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Lb 10-X Ac (Post May 21St Patch)


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#1 Svalfangr

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 08:50 AM

I must say the spread reduction was a great start, however I still feel that the damage per pellet needs to increase to something around 1.5 to 1.75.

Any before everyone starts crying " HERP DERP IS THE LB10X 10 IS THE DAMAGER HERP DE DERP" Lets just go ahead and realize that the 10 in the name refers to the pellets the gun shoots,

IF you dont believe me http://www.sarna.net/wiki/LB_20-X Thats the LB 20-X AC and guess what IT FIRES 20 PELLETS!!

Also i realize a lot of people want this gun to have interchangeable ammo types (READ: Slugs and buckshot) However PGI has allready stated that ammo types are far down the line and this is a simple change that could be rolled out in a hotfix.

#2 ThinkTank

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 09:04 AM

The number has always referred to the damage at 1 point per pellet. not the number of pellets. It doesnt fire 10 slugs when loaded with slug shot. For the AC20 and other AC weapons, The number reflects the damage done over each 10 second turn. Fluff states that different manufacturers have different types of shot groupings. For example, one AC20 may shoot 5 projectiles doing 4 damage over each turn or 2 shots doing 10 damage over each turn. Herp Derp indeed

#3 Svalfangr

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 09:40 AM

View PostThinkTank, on 22 May 2013 - 09:04 AM, said:

The number has always referred to the damage at 1 point per pellet. not the number of pellets. It doesnt fire 10 slugs when loaded with slug shot. For the AC20 and other AC weapons, The number reflects the damage done over each 10 second turn. Fluff states that different manufacturers have different types of shot groupings. For example, one AC20 may shoot 5 projectiles doing 4 damage over each turn or 2 shots doing 10 damage over each turn. Herp Derp indeed

Its this kind of fail logic that will lead this game to its untimely end.

It is sad that you are a so called "founder" and would continue to let a weapon be broken simply because you want the 10 in its name to represent the damage it does.

#4 ThinkTank

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 09:44 AM

I didn't say anything pro or con about changing damage values. I replied to your wrong information and condescending attitude.

#5 Eleshod

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 09:49 AM

View PostSvalfangr, on 22 May 2013 - 09:40 AM, said:

Its this kind of fail logic that will lead this game to its untimely end.

It is sad that you are a so called "founder" and would continue to let a weapon be broken simply because you want the 10 in its name to represent the damage it does.


Way to have a debate/discussion about your topic and insult anyone that disagrees with you. We're off to a great start, ill be following this topic as I suspect jersey shore type idiocy and hilarity to ensue.

#6 Svalfangr

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 09:53 AM

View PostEleshod, on 22 May 2013 - 09:49 AM, said:


Way to have a debate/discussion about your topic and insult anyone that disagrees with you. We're off to a great start, ill be following this topic as I suspect jersey shore type idiocy and hilarity to ensue.

Calls out someone for insulting ignoring the fact that the person was insulted first and follows it up with an insult.

You sir, are truly everything wrong with humanity.

#7 Monky

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 09:58 AM

Please stop. All of you.

#8 General Taskeen

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 10:00 AM

Svalfangr, its better to ignore the trolls under the bridge.

And yes, pellet damage should be increased. Practically every Mech Warrior game has better LB-X series cannons than this game. And how did they do it?
  • The intended (enhanced) range is made an advantage (all or most pellets hit at the enhanced range)
  • Pellet damage was increased to help keep the LB-X cluster round effective/competitive
The pellet damage should be increased anywhere between 1.2 or 1.8, with incremental adjustments to find the right damage.



The next factor is how to balance an LB-X by also keeping its regular AC counterpart useful in the game if an LB-X could potentially do even more damage than an AC regular shell?
  • Make LB-X guns fire slower (High Burst Damage)
  • AC's remain faster firing (High DPS)
Its really that simple.

Edited by General Taskeen, 22 May 2013 - 10:08 AM.


#9 ThinkTank

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 10:17 AM

View PostSvalfangr, on 22 May 2013 - 09:53 AM, said:

Calls out someone for insulting ignoring the fact that the person was insulted first and follows it up with an insult.

You sir, are truly everything wrong with humanity.


Lolwhut?

#10 Svalfangr

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 10:32 AM

View PostGeneral Taskeen, on 22 May 2013 - 10:00 AM, said:

Svalfangr, its better to ignore the trolls under the bridge.

And yes, pellet damage should be increased. Practically every Mech Warrior game has better LB-X series cannons than this game. And how did they do it?
  • The intended (enhanced) range is made an advantage (all or most pellets hit at the enhanced range)
  • Pellet damage was increased to help keep the LB-X cluster round effective/competitive
The pellet damage should be increased anywhere between 1.2 or 1.8, with incremental adjustments to find the right damage.




The next factor is how to balance an LB-X by also keeping its regular AC counterpart useful in the game if an LB-X could potentially do even more damage than an AC regular shell?
  • Make LB-X guns fire slower (High Burst Damage)
  • AC's remain faster firing (High DPS)
Its really that simple.


At the very least this thread was worth it for this post.

Very well thought out and i agree wholeheartedly.

#11 N a p e s

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 10:39 AM

I've been saying for a while that the LB series of autocannons should have a higher ROF (while keeping the number as a reference to the total damage) to make up for the damage spread. The advantage to this is knocking the enemy around as much as possible and throwing off their aim.

The idea of switching that around and lowering the ROF but increasing the damage per pellet isn't a bad one either. High burst total damage with some spread onto multiple sections at the expense of having to rename this weapon's category by number of pellets. Either idea is fine by me so long as there is some sort of buff.

Another idea that has crossed my mind is adjusting the potential for knocking over mechs with ballistics weapons that could be reintroduced with collisions. LBs could have an extra bonus for this sort of thing but it might be tricky to balance so its probably not the best idea.

#12 Soy

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 11:04 AM

If I'm not mistaken, the ROF has been increased. As in, it fires faster.

But what do I know.

#13 MustrumRidcully

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 11:15 AM

I vote for changing the name of auto-cannons so we don't have to worry about the number anymore.

AC/2: Small Auto-Cannon
AC/5: Medium Auto-Cannon
AC/10: Heavy Auto-Cannon
AC/20: Assault Auto-Cannon
UAC/5: Medium Ultra AUto-Cannon
LBX-10: Heavy LBX Auto-Cannon

Optional:
Machine Gun: XS Auto-Cannon

Future:
Light AC/2: Small Light Auto-Cannon

Finally, we can forget all that nonsense about "Infantry weapon" "but there is a 20 in its name, it stands for damage" and all that. Just give the weapon the stats they need to be worth the crit slots and weight they take.

View PostSoy, on 22 May 2013 - 11:04 AM, said:

If I'm not mistaken, the ROF has been increased. As in, it fires faster.

But what do I know.

No, that was the AC/5.

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 22 May 2013 - 11:16 AM.


#14 Soy

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 11:16 AM

You sure?

Ima log in record a couple shots and compare to pre-patch clip from this weekend, will report back soon.

#15 MustrumRidcully

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 11:18 AM

View PostSoy, on 22 May 2013 - 11:16 AM, said:

You sure?

Ima log in record a couple shots and compare to pre-patch clip from this weekend, will report back soon.

That's what the patch notes, said; IIRC. Could of course be that they forgot to mention further changes. But I checked on smurfy.net, and IIRC, he updates his data pretty soon after the patch. The PPC changes for example are listed.

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 22 May 2013 - 11:18 AM.


#16 Soy

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 11:23 AM

Yeah you're right it's just 2.5s in between reloads still, just checked a clip from prepatch and one from last night.

I think it's cuz the PPC slowdown threw my equilibrium out of wack.

Regardless, the feeling you get shooting it is much more... responsive. I dunno, just 'feels' better when pulling the trigger. Probably a combo of PPC timer throwing me off and the new punchy feel of the wep.

Regardless I think the weps better and its always been fun. Now it's even more fun!

Edited by Soy, 22 May 2013 - 11:23 AM.


#17 Sturmforge

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 11:31 AM

Since there is convergence in this game why could we not do something similar for the LB-X. Like a variable choke, meaning that what ever range the reticule is on it tightens up the group for that range up to its effective range.

#18 MasterErrant

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 12:15 PM

View PostSturmforge, on 22 May 2013 - 11:31 AM, said:

Since there is convergence in this game why could we not do something similar for the LB-X. Like a variable choke, meaning that what ever range the reticule is on it tightens up the group for that range up to its effective range.


that's probably what it should be or a proximity based dispersal system. it's the only way the cluster rounds would have the same range as solids. (in our house rules for TT LB10-X had 4/8/12 range with cluster and it's regular range with solid.
till someone figured out the choke thing. we just couldn't see the longer range.)

the only change needed to ballistics is ther the DPS needs to be proportional to the relative damage. IE the ac2 needs to have 1/10th the dps of the AC20. that and extreme range (beyond long range) Accuracy needs a nerf.

Edited by MasterErrant, 22 May 2013 - 12:15 PM.


#19 Roland

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 12:18 PM

in MW4, the LBX10 did 14 damage, and the LBX20 did 24, but their damage decreased with range.

In MWO, you could increase the damage per pellet to 1.5-2 or so, and you'd actually have a very interesting weapon.. at long range, it'd be worse than an AC10, but at point blank range it'd be much better.

Which is really the whole point of having different weapons.

The idea that the LBX10 will be fixed simply by adjusting the spread is misguided, because doing so merely makes it more and more like the AC10. It's eliminating what makes the LBX different and interesting.

#20 N a p e s

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Posted 22 May 2013 - 12:23 PM

View PostRoland, on 22 May 2013 - 12:18 PM, said:

in MW4, the LBX10 did 14 damage, and the LBX20 did 24, but their damage decreased with range.

In MWO, you could increase the damage per pellet to 1.5-2 or so, and you'd actually have a very interesting weapon.. at long range, it'd be worse than an AC10, but at point blank range it'd be much better.

Which is really the whole point of having different weapons.

The idea that the LBX10 will be fixed simply by adjusting the spread is misguided, because doing so merely makes it more and more like the AC10. It's eliminating what makes the LBX different and interesting.


Quoted for truth.

Its also the reason I feel that just giving the LB slugs pretty useless.





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