204 replies to this topic

[AntiCitizenJuan]

Make the AWS the only Assault besides the Victor able to go faster than 60kph.

As in, all other assaults wont go 60, even when speed tweaked.

Or an all out remodel.

I like Sephlock's idea too.

[aniviron]

AntiCitizenJuan, on 18 June 2013 - 10:45 PM, said:

Make the AWS the only Assault besides the Victor able to go faster than 60kph.

As in, all other assaults wont go 60, even when speed tweaked.

Or an all out remodel.

I like Sephlock's idea too.

Speaking of the Victor, let's talk about what's going to happen in two months.

Two months from today, the Victor will be out.


Every Victor has the same tonnage as the aws, and presumably will have the same number of hardpoints, given that the aws hasn't exactly been generously graced with plenty of them.
Every Victor has a 320 stock engine. This means every single victor will be as fast as the aws 9m.
Every Victor has jumpjets. This makes it significantly more mobile than the aws; at least jump sniping won't be a worry.
Every Victor will have the same firepower capability as the aws, given the hardpoint counts on possible variants.
Every Victor will have better hitboxes than the aws. I know this because it will not be possible for them to be worse.

August looks to be an extinction-class event for the venerable vanguard of battletech lore.

[Deadmeat313]

I think the biggest problem with the Awesome is MechLab. If we couldn't freely strip out all the components and replace them as we pleased then the AWS would be the only PPC boat in the game.

Facing a Victor that has an AC20 and an SRM4 in my 3 PPC AWS? "Come at me bro."

[Soy]

They don't need a buff, the buff is learning to soak damage correctly in such a big mech, cuz vast majority of MWO players develop offensive skills and not defensive skills. Quick question - how many of you have ever walked out into a match with purposefully gimp wep systems, in order to practice defensive skills only? Yeah, not many. I don't blame ppl either, we all want to have fun and standing around with 2 MGs or a flamer usually isn't conducive to having a blast or getting a few kills either.

I will be honest and say I do worry about the AWS after the Quickdraw, Victor, and Orion. Where will its place be? Maybe then I can see it having some sort of uniqueness out of necessity.

Edited by Soy, 19 June 2013 - 03:56 AM.

[Lightfoot]

@Soy

Not so. In my examinations the Awesome is the only mech that can't shrink it's Center Torso target area by turning sideways. The Awesome's CT projects forward and the side faces, which are Side Torso sections on other Assaults, are also counted as the CT on the Awesome. So, turning the mech does not shrink the CT and to cover the CT with the arms, you need to turn the mech's torso 112-120 degrees. That's a Master ability for the Awesome.

An easy and reasonable fix for the Awesome would be to have the aforementioned side faces count as Side Torso hitboxes like they do on other assaults. Of course that makes the Side Torso too big so the arm hitboxes need to be expanded also, which is logical considering the oversized shoulders and armor pauldrons of the Awesome visual model.

After playing in the Awesome for 2 weeks (I have mastered the Awesome many times over, PB, 9M included) and getting blown to bits in any vanguard combat, I took a heavy mech with an AC20 and 2 PPCs and started getting 3 kills and 3-4 assists in every match on average. That is what vanguard does, with luck of course (and the Awesome's ELO). The heavy mech was also slower than the Awesomes I was using.

Edited by Lightfoot, 19 June 2013 - 08:56 AM.

[aniviron]

Lightfoot, on 19 June 2013 - 08:53 AM, said:

@Soy

Not so. In my examinations the Awesome is the only mech that can't shrink it's Center Torso target area by turning sideways. The Awesome's CT projects forward and the side faces, which are Side Torso sections on other Assaults, are also counted as the CT on the Awesome. So, turning the mech does not shrink the CT and to cover the CT with the arms, you need to turn the mech's torso 112-120 degrees. That's a Master ability for the Awesome.

An easy and reasonable fix for the Awesome would be to have the aforementioned side faces count as Side Torso hitboxes like they do on other assaults. Of course that makes the Side Torso too big so the arm hitboxes need to be expanded also, which is logical considering the oversized shoulders and armor pauldrons of the Awesome visual model.

After playing in the Awesome for 2 weeks (I have mastered the Awesome many times over, PB, 9M included) and getting blown to bits in any vanguard combat, I took a heavy mech with an AC20 and 2 PPCs and started getting 3 kills and 3-4 assists in every match on average. That is what vanguard does, with luck of course (and the Awesome's ELO). The heavy mech was also slower than the Awesomes I was using.

For everyone's convenience, I have done some hitbox testing. Here is an awesome from the side, displaying how to core an awesome while it is facing perpendicular to you.

[Soy]

You have to turn slightly more then, it would depend on the angle and momentum of both players in question.

I mean dude, you'll never be able to entirely shield any particular thing unless the player is on the other side, etc.

Even then, I've been 'cored' by **** that hits front side when I'm showing backside perfectly 180, etc.

A good shot is a good shot.

Edited by Soy, 20 June 2013 - 05:20 PM.

[aniviron]

Soy, on 20 June 2013 - 05:19 PM, said:

You have to turn slightly more then, it would depend on the angle and momentum of both players in question.

I mean dude, you'll never be able to entirely shield any particular thing unless the player is on the other side, etc.

Even then, I've been 'cored' by **** that hits front side when I'm showing backside perfectly 180, etc.

A good shot is a good shot.

I don't have the image taken (I can go make one if you want) but moving any further back means I can rip into the awesome's rear armor instead. Getting cored from a massive rear ct is just as bad as getting cored from a massive front ct.

I agree, good shots are good shots. My point is, there have been a lot of suggestions in this thread, "oh just turn your arms and you will never take damage, l2p!" But given the opponents I tend to face, turnining sideways does nothing. The much-vaunted arm shields help a little, but given the fact that I am not returning fire (and my opponent knows it) while I am turned away, they take advantage of that time to tear me open, and not in the arm.

[Soy]

You seriously think it does nothing? You're nuts...

[Jiffy]

Soy, on 19 June 2013 - 03:54 AM, said:

They don't need a buff, the buff is learning to soak damage correctly in such a big mech, cuz vast majority of MWO players develop offensive skills and not defensive skills. Quick question - how many of you have ever walked out into a match with purposefully gimp wep systems, in order to practice defensive skills only? Yeah, not many. I don't blame ppl either, we all want to have fun and standing around with 2 MGs or a flamer usually isn't conducive to having a blast or getting a few kills either.

I will be honest and say I do worry about the AWS after the Quickdraw, Victor, and Orion. Where will its place be? Maybe then I can see it having some sort of uniqueness out of necessity.

I'm sorry, but just because the tremendous flaws of this mech can be somewhat overcome with a great deal of skill doesn't mean it isn't in need of a buff. It dies more easily from full armor than a Hunchback. It also dies more easily than a Cataphract from full armor, and the Cataphract is notoriously easy to core due to its hitboxes. It doesn't matter how much you twist your torso in an attempt to mitigate damage-- it's such a large target with obviously defined hitboxes that make it comparatively easier to hit than other mechs. It helps, but it's not usually going to extend your longevity by much. I really think the proof that it's in need of a buff is the simple fact that mechs of a lower weight class can perform its role better. Additionally, I use the word "role" very loosely, as the Awesome has been shoved away to perform long range fire support rather than vanguard / brawling (its original intended role), because it can't perform its intended role as well as other mechs either.

[Soy]

I don't think arbitrary buffs are the best solution for an underpowered mech...

...the solution should be more innovative...

...also, dude if you think the Phract is notoriously easy to core... I mean, that's down to the fact that most 3D pilots were flavor bandwagoners and weren't masters of that particular mech... I think Phract is one of the most tanky mechs in the game at the moment, it's no Centurion, but it's definitely able to soak like a ****.

Edited by Soy, 21 June 2013 - 10:55 AM.

[NRP]

At this point, PGI should just rename it Assome and be done with it. At least then noobs will know at a glance what they're dealing with.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Let's face it guys, there is absolutely nothing that can be done to fix the Awesome's shortcomings in the scope of MWO. The mech was designed for a table top game that used dice to randomly determine hit locations and the art was drawn up to look "cool". It was never concieved that it would be used or effective in a "simulated" gameplay situation or it would have been shaped a heck of alot different. You also can't give them special rules that apply only to the Awesome.

Same goes with alot of mechs of course. For example if the Catapult was real and designed by say Lockheed-Martin or General Dynamics, they I strongly doubt they would have centered the most vulnerable part of a mech, the cockpit at the exact center of the CT where everyone would instinctively aim.

Therefore if you want to use an Awesome, you just sort of got to roll with the punches. Also some people still like and enjoy the Awesome as is.

Note: I guess they could go as far as completely redesigning the mech and making it a "reseen" version that only bears general resemblance to the original art. It would probably look something like a Thug to be honest. But if they were going that far, it would be just better to introduce the Thug as a new chassis.

[xRatas]

Shave off 10 tons, add variety to torso hardpoints, make another PPC arm, change looks a little bit and call it a Warhammer. Fixed.

Give 9Q variant with ECM and 4 PPC loadout, I'd love that.

5PPC 8Q is quite serious thing already though, it has been solid sniper far before PPC's went popular. Too bad it is about the only assault that gets hit with the nerfbat if new heat system goes online, as it just can not mount gauss instead of extra PPC's.

[TheMadPoet]

While my 8R can be frustrating, I actually love my Awesome. It does need a smaller CT hitbox and possibly a bigger max engine allowance. I did some Testing Ground testing, on the Awesome that appears in the Caustic Valley scenario, and noticed that hitting it from squarely behind damaged both the rear and front CT, and hitting one shoulder somehow damaged that torso and both arms. I think it definitely could use a hitbox adjustment. Other than that..it's a decent mech that takes some "skill" and patience to play.

[Sephlock]

The simplest solution would be to re-size the hitboxes like they did with the Raven. Just make more of that huge body count as left and right torsos, and/or make more of the outer edges of the torsos count as part of their respective arms.

It's not a perfect solution but it has been done before for a different mech (albeit for different reasons).

[Skyfaller]

They could give the arms shields so a side shot hits the shield instead of the torso/ct.

But the main problem is just how wide its front/rear aspect is. There's nothing that can be done about that other than make the mech slump forward when moving so as to minimize its frontal aspect.

[Sephlock]

Skyfaller, on 21 June 2013 - 04:26 PM, said:

They could give the arms shields so a side shot hits the shield instead of the torso/ct.

But the main problem is just how wide its front/rear aspect is. There's nothing that can be done about that other than make the mech slump forward when moving so as to minimize its frontal aspect.

I'm sorry, but that just conjured up an imagine of an Awesome with bad posture hunching over to shield itself from the rain.

*Aww, I couldn't find a clip or pic of that one scene in Halo where it's raining and you see Jackals using their shields as Umbrellas*

Edited by Sephlock, 21 June 2013 - 04:29 PM.

[80Bit]

Give it a 10% reduction to energy weapon heat generation.

[oldradagast]

I don't understand why people are defending the current state of the Awesome, basically saying, "learn to play!"

The mech has serious problems. It does not live up to the lore, it is not properly filling its role - or any role - in the game, and the mech sees little play even at the PUG level, and none in serious competition.

The problems - namely that of the over-sized hitboxes - have been clearly identified. I have doubts anything will be done, which is a shame since the Awesome is a solid mech (in theory) and it's a shame to have the work put into creating it completely wasted. That being said, while the best players can make an Awesome work as well as anything, they would probably do even better in a properly designed mech, and average players will have their heads handed to them if they use the Awesome in its current state, which does nothing but tick off new players who waste a bunch of in-game money to buy a "useless" mech. I'm not saying it IS useless, but if it feels that way, it may as well be, and that will just discourage people.

I can't imagine fixing the hitboxes is a complex task, so we'll see if anything is done about it.

Edited by oldradagast, 23 June 2013 - 05:42 AM.