204 replies to this topic

[Adridos]

Wraith 1, on 25 May 2013 - 11:09 AM, said:

I've never thought that the Awesome's greatest strength was in it's heavy energy payload, but in the fact that it is an assault that moves like a medium. Or at least, it should.

I'd be very pleased if you provided source, or at least the train of thought behind Awesome being an assault that is as fast as a medium.

Victor Morson, on 25 May 2013 - 11:09 AM, said:

It is unfortunate that this basically means the Awesome's niche in MW:O is the "Fast assault" and not the supreme PPC sniper. Quirks really are the cure, though.

I'm not exactly confident in quirks, really.

Say, they implement the better heat dissipation quirk that you are proposing. Would it make Awesome a viable PPC boating alternative to Stalker, which would still obviously come on top in a 1 on 1 engagement and also be of better use to the team since it gurantees enemy going down while the Awesome must survive long enough to do so. But since it is made a walking bullseye by default, chances of it getting off enough shots before getting torn asunder by the Stalker on the other team are very, very slim.

Edited by Adridos, 25 May 2013 - 11:20 AM.

[Taemien]

Easy fix. Make it the desirable PPC boat.

With the proposed changes that penalize players for firing multiple weapons of the same type in a short amount of time. The Awesome could simply be given a quirk that allows for it to ignore much of those penalties. Making it so that a Stalker isn't capable of firing 4 PPCs like the Awesome can. This way while players can still use the Stalker to fire multitudes of weapons (SRMs, Lasers, and LRMs), to get a sniper platform that works well, the Awesome will be the go to mech.

Due to its limitations it already has now, it will not be OP to have that 40pt long range alphastrike, it will be expected to have that. And will live up to its namesake.

[Victor Morson]

Adridos, on 25 May 2013 - 11:15 AM, said:

Say, they implement the better heat dissipation quirk that you are proposing. Would it make Awesome a viable PPC boating alternative to Stalker, which would still obviously come on top in a 1 on 1 engagement and also be of better use to the team since it gurantees enemy going down while the Awesome must survive long enough to do so. But since it is made a walking bullseye by default, chances of it getting off enough shots before getting torn asunder by the Stalker on the other team are very, very slim.

What is not likely to change is the role of the Awesome: A 80+ KPH assault with the 9M or PB. Sadly I think the buffs would have to exceed 10% on the other Awesomes with energy weapons/PPCs in order to make it a viable slow assault to match the Stalker.

That said, this would make the 9M an extremely viable alternative to the Stalker and maybe help it's massive inferiority compared to the Highlander.

[Wraith 1]

Adridos, on 25 May 2013 - 11:15 AM, said:

I'd be very pleased if you provided source, or at least the train of thought behind Awesome being an assault that is as fast as a medium.

I never used the word "fast", I was talking about turning speed and acceleration.

As a Jenner pilot, a good AWS is already my least favorite assault to run into. It would be a beast if it was a bit more agile.

[WolvesX]

So we can agree on a bonus like +15%/+20% heat dispersion, +25%/+50% heat threshold?

Or if caulculating the speed, -15 tons weight of something?

Edited by WolvesX, 25 May 2013 - 12:00 PM.

[Victor Morson]

WolvesX, on 25 May 2013 - 11:59 AM, said:

So we can agree on a bonus like +15%/+20% heat dispersion, +25%/+50% heat threshold?

Or if caulculating the speed, -15 tons weight of something?

I think buffing general heat dispersion very much would be a huge mistake. Maybe on a REALLY weak variant that needs help.

I'd rather see the Awesome take a flat total off the top of specific weapons; either very specific (PPC and Large Laser) or generalized ("Energy weapons").

i.e. firing a PPC with an Awesome results in 10% less heat than firing it with a Highlander. If I fire an LRM from an Awesome, in that case, I am still eating regular heat. I'd even take combinations of that - like 5% less heat from energy weapons overall, 15% less heat from PPCs specifically.

..

The main thinking there is that if you were to offer such sweeping bonuses, it wouldn't actually improve the problem. A overall heat bonus wouldn't push it towards any specific roles, but advantages to specific guns and gun classes sure would. This also wouldn't restrict people from freedom in the Mechlab, but rather, just offer ways to optimize your designs.

Funky builds can still happen and aren't really nerf'ed, you give 'mechs more personality and style and you increase diversity all in one with this IMO. I know I'd steer towards optimizing 'mechs towards their best roles!

Edited by Victor Morson, 25 May 2013 - 12:12 PM.

[John MatriX82]

I keep proposing a tweak to the hitboxes of the side torsoes like this:


If the upper part of the side torso (the shoulder that highlights in the mechlab when you select the arm) could be splitted from the side torso and made part of the arm hitbox, the chassis survivability would at least be fairly better. Side torsoes would be smaller, you'd trade away arms resistance, but once the arm is blown off, any shot in that shoulder is registered as an arm hit, therefore it will transfer only 50% of the intaken dmg to the side torso. By the way, you also get stuck everywhere with it and you can't step over places that you can easily climb with even medium mechs, probably there's something to be done with the leg physics model.

Otherwise.. oh well change the whole mech completely it's simply too big. It doesn't matter how much the engine rating or quirks can be given to it, it's too wide. The Victor will totally overshadow the Awesome, even the faster variants :/

Edited by John MatriX82, 25 May 2013 - 12:12 PM.

[Vercinaigh]

A larger engine size for the non 9m's, the 9m is fine, 350 rating would be acceptable.

Edited by Vercinaigh, 25 May 2013 - 12:13 PM.

[shotokan5]

They should take and show the awesome some love. Yes, it can carry an army or PPC's, but it turns slower than a bus is easy to hit than a dead whale. I hope the developers in the future give it a kick start.

[Zyllos]

Any of my changes do not pertain directly to Awesomes.

My proposals are that since certain mechanics are poorly done or broken, this makes the Awesome not a viable mech.

pin point convergence
too lenient hardpoint system
poor DHS system (inside/outside engine)
no tonnage limits
too high RoF

[Soy]

WolvesX, on 25 May 2013 - 11:59 AM, said:

So we can agree on a bonus like +15%/+20% heat dispersion, +25%/+50% heat threshold?

Or if caulculating the speed, -15 tons weight of something?

NO, WE CAN NOT AGREE ON GIVING RANDOM MECHS ARBITRARY BONUSES JUST CUZ YOU PERCEIVE WEAKNESS IN THE CHASSIS.

[Deathlike]

Speed engine buff for non-9M/PB variants... at least set them to 325 (to keep pace for the future Victor, which stock engine IS the 320).

The Arm hitboxes need to be buffed so that they are Centurion-like, large and great shields.

The CT hitbox could be made larger.. and the side torsos smaller to make XL engines more viable.

As I said in a different Awesome buff thread, these changes would make the mech become THE AWESOME DRAGON CENTURION.

Edited by Deathlike, 25 May 2013 - 02:23 PM.

[Soy]

The arms already are great shields. In 9M/PB. Cuz engine size.

Engine size is the only thing I would see being tweaked regarding Awesomes. Again, 9M and PB are fine. Other Awesomes shouldn't go as fast cuz they have better hardpoints/symmetry.

[MonkeyCheese]

Drive only the 9m or the baby cus of the speeds = problem solved

[Featherwood]

I don't see viable options to make Awesome live longer with current hitboxes and armour cap in current meta. I don't see either big shift in survivability after hitboxes adjustment, instead I see another path. Make Awesome 80t glasscannon by granting some offensive quirks for PPC, LRM rate of fire for example. Heat dissipation quirk has no 'spirit' in it, IMO.

Another way is to persuade PGI to change meta and, what's most important, change HardPoints mechanic toward MW4 like one, with weapons size restrictions. That should decrease volume of fire per match and increase importance of tactical actions, as I see it.

[Corvus Antaka]

John MatriX82, on 25 May 2013 - 12:11 PM, said:

I keep proposing a tweak to the hitboxes of the side torsoes like this:


If the upper part of the side torso (the shoulder that highlights in the mechlab when you select the arm) could be splitted from the side torso and made part of the arm hitbox, the chassis survivability would at least be fairly better. Side torsoes would be smaller, you'd trade away arms resistance, but once the arm is blown off, any shot in that shoulder is registered as an arm hit, therefore it will transfer only 50% of the intaken dmg to the side torso. By the way, you also get stuck everywhere with it and you can't step over places that you can easily climb with even medium mechs, probably there's something to be done with the leg physics model.

Otherwise.. oh well change the whole mech completely it's simply too big. It doesn't matter how much the engine rating or quirks can be given to it, it's too wide. The Victor will totally overshadow the Awesome, even the faster variants :/

I like this because giving mechs more unique hitboxes after playing and observing them for some time would be a great way to mix things up and quirk out each mech.

[Hayashi]

Victor Morson, on 25 May 2013 - 11:09 AM, said:

I think the Awesome should gain a quirk to produce less heat when firing energy weapons. Just like 5-10%. Instantly it would have a niche over the Stalker just on that merit alone.

I think it'd be a great way to push classic roles, without stiffing creativity and it could apply to a lot of 'mechs. Slight buffs to, say, lock time on a Catapult or Ballistic Velocity on the Jaggermech.. maybe even recycles on specific weapons, like buffing the AC/20 on the original Hunchback nobody uses now. You could even expand this beyond guns - say, make the Raven ECM have 10% more range.

Just make some chassis & variant 5-10% better at a specific weapons or equipment and you make a huge impact to how people will play those variants, without actually forcing huge sweeping changes to anything.



For all your complaining, the Awesome is pretty much run as a massive PPC boat with a better engine in it. Mechlab is not the problem.

Though, I will admit, the Awesome 9M is effectively a Charger wearing an Awesome's skin.

It is unfortunate that this basically means the Awesome's niche in MW:O is the "Fast assault" and not the supreme PPC sniper. Quirks really are the cure, though.

This is a really good idea to me...

Maybe a -10% heat generation from Energy weapons only so that while the Stalker has greater alpha potential, the Awesome has higher sustained damage?

I could see how adding similar quirks might change other mechs a bit. -10% cooldown rate on short-ranged weapons for Dragons to encourage brawling behaviour, -5% damage received on the Hunchback so it becomes a bit more of a tank, +15% radar range and +10% target retention on Ravens so they act more like scouts, -20% drain rate on Jump Jets on spiders so they fly for a longer time, +10% effective ammo per ton on missiles for Catapults... etc etc.

Edited by Hayashi, 25 May 2013 - 03:12 PM.

[Umbra8]

The main drawback of the Awesome right now is that it is essentially a barn door with legs. If you cant hit that thing when it's running at you it's time to turn in your mechwarrior licence and take up macramé. Given that it's going to get shot anyway some minor adjustment to the hitboxes would help spread the damage and give it more survivability.

One of the advantages of the Awesome is it tends to be one of the fastest Assaults I run into on the field. I find I have to focus down that huge wall of a torso as I know I'm unlikely to manoeuvre away without taking a punishing amount of damage.

Fixing the current damage levels on SRM's would also make some variants a bit more of a beast.

*edited to change a simile to a metaphor

Edited by Umbra8, 25 May 2013 - 03:13 PM.

[Wildstreak]

Which looks better, this?
http://mwomercs.com/...emech-8-awesome

Or this?
https://mwtactics.co...-3D-Bio-Awesome

As for Stalkers, this?
http://mwomercs.com/...mech-12-stalker

Or this?
https://mwtactics.co...-3D-Bio-Stalker

[AntiCitizenJuan]

Merchant, on 25 May 2013 - 03:12 PM, said:

Which looks better, this?
http://mwomercs.com/...emech-8-awesome

Or this?
https://mwtactics.co...-3D-Bio-Awesome

As for Stalkers, this?
http://mwomercs.com/...mech-12-stalker

Or this?
https://mwtactics.co...-3D-Bio-Stalker

As much as I would love them to redo Awesomes and Stalkers, I feel they wont.
it would be nice if they trimmed up the torso like in the concept art, the Awesome would be a little less fat.

Plus Stalkers should be much bigger, idc what PGI says, theyre too small.
Make the Awesome, and soon the Victor, the only Assault mechs capable of going over 60KPH.
Simple, clean, to the point.

Edited by AntiCitizenJuan, 25 May 2013 - 03:20 PM.