game but i run a very hot 3d, fire control in brawls is hard but it does force you to manage your heat more.

I did kill myself with internal damage from overriding my heat gauge 2v1ing an atlas and a highlander so more sinks is good, but with less weapons i don't think i would have downed the atlas before i went. Very much down to personal preference.

#13 Regrets

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Posted 01 May 2013 - 12:02 PM

10 DHS = 10 SHS

so with >250 engine it is always DHS.

#14 Plaguicida

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 04:58 AM

Hi again,

I've been testing the CTF-2X with this loadout:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...58c7c53b73f5de3

I replaced the two SRM4 by an SRM6+ARTEMIS IV to check if I got more hits with it. But at the end it's not being very useful... few damage delivered when compared against the other weapons I'm using and only a 14.5% hits (the same I had with the 2 SRM4).

I was thinking about moving to this configuration:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...fb7436b8629562e

I maintain the long range punch (LLASER + GAUSS), increase one medium laser to Medium pulse laser... and change the SRM6+ARTEMIS IV by two SSRM2, after reading those missiles are very good against light targets (never test them before).

What do you think? Again, suggestions are more than welcomed!

Btw, I maintained the CASE for the gauss rifle (gauss ammo does not explode, but gauss rifle does). If CASE is useless because it does not protect against gauss rifle explosions, please let me know so I can save 0.5 tons more hehe...

Edited by Plaguicida, 06 May 2013 - 04:59 AM.


#15 CygnusX7

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 07:01 AM

Considering it has just 4 missle tubes I agree that 2 Streaks would be better than an SRM4/6 even with artemis.
With this config I can't help but put a useful energy weapon in the right arm. In the torso you're limited to where you can shoot which is why I like to put an ERPPC in the right arm.

RA: ERPPC
LA: 2xSSRM
LT: mL
RT: AC/20, mL
4 tons of ac20 ammo in the legs.
1 ton of streak ammo in the arm (might want to put it somewhere safer).
STD 275 - 70.0KPH with speed tweak.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...51525cb9ea17203

Edited by CygnusX7, 06 May 2013 - 07:03 AM.


#16 Cyke

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 06:49 AM

View PostPlaguicida, on 06 May 2013 - 04:58 AM, said:

... I was thinking about moving to this configuration: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...fb7436b8629562e I maintain the long range punch (LLASER + GAUSS), increase one medium laser to Medium pulse laser... and change the SRM6+ARTEMIS IV by two SSRM2, after reading those missiles are very good against light targets (never test them before). What do you think? Again, suggestions are more than welcomed! Btw, I maintained the CASE for the gauss rifle (gauss ammo does not explode, but gauss rifle does). If CASE is useless because it does not protect against gauss rifle explosions, please let me know so I can save 0.5 tons more hehe...
Yes, CASE does protect against Gauss rifle explosions.
Additionally, there is a high chance the CASE will take effect on your build. As a 70 tonner, the CTF chassis has 30 points of internal structure on the side torsos, and Gauss Rifle explosion does 20 damage.
So in the event that your RT loses all armor, and enemy fire does another 10 damage to your internal structure (down below 20 hitpoints of structure) and at the same time crits the Gauss Rifle, the explosion will damage your CT's internal structure. This scenario is highly likely (actually almost guaranteed) if your RT takes enough hits to damage its structure. Thus, the CASE is almost guaranteed to make a difference if your RT takes a beating.

However in my opinion (purely my opinion), I think that 11 DHS does not dissipate enough heat to run a Large Laser, Medium Pulse Laser and Medium Laser effectively if you get into a brawl. That's 16 heat from your lasers, and 4 from your two Streak packs, for a total of 20 heat, every 4 seconds. Furthermore, all three lasers have different range, so it gets complicated to optimize your damage while keeping heat down.
IMO I'd recommend downgrading the Medium Pulse Laser to a normal Medium Laser , (2 MLas and 1 LLas) reducing the heat, simplifying weapon groups and target ranging (a group for your arm LLas, another group for two torso MLas). With the ton freed up from the downgrade, add another DHS, and you can generally sustain the lasers more easily.
That's just how I feel though, not a hard fact.

Edit: Hmm just noticed your slots are full as well. Personally I'd ditch the Ferro Fibrous armor (even though it's saving you 1.4 tons right now), and lower the armor on your legs. Around 40 to 45 armor on a Heavy's legs is enough, nobody's going to try to leg a Heavy (and if they do you'll core them first).
Also, I think 1 ton of SSRM ammo might be enough (assuming the 2 tons of SRM ammo is meant to be SSRM ammo), it'll take your Streak launchers 87.5 seconds, almost 1½ minutes to use up 1 ton.
Then if you change the Med Pulse to a Med and add a DHS, also take the DHS out of your engine and stuff them both into the same location as your Large Laser to pad it from crits.

Edited by Cyke, 08 May 2013 - 07:01 AM.


#17 Regrets

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Posted 12 May 2013 - 09:19 PM

View PostCyke, on 08 May 2013 - 06:49 AM, said:

Yes, CASE does protect against Gauss rifle explosions.
Additionally, there is a high chance the CASE will take effect on your build. As a 70 tonner, the CTF chassis has 30 points of internal structure on the side torsos, and Gauss Rifle explosion does 20 damage.


Neither the Gauss or its ammo explode as far as i know.

#18 AtomCore

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 05:05 AM

sugesting this or that

Edited by AtomCore, 20 May 2013 - 05:09 AM.






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