61 replies to this topic

[Puppeteerxerxes]

Dalziel Hasek Davion, on 19 May 2013 - 02:13 AM, said:

I pilot assaults and lights and what Iron Savior said initially is mostly correct. *If* you mount small weapons (low alpha, low DPS), it makes more sense to aim for parts of the enemy that a friendly assault is aiming for - and has stripped armour from - even if that is the front of the 'Mech.

I might disagree on aiming for the legs, rather than the rear. My Stalker has 72 armour on the legs and carries no ammo there. Even with an alpha of 20 (moderately-armed light), my light will not punch it quick enough - and will not destroy it. However, rear side torso armour is often scaled compared to head armour, few assault 'Mechs carry much more than 18 armour in the side torso rear - and my 'puny' 20 damage alpha can often penetrate in one hit, if I'm good and he's occupied.

I am nervous of ducking in and out of brawling assaults given the papier-mache that covers my 'Mech. Assaults do, often, aim for the Light 'Mech because killing an 'ankle biter' in one alpha is hugely rewarding, and can remove a lots of guns and aggravation from a brawl quicker than taking an assaults torso armour away and hoping for a crit. Your assertion that people shoot the assault and not the light is not backed up by my experience - and that gives me pause when I'm piloting a light. As does the risk of shooting the friendly assault in the rear - and what that pilot might do if he considers this 'not an accident'.

So - I think both sides of the arguments have merit and your original point - which was "think about whether shooting them in the front would be more effective use of your time" is a good one. All that is required from light pilots is being more aware and smarter than a brawling assault pilot needs to be.

I totally agree with this man. It's one of the better said posts I've seen in a while. Kudos for bringing some focus.

[LapsedPacifist79]

+1

But that's the thing isn't it? The assualt won't always draw the fire. In fact most of the time if you put your light anywhere close to the line of fire then that LL Stalker will take a potshot. And if it hits..... 0-1.

[scJazz]

I think it is difficult for assault pilots whose weapon load out alone weighs more than my entire mech to have a sense of perspective on what it takes for a light or even medium pilot to exist on the MWO battlefield.

[KrazedOmega]

I think the OP is seriously underestimating the power of some light mechs. In my 6 ML Jenner F I can punch through the rear armor of most heavies with one alpha and most assaults with two. While you're keeping him occupied I can be damaging internals before you can get through the more heavily armored front. And they may even turn to see who's attacking them from behind, giving you free shots on them.

Of course it all depends on the current situation. If I see orange or red internals on the front of a mech I'll swing around to the front and target them but I'm not about to hang around there long and make myself a target.

[mailin]

Daimon Wolf, on 19 May 2013 - 01:32 PM, said:

I have personally in a light mech engaged up to four heavy/assault mechs while flying solo, granted I got no kills, but my team won by virtue of only having to face two waves of four mechs rather then a concerted assault,. generally if I survive my harassment runs (string the enemy out, let them walk into my teams grinder one at a time) THEN i'll swing back and run through their formation from the rear, nail one guy in the back then move on while he turns and tries to find me, nail the next in the back and so on. this is a HUGE distraction to enemy pilots. Has anyone else had the amusing experience of spending five minutes leading an enemy lance on a merry chase while your team rips them a new one?

This works very well, as long as the rest of your friendlies stay together and let you do your job. What I typically find is that a third of my team decides to follow even though they aren't as agile as me. Then they start to die and I get all weepy.

[Hauser]

Don't shoot the rear when:

• The front armor is red or gone.
  
• You won't stick around long enough to make it a kill

[Kapre]

Currently playing Highlander. If your a light don't stay in front or where the arms/guns pointing. Light pilots with lots of patience are more successful on Assault vs Light - one on one.

Thanks to the dead teammates in provoking light pilots to fight with assault in face to face combat.

Turn around jump shot is a nice way of killing light Mech.

[Dawnstealer]

As someone that plays brawling assaults (Stalker) and lights (Cicadas and Spiders), I can safely say that if I'm in a brawl with an assault and some light wants to blast away on the back of the assault? Fine by me.

Honestly, I don't care who gets the kill. I kind of agree that just shooting at random isn't real helpful, so focus and aim those shots at parts that are already hurting so the rear side torso if the front's about to go, or at the arms. Especially the arms. Help slice off an Atlas' arms, and you just took out (usually) 18+ points of damage from that mech (if they're rocking the LLs or ERLL).

With my own deathblimp, I know that my rear armor won't take a lot of punishment, and while I'm occasionally taken down by a fellow assault (or several), my deaths usually come at the hands of a pair or trio of lights. Even if their fire isn't focused, it's a death by a million papercuts and it's really frustrating. Frustrating, but effective.

If I'm brawling and an enemy light joins the fight, I might pause in hammering away at the other assault to take a shot of opportunity at a light that's just sitting there. If I can one-shot them, I mean: that's 20+ less points of damage I have to worry about in a salvo. If the light is moving, or behind me, that isn't an option.

To the OP, my suggestion would be to load up a Light and pilot it for a few games. Suddenly a lot of those things Lights do will make a lot of sense. "Why do some lights go for the cap instead of brawl?" for example, is easily answered with: "Because they live about five seconds in a brawl and accomplish nothing, where capping can 'win' a game for their team."

So as a mainly assault pilot, I get the frustration, OP, but as a sometimes Light pilot, I don't blame them for hiding out behind the enemy heavy and trying to punch their own holes. One way or the other, that mech is going to start screaming 'critical damage,' then it's all over.

Edited by Dawnstealer, 20 May 2013 - 07:23 AM.

[Dawnstealer]

Kapre, on 20 May 2013 - 04:39 AM, said:

Currently playing Highlander. If your a light don't stay in front or where the arms/guns pointing. Light pilots with lots of patience are more successful on Assault vs Light - one on one.

Thanks to the dead teammates in provoking light pilots to fight with assault in face to face combat.

Turn around jump shot is a nice way of killing light Mech.

And this - I had a moment yesterday where a Jenner decided to charge me head-on while I was at the Theta spot in River City. I took one shot with my lasers, just to discourage them (28 points - 4ML 1LL), but they kept coming right at me. Well, my full alpha completely took them out instantly (64 points). That right there is a good reason for Lights to NEVER come at an enemy assault mech from the front.

[MasterBLB]

Could you Iron Savior tell me why should I go in front of an Atlas/Stalker while I am able to outmaneuver them with my Jenner and stay forever at their back?And how many mine 25 damage alphas their side rear armor will endure,what you think?

Edited by MasterBLB, 20 May 2013 - 07:38 AM.

[Stokes52]

Just the other day I was in my Spider 5D and I was flanking enemy Atlas when I noticed that its front armor was destroyed, its core was in the red, and its back was fully armored. It was pulling back behind a hill from a brawl so that it could use its LRMs from safety.

I did the sensible thing: I JJ'd right in front of it, placed two dual pulse laser alphas into its chest, and watched as the 100-ton monster crumpled into the dirt.

Usually its a very bad idea to jump in front of an Atlas. In this case, it was the most sensible thing I could do. These things take discernment.

[Cubivorre]

LapsedPacifist79, on 19 May 2013 - 01:53 PM, said:

Agreed. Although I see OP's point, when I'm in my big mechs I love a fast mover providing some distraction in the rear. I can't count how many games I've won/lost due to such tactics. On the other hand, watching one of our lights getting his legs blown off by PPCs is not good. Especially when he should have been behind or to the side of them doing enough damage to make them turn away, saving my life and ending theirs.

And I'm very touched you quoted me in your sig Cubivorre. I meant every word. You are all mental...

Sorry for the mild hijack.

Edited: For vitriol.

Minor threadjack... I'm a trendsetter - I see another person using your quote. mailin.
And if you check out the ERPPC spdr-5d guide I used it as part of it.

On topic: shoot backs moar n stuff

Edited by Cubivorre, 20 May 2013 - 01:52 PM.

[Skadi]

Cubivorre, on 20 May 2013 - 01:51 PM, said:

Minor threadjack... I'm a trendsetter - I see another person using your quote. mailin.
And if you check out the ERPPC spdr-5d guide I used it as part of it.

On topic: shoot backs moar n stuff

*throws rock at cubivorre* You made me buy a light

[ZeProme]

Everyone else who is a medium and light pilot pretty much what I wanted to say always.

Nope, I don't want to see the front. The back is better and I love rap-- I mean, damaging the enemy mechs from behind

[Ramien]

As a light pilot, where I'll target an enemy depends a lot on the situation. If I've got a big red glowing area on the enemy, I'll target that if I can do it while avoiding friendly fire and enemy fire. If it's a big scrum of 'Mech violence anyway, I'm going to try and stay outside the big mess, shooting people in the back and sides rather than risk the massive amounts of crossfire.

[Parliment]

Senseless post ........ inflamitory remark ..... insulting statement ..... ect ect

[Harleen Quinzel]

Personally I am staying behind the target mech, using him to LoS from your (any fattie's) alpha. I am fed up to the back teeth of circling a mech as it turns, staying out of their arc of fireonly to get some fat ***** alpha in my rear torso as all they see is the Atlas or whatever and not me. I am sure that if we could see (let alone penalise) friendly fire damage a lot of lights would run for cover at the sight of their PuG group, let alone the enemy.

As for target, its depends on what I see on the mech in front of me. I agree that a bad light will ignore what is shown on his readout and just go CT is goooooddddddd when one alpha will remove a side torso, arm and as a previous poster wrote, if its an XL engine blow him up. However legs on fatties are rarely a good place to strike unless your on your own - unless its a pop tart who's stripped his own armour (the Highlander I killed the other day due to removal of both their legs will attest to this).

So to fatties if you want us to do this, think once, think twice, think light.....

To lights, help your fatties by not just targeting the CT, but look at the status of the enemy mech and adjust your fire accordingly.

[ssm]

KrazedOmega, on 19 May 2013 - 06:00 PM, said:

I think the OP is seriously underestimating the power of some light mechs. In my 6 ML Jenner F I can punch through the rear armor of most heavies with one alpha and most assaults with two. While you're keeping him occupied I can be damaging internals before you can get through the more heavily armored front. And they may even turn to see who's attacking them from behind, giving you free shots on them.
(...)

This. I've taken down a lot of Landers and Atlases from behind before my assault/heave mech's teammates managed to pierce threir front armor.

90% of the assault pilots have around 20-30 pts of rear CT armor, so simple match says the best way for a light to fight them is hugging their back. Not to mention the distruptive psychological effect of internals suddenly flaring up in orange.

Edited by ssm, 21 May 2013 - 02:31 AM.

[Iron Savior]

Dawnstealer, on 20 May 2013 - 07:23 AM, said:

To the OP, my suggestion would be to load up a Light and pilot it for a few games. Suddenly a lot of those things Lights do will make a lot of sense. "Why do some lights go for the cap instead of brawl?" for example, is easily answered with: "Because they live about five seconds in a brawl and accomplish nothing, where capping can 'win' a game for their team."

I played a jenner and fast swayback religiously in cbt because it was the only fun aside from a k-2 with gauss. Spiking people in the back only worked if I got in their early or it was a lighter mech (I don't have this problem in the hunchback obviously)

If I saw an assault and another assault shooting eachother, I'd initially spray the rear armor, and after judging the situation - I literally assess the ***** - decide to circle, stay behind, or move to a 3-ish o clock position to damage frontal armor when I can.

If you can pierce rear armor go ahead. I think I said that. If you could do that I'd probably prefer it unless you were at 100%, then I'd like you to try and off-tank via evasion. It's very possible, I've done it and it happens to me constantly when I have ballistics.

I only play heavies and assaults now because I decided th game was worth spending more cash on (cbt sorta gave me a bad taste after a while), so I went for th biggest, hardest to get mechs. But the cool ones, I don't play atlases.

By the time you've done two alpha's for like 18-25 damage on a decent day, some splashed off and missed and the rest spread along two parts of the torso, I've about done two alphas, and the RT is almost at internals if it isn't already. If you're some light who managed to shove 18 ppcs up his *** like a champ I'm glad for you, but you're the exception, not the rule.

Edited by Iron Savior, 21 May 2013 - 02:40 AM.

[Dawnstealer]

Iron Savior, on 21 May 2013 - 02:38 AM, said:

I played a jenner and fast swayback religiously in cbt because it was the only fun aside from a k-2 with gauss. Spiking people in the back only worked if I got in their early or it was a lighter mech (I don't have this problem in the hunchback obviously)

If I saw an assault and another assault shooting eachother, I'd initially spray the rear armor, and after judging the situation - I literally assess the ***** - decide to circle, stay behind, or move to a 3-ish o clock position to damage frontal armor when I can.

If you can pierce rear armor go ahead. I think I said that. If you could do that I'd probably prefer it unless you were at 100%, then I'd like you to try and off-tank via evasion. It's very possible, I've done it and it happens to me constantly when I have ballistics.

I only play heavies and assaults now because I decided th game was worth spending more cash on (cbt sorta gave me a bad taste after a while), so I went for th biggest, hardest to get mechs. But the cool ones, I don't play atlases.

By the time you've done two alpha's for like 18-25 damage on a decent day, some splashed off and missed and the rest spread along two parts of the torso, I've about done two alphas, and the RT is almost at internals if it isn't already. If you're some light who managed to shove 18 ppcs up his *** like a champ I'm glad for you, but you're the exception, not the rule.

Agreed that if the assault has tunnel vision, you can just sit a little off to the side (that the assault is focusing on, hopefully, and not just spray-and-pray) and plink them until they die, no matter what you're packing (my CDA has a Gauss and MPL, my Spider has two MPLs and a ML), you can help out.

The problem is when that assault mech is paying attention and knows that an unchecked Jenner or ERPPC-armed Spider (HOW??) can plow through their tender rears in a matter of a volley or two. A good assault pilot never just wades into combat, but even the best sometimes get separated from the herd.

Game from last night, I was facing off against a Hunchback, a Raven, and a Cicada. This particular Stalker I specifically made to deal with Lights, having 2LPL, 2MPL, 2ML, and 4SSRMs. Thankfully I had a Catapult soaking up a little fire and both of us were focusing enough fire on the Hunchback to keep it moving (and inaccurate).

But while I was doing that, the Raven was trying to stay just to my front-side, plinking at me. I took a second to slice off a leg, then alpha'd them into the ground. The CDA was moving a bit more, but a few hits on the side and it had to run, then I could focus everything on that HBK.

So my point is that if both the Raven and the Cicada had stayed behind me and focused on one rear torso, I would have been toast, but since they were both running around me in circles, it was easy enough to take a small break from my slugfest to remind them I knew they were there. Thing with the lights is that they can't take too many reminders before they're plowing up the dirt and pushing up daisies.

Edited by Dawnstealer, 21 May 2013 - 07:40 AM.